Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

[Goliath]

How do you love If GOD has not first put the love In you?

There it is....That's the whole truth!! SeedTimeHarvest..you're beautiful!!


The New Covenant teachings are centered upon the healing of our hearts.
God can not command us to love him and our neighbor.
Why?
Because we were born in his image!!!

So why do we sin?
When Adam and Eve sinned...sin became our master.
Well it didn't happen quite that fast..but over a few generations, when the Sons of God (Those who had come from the Garden of Eden) had children with the daughters of men, God simply let man do whatever their wretched hearts wanted to do.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves.
(Romans 1:24)

So, in order for is to keep Gods commandments, AKA do what is righteous......we need a New Heart.
The hearts we were born with Hate God and hate his righteousness. This is what Paul was writing about in (Romans 1:22-31), and this is what is marriage analogy is about in (Romans 7)
So...how does God change our hearts?
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7)

Why did Jesus have to die on the cross, if the Law is perfect?
Because the forgiveness and cleansing of sin, which we need to walk in the light, was only afforded to us though his sacrifice. God wouldn't accept any other...(Hebrews 10:5-8)
Without his sacrifice, the Law wouldn't do us any good.

 

[Grandpa]

Maybe you all are getting to the same place but from different angles?

I'll be honest this thread has become confusing.

We will be clothed in Christ's righteousness in heaven and not our own, and it's not our righteousness that saves us, salvation is by faith alone.

But faith is never alone - works follow faith from a Spirit of love and gratitude for what was done in our stead.

Those works automatically include doing the things God loves and eschewing the things God hates.

We aren't going to gossip, fornicate, commit adultery, run out and kill random people etc etc if we truly love God and have His Holy Spirit inside us.

There's nothing to hate about God's law, as they are born of His nature, a nature we do our best to emulate, however faultily...

We can keep the Spirit of the law, so long as we eschew the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

We only fail when we try in our flesh. So it's not the law at fault but our flesh, and under the New Covenant we have this great gift in order to help us be overcomers.. we may stumble and we may falter, but if we have the Spirit of God inside us we will always get back up.

Yes. The Law itself is holy and good.

But we aren't.

The Lord says without Him we can do nothing. Doesn't that make our "emulation", no matter how well intended, to be of no use and ultimately rags before God?

Shouldn't you crave and search for the Real Thing instead of this false construct that the religious understanding has designed and built? Not saying its all false. There's a little truth sprinkled in here and there...

 

[Grandpa]

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Why are you hung up on the 10 commandments without reference to the many more commandments in scripture?

What do you follow for righteous guidance if not God's commandments?

What will God use for judgement for us?

You make no sense.

Scriptures refutes you 1000%

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Looks like maybe a little lower than 1000%...


What you meant to say was the scripture I posted refutes your understanding 1000%



God will use the 10 commandments to judge you because that is what you use to judge yourself and others.

There is no point in God using the 10 commandments to judge me because I have been set free from that Law of sin and death. If the 10 commandments were to come out I would just point to my Lord and Saviour who has delivered me from that.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[peldom10]

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


Looks like maybe a little lower than 1000%...


What you meant to say was the scripture I posted refutes your understanding 1000%



God will use the 10 commandments to judge you because that is what you use to judge yourself and others.

There is no point in God using the 10 commandments to judge me because I have been set free from that Law of sin and death. If the 10 commandments were to come out I would just point to my Lord and Saviour who has delivered me from that.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You wish...but, it's not there. None of those support your doctrine.
God's commandments...some 50 or more....are setting a standard for our moral guidance. Why can't you see that?
Since you reject them then you are not a Christian per God's commandments.

Please tell us what standards you follow to be righteous?

What moral standards do you expect God to apply when He judges you...after this physical death?

(This is a new...new age religion teaching...heretofore unseen by me).

 

[peldom10]

Maybe you all are getting to the same place but from different angles?

I'll be honest this thread has become confusing.

We will be clothed in Christ's righteousness in heaven and not our own, and it's not our righteousness that saves us, salvation is by faith alone.

But faith is never alone - works follow faith from a Spirit of love and gratitude for what was done in our stead.

Those works automatically include doing the things God loves and eschewing the things God hates.

We aren't going to gossip, fornicate, commit adultery, run out and kill random people etc etc if we truly love God and have His Holy Spirit inside us.

