Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

Grandpa · May 2, 2022

You are conflating the commandments of the Lord Jesus with the 10 commandments.

Lots of legalists attempt this.

If the Lord wanted Christians to work at the 10 commandments He would have said so. He would have said "10 commandments" instead of "My Commandments".

And He wouldn't have made Paul an apostle. Paul would have been claimed by Peter and the rest of the apostles to be a false prophet. But none of the apostles ever claimed that.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

What do you do about this? Just ignore it and claim Paul is a false prophet?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Isn't it absolutely AMAZING that people that call themselves Christian have no idea what Christianity is??????

Grandpa · May 2, 2022

peldom10 said:

Gods Law is clearly illuminated for those who have come to Christ and have asked for Wisdom and Knowledge of Christ and their Salvation.

For those who still work at their interpretation of the 10 commandments, and are still under the curse, it is not.

It shouldn't be a new interpretation. The bible is there for everyone to read and to follow Christs Commandments.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That's what the 10 commandments command and why it is a curse to us. And when you find out you can't do it;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's what you need to study and ask questions about. What is this Rest that the Lord Jesus is talking about?

peldom10 · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

Gods Law is clearly illuminated for those who have come to Christ and have asked for Wisdom and Knowledge of Christ and their Salvation.

For those who still work at their interpretation of the 10 commandments, and are still under the curse, it is not.

It shouldn't be a new interpretation. The bible is there for everyone to read and to follow Christs Commandments.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That's what the 10 commandments command and why it is a curse to us. And when you find out you can't do it;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's what you need to study and ask questions about. What is this Rest that the Lord Jesus is talking about?

Thank you for that detail summary. You are correct.

The ......new age religion group.....wishes to degrade God's word and as witnesses for Christ we must be always on guard.

Carry_Your_Name · May 2, 2022

peldom10 said:

Still better than nothing. Most of the modern christian music originated from that period, that's when it became a genre and led many listeners to Christ.

peldom10 · May 2, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:

Can't agree...God says...to the luke warm...I will spew the out of My mouth.

It is rare that the new age religion group is.........luke warm.
Normally cold.

Carry_Your_Name · May 2, 2022

peldom10 said:

How are they labelled New Age? Does any of them follow Marianne Williamson or read A Return to Love? Yes, I know that lyrically, many of these songs are shallow and self-centered, but again, it's better than nothing. This is the only genre of music with a positive, inspiring, hopeful vibe compared to other secular songs.

arthurfleminger · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

You are conflating the commandments of the Lord Jesus with the 10 commandments.

Lots of legalists attempt this.

If the Lord wanted Christians to work at the 10 commandments He would have said so. He would have said "10 commandments" instead of "My Commandments".

And He wouldn't have made Paul an apostle. Paul would have been claimed by Peter and the rest of the apostles to be a false prophet. But none of the apostles ever claimed that.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

What do you do about this? Just ignore it and claim Paul is a false prophet?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Isn't it absolutely AMAZING that people that call themselves Christian have no idea what Christianity is??????

Jesus did/did not abolish the Law Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

peldom10 · May 2, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:

They don't believe in;

Baptism
Loss of righteous standing on earth.....backsliding.
God's law
etc.

They believe and teach;

Universalism ...everyone will be saved
OSAS...once saved always saved...here on earth ( regardless that God judges us after physical death)
No Rapture
Follow me and give me your money (Having said that.....I stress....tithing is required...to the right cause)
etc.

"Better than nothing...is folly and a waste of time.

arthurfleminger · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

If I read your post correctly, you say that God's given 10 commandments are a curse. I can't believe that is the case. You also infer that Jesus came to do away with these commandments. Yet Jesus, Himself, adamantly stated that he did not come to negate the law but to fulfill it. So, whom should I believe, you or Jesus?

When you reference doing away with the law perhaps you are confusing man made Mosaic law, that were separate from God's laws, with God's law of the 10 commandments.

seed_time_harvest · May 2, 2022

The LAW Is good ( written down and engraved) on stone but I am carnal sold under sin.

peldom10 · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

Gods Law is clearly illuminated for those who have come to Christ and have asked for Wisdom and Knowledge of Christ and their Salvation.

For those who still work at their interpretation of the 10 commandments, and are still under the curse, it is not.

It shouldn't be a new interpretation. The bible is there for everyone to read and to follow Christs Commandments.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

That's what the 10 commandments command and why it is a curse to us. And when you find out you can't do it;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That's what you need to study and ask questions about. What is this Rest that the Lord Jesus is talking about?

Why do you see God's commandments..a curse? Please explain.

Becoming perfect should be our objective...as a goal.

MAtt; 11;28 refers to those under going great tribulation stress.

Carry_Your_Name · May 2, 2022

peldom10 said:

Whatever you say, man, I can only speak for myself, that I got my first dose of Christianity from the music, it got me interested in studying the Bible. It holds that power to lower my psychological barrier and penetrate into my heart. And there are a lot of people shared the same experience, growing up as fans of Amy Grant or Michael W Smith.

seed_time_harvest · May 2, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

How do you love If GOD has not first put the love In you?That‘s why there’s a difference between the ten commandments that Moses gave and the two commandments that JESUS gave.
John 3:19
King James Version

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
+++

Luke 11:35
King James Version

Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness
+++

John 12:46
King James Version

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
+++

1 John 4:10
King James Version

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins

Grandpa · May 2, 2022

arthurfleminger said:

Nope. The Lord didn't do away with the 10 commandments. He fulfilled them. Then gives us Rest from our work at them when we come to Him.