There's nothing to hate about God's law, as they are born of His nature, a nature we do our best to emulate, however faultily...

We can keep the Spirit of the law, so long as we eschew the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

We only fail when we try in our flesh. So it's not the law at fault but our flesh, and under the New Covenant we have this great gift in order to help us be overcomers.. we may stumble and we may falter, but if we have the Spirit of God inside us we will always get back up.

You cannot apply PC in God's work.

Either you support God's doctrine or you reject God's doctrine of commandments.
There is no one foot on each side of the fence.

 

[peldom10]

There it is....That's the whole truth!! SeedTimeHarvest..you're beautiful!!


The New Covenant teachings are centered upon the healing of our hearts.
God can not command us to love him and our neighbor.
Why?
Because we were born in his image!!!

So why do we sin?
When Adam and Eve sinned...sin became our master.
Well it didn't happen quite that fast..but over a few generations, when the Sons of God (Those who had come from the Garden of Eden) had children with the daughters of men, God simply let man do whatever their wretched hearts wanted to do.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves.
(Romans 1:24)

So, in order for is to keep Gods commandments, AKA do what is righteous......we need a New Heart.
The hearts we were born with Hate God and hate his righteousness. This is what Paul was writing about in (Romans 1:22-31), and this is what is marriage analogy is about in (Romans 7)
So...how does God change our hearts?
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7)

Why did Jesus have to die on the cross, if the Law is perfect?
Because the forgiveness and cleansing of sin, which we need to walk in the light, was only afforded to us though his sacrifice. God wouldn't accept any other...(Hebrews 10:5-8)
Without his sacrifice, the Law wouldn't do us any good.

Not because we were born in His image does He allow us freedom of our actions.......but, because He give us the freedom of doing right or wrong.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You cannot apply PC in God's work.

Either you support God's doctrine or you reject God's doctrine of commandments.
There is no one foot on each side of the fence.

Understand this isn't me playing the politically correct version of scripture. This is simply how I read Scripture to mean, in all honesty.

I believe that we can go too far with law (as in an extreme) and start doing works in our flesh, as well as get too far into a spirituality (that's essentially false), and stop doing the works of God and living the lives God wants us to. The Bible speaks of both negatively.

There's extremes on both sides of the issue that are false and deceiving. As Christians we are called to stand where God has given us to stand. I believe that stand to be in the balance.

 

[peldom10]

timed out....#286.....

We must remember ...in His image...includes being righteous.

 

[peldom10]

Understand this isn't me playing the politically correct version of scripture. This is simply how I read Scripture to mean, in all honesty.

I believe that we can go too far with law (as in an extreme) and start doing works in our flesh, as well as get too far into a spirituality (that's essentially false), and stop doing the works of God and living the lives God wants us to. The Bible speaks of both negatively.

There's extremes on both sides of the issue that are false and deceiving. As Christians we are called to stand where God has given us to stand. I believe that stand to be in the balance.

Nope...there is only one side of this issue...God's.

You are either a new age religion type..or influenced by them.
God's commandments is there for us to follow.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nope...there is only one side of this issue...God's.

You are either a new age religion type..or influenced by them.
God's commandments is there for us to follow.

This may help - https://christianchat.com/threads/is-the-law-of-moses-set-aside.205401/post-4836930

 

[Goliath]

Not because we were born in His image does He allow us freedom of our actions.......but, because He give us the freedom of doing right or wrong.

My point in saying this....
And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
(Matthew 3:9-10

God has created us with Our own Mind...Our own Heart. But when sin came into the world, our hearts and minds were no longer in the image in which God had created them. To be one with God, one with Christ, our heart needs to be changed.

A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them.
(Ezekiel 36:26-27)

 

[DavidTree]

Some Christians believe that the four primary Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were meant for the Jews. Of course, these Gospels are the Gospels in which Jesus teaches and performs His ministry. Some gentile Christians believe that only the New Testament teachings of Paul are meant for them, as Paul was appointed to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.

In a nutshell, some Christians believe that only portions of the New Testament pertain to them. So, when you have differences in what Jesus and Paul teach, then they side with Paul.

Teaching that the Gospels are for the Jews and Paul for the Gentiles is HERESY.

100% HERESY

 

[DavidTree]

A.) The Law is death to all of mankind who are UNABLE to keep it, just as the Word declares.
B.) The Word was God before the world existed = in case you have forgotten this Truth.
C.) The Law was our Tutor to bring us to Messiah.
D.) Now that the WORD has appeared and Finished the Work and brought Salvation = we are no longer under the Law/Tutor/Death.
E.) the Holy Spirit keeps the Law of Messiah alive in our hearts/spirit.
F.) Going back to the Law is seeking to establish your own righteousness before God = MAJOR FAIL resulting in Death
G.) Only those who are led by the Holy Spirit are the true Sons of God.
H.) HalleluYAH and AMEN to all of the above, by the Word of Elohim Father Elohim Son Elohim Holy Spirit who are ONE.

 

[peldom10]

My point in saying this....
And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
(Matthew 3:9-10

God has created us with Our own Mind...Our own Heart. But when sin came into the world, our hearts and minds were no longer in the image in which God had created them. To be one with God, one with Christ, our heart needs to be changed.

A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them.
(Ezekiel 36:26-27)

We each are responsible. God gives us ..."free will"...we must make the choice to apply it properly.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Teaching that the Gospels are for the Jews and Paul for the Gentiles is HERESY.

100% HERESY

I agree with you 100%, clear heresy. Maybe I didn't state my post clearly. But, for a fact I've had the experience to quote Jesus, from the Gospels, and be corrected by a fellow Christian because Paul said something different.

I believe that, if you find differences in the Gospels and Paul's epistles, you are not reading them incorrectly or misinterpreting them. Both the Gospel and Paul's epistles are the Word of God, Jesus, and the Spirit. And they don't contradict each other.

 

[DavidTree]

I agree with you 100%, clear heresy. Maybe I didn't state my post clearly. But, for a fact I've had the experience to quote Jesus, from the Gospels, and be corrected by a fellow Christian because Paul said something different.

I believe that, if you find differences in the Gospels and Paul's epistles, you are not reading them incorrectly or misinterpreting them. Both the Gospel and Paul's epistles are the Word of God, Jesus, and the Spirit. And they don't contradict each other.

i joyfully understand your posts and i was agreeing with you by making the Holy Spirit Bold statement.
PEACE Brother

 

[peldom10]

Teaching that the Gospels are for the Jews and Paul for the Gentiles is HERESY.

100% HERESY

Where...pray tell...did you see that teaching? Is it another ..new age religion...one?

 

[DavidTree]

Where...pray tell...did you see that teaching? Is it another ..new age religion...one?

YES, 100% NEW AGE = all the WAY = NEW AGE

Then Peter said, “See, we have left all and followed You.”
So He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or parents or brothers or wife or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who shall not receive many times more in this present time, and in the age to come eternal life.”
Luke 18:28-30

i confess, i am a New Age prophet declaring the Gospel of the Kingdom of God and His Glorious Age to COME = Return of the KING

 

[Grandpa]

You wish...but, it's not there. None of those support your doctrine.
God's commandments...some 50 or more....are setting a standard for our moral guidance. Why can't you see that?
Since you reject them then you are not a Christian per God's commandments.

Please tell us what standards you follow to be righteous?

What moral standards do you expect God to apply when He judges you...after this physical death?

(This is a new...new age religion teaching...heretofore unseen by me).

Moral standards are your understanding of what you think is needed to ATTAIN righteousness. A man made religious construct of WORKS. Basically a copy of ancient Judaism without the understanding of what Atonement is. Do this and be blessed, don't and be cursed.

I have attained Righteousness the Christian Way. I have RECEIVED it as a gift from God.

This is strange to you. It will continue to be strange to you until you find your need for Christ.


I could keep showing you but I may as well argue with blind men over the color of rainbows.

2 Corinthians 3:14-17
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[peldom10]

Moral standards are your understanding of what you think is needed to ATTAIN righteousness. A man made religious construct of WORKS. Basically a copy of ancient Judaism without the understanding of what Atonement is. Do this and be blessed, don't and be cursed.

I have attained Righteousness the Christian Way. I have RECEIVED it as a gift from God.

This is strange to you. It will continue to be strange to you until you find your need for Christ.


I could keep showing you but I may as well argue with blind men over the color of rainbows.

2 Corinthians 3:14-17
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

LOL...if you can 't read english forget trying to see colors.

You are the only person I have seen call God's word a name. WOW!!