That is correct. The 10 commandments are a curse. Because they are commanding you to do what ONLY the Holy Spirit can do.

Gods Law is NOT the 10 commandments. That is Moses Law.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

There's the direct compare/contrast between Gods Law and the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments are the ministration of Death and Condemnation. Gods Law is the ministration of the Spirit and Righteousness.

Grandpa · May 2, 2022

peldom10 said:

The 10 commandments are a curse because they are Commanding you to do something you can't do. The more you focus on them the worse it becomes.

Becoming perfect is only something the Lord Jesus can accomplish and Give as His Gift. Our objective is to become Gods Workmanship. Which will be a lot closer to perfect than what we would be able to accomplish by our own understanding and strength.

Matthew 11:28 is referring to all those who labor and are heavily laden with attempting to be Righteous before God by their own work at the 10 commandments.

All those who have found they cannot accomplish Righteousness before God by their own work come to Christ and are made Righteous by His Mercy and Grace.

peldom10 · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Why are you hung up on the 10 commandments without reference to the many more commandments in scripture?

What do you follow for righteous guidance if not God's commandments?

What will God use for judgement for us?

You make no sense.

Scriptures refutes you 1000%

arthurfleminger · May 2, 2022

Grandpa said:

Actually, just about all Christian denominations recognize the 10 Commandments to be valid. In fact, while the 10 Commandments come from the Old Testament, the New Testament references many of the principles of the Old.

The 10 Commandments in the New Testament

The 10 Commandments are not expressed in list form in the New Testament like they are in Exodus 20. Instead, writers refer to them in the context of their teaching about Christ and the church. All the principles from the 10 Commandments are alive and well in New Testament Scripture.

Exodus 20 revealed in the New Testament all 10 Commandments:

1“You shall have no other gods before me.” (Ex. 20:2)“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5

2“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.” (Ex. 20:3-6)“Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.” 1 John 5:21

3“You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.” (Ex. 20:7)“All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.” 1 Timothy 6:1

4“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.” (Ex. 20:8)“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.” Colossians 2:16

*5“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.” (Ex. 20:9-11)“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. ‘Honor your father and mother’ — which is the first commandment with a promise —” Ephesians 6:1-2

6“You shall not murder.” (Ex. 20:13)“The commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not covet,’ and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'” (Romans 13:9)

7“You shall not commit adultery.” (Ex. 20:14)“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

8“You shall not steal.” (Ex. 20:15)“Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.” (Ephesians 4:28)

9“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.” (Ex. 20:16)“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

10“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Ex. 20:17)“Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.” (Colossians 3:5)

Hazelelponi · May 2, 2022

Maybe you all are getting to the same place but from different angles?

I'll be honest this thread has become confusing.

We will be clothed in Christ's righteousness in heaven and not our own, and it's not our righteousness that saves us, salvation is by faith alone.

But faith is never alone - works follow faith from a Spirit of love and gratitude for what was done in our stead.

Those works automatically include doing the things God loves and eschewing the things God hates.

We aren't going to gossip, fornicate, commit adultery, run out and kill random people etc etc if we truly love God and have His Holy Spirit inside us.

There's nothing to hate about God's law, as they are born of His nature, a nature we do our best to emulate, however faultily...

We can keep the Spirit of the law, so long as we eschew the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

We only fail when we try in our flesh. So it's not the law at fault but our flesh, and under the New Covenant we have this great gift in order to help us be overcomers.. we may stumble and we may falter, but if we have the Spirit of God inside us we will always get back up.

seed_time_harvest · May 2, 2022

Hazelelponi said:

Maybe you all are getting to the same place but from different angles?

I'll be honest this thread has become confusing.

We will be clothed in Christ's righteousness in heaven and not our own, and it's not our righteousness that saves us, salvation is by faith alone.

But faith is never alone - works follow faith from a Spirit of love and gratitude for what was done in our stead.

Those works automatically include doing the things God loves and eschewing the things God hates.

We aren't going to gossip, fornicate, commit adultery, run out and kill random people etc etc if we truly love God and have His Holy Spirit inside us.

There's nothing to hate about God's law, as they are born of His nature, a nature we do our best to emulate, however faultily...

We can keep the Spirit of the law, so long as we eschew the flesh and walk in the Spirit.

We only fail when we try in our flesh. So it's not the law at fault but our flesh, and under the New Covenant we have this great gift in order to help us be overcomers.. we may stumble and we may falter, but if we have the Spirit of God inside us we will always get back up.

It's just that the bible says that If you are living by the law then you are supposed to keep It ALL and those who judge others for not uplifting the law DON'T keep the law the way the bible says keep the law and they are trying to place a burden on those that believe In JESUS as GOD IN CHRIST

Hazelelponi · May 2, 2022

seed_time_harvest said:

It's just that the bible says that If you are living by the law then you are supposed to keep It ALL and those who judge others for not uplifting the law DON'T keep the law the way the bible says keep the law and they are trying to place a burden on those that believe In JESUS as GOD IN CHRIST

Why do so many Churches teach a salvation doctrine opposed the the one Jesus taught?

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