Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[TheLearner]

It is the same "gift", one "gift", the "gift" of Holy Spirit coming to stay in each person.
He will grow each of us as much as we will grow.
Every manifestation of the Spirit Jesus demonstrated is available to every believer.

1 Corinthians 12
Easy-to-Read Version
Gifts From the Holy Spirit
12 Now, brothers and sisters, I want you to understand about spiritual gifts. 2 You remember the lives you lived before you were believers. You let yourselves be influenced and led away to worship idols—things that have no life. 3 So I tell you that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “Jesus be cursed.” And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” without the help of the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but they are all from the same Spirit. 5 There are different ways to serve, but we serve the same Lord. 6 And there are different ways that God works in people, but it is the same God who works in all of us to do everything.

7 Something from the Spirit can be seen in each person. The Spirit gives this to each one to help others. 8 The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom. And the same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge. 9 The same Spirit gives faith to one person and to another he gives gifts of healing. 10 The Spirit gives to one person the power to do miracles, to another the ability to prophesy, and to another the ability to judge what is from the Spirit and what is not. The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak in different kinds of languages, and to another the ability to interpret those languages. 11 One Spirit, the same Spirit, does all these things. The Spirit decides what to give each one.

The Body of Christ
12 A person has only one body, but it has many parts. Yes, there are many parts, but all those parts are still just one body. Christ is like that too. 13 Some of us are Jews and some of us are not; some of us are slaves and some of us are free. But we were all baptized to become one body through one Spirit. And we were all given[a] the one Spirit.

14 And a person’s body has more than one part. It has many parts. 15 The foot might say, “I am not a hand, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not stop the foot from being a part of the body. 16 The ear might say, “I am not an eye, so I don’t belong to the body.” But saying this would not make the ear stop being a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, it would not be able to hear. If the whole body were an ear, it would not be able to smell anything. 18-19 If each part of the body were the same part, there would be no body. But as it is, God put the parts in the body as he wanted them. He made a place for each one. 20 So there are many parts, but only one body.

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the foot, “I don’t need you!” 22 No, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are actually very important. 23 And the parts that we think are not worth very much are the parts we give the most care to. And we give special care to the parts of the body that we don’t want to show. 24 The more beautiful parts don’t need this special care. But God put the body together and gave more honor to the parts that need it. 25 God did this so that our body would not be divided. God wanted the different parts to care the same for each other. 26 If one part of the body suffers, then all the other parts suffer with it. Or if one part is honored, then all the other parts share its honor.

27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.

 

[TheLearner]

Oh don't quote half scriptures at me.

"and to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations a thorn was given me in the flesh"

You were implying that grace was given to Paul in his later years rather than the miraculous but here we see actually more grace was given to him because of the abundance of the miraculous.

2 Corinthians 12
King James Version
12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

 

[TheLearner]

This may not be the greatest example, but it's not far off.

Acts represents the first love between Christ and his bride. Like a human love affair, it starts off with a bang; it's all fireworks. But if the relationship stands a chance of surviving long term, it has to mature and mellow. This is exactly what we see in the New Testament and it's what is explained by Paul: "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things."—1 Corinthians 13:11

Pentecostals/Charismatics are caught in a perpetual state of immaturity; though, admittedly, some more so than others.

That is my experience with some pentecostals which lack the virtures of II Peter 1 and Fruit of the H.S. of Gal 5.

 

[cv5]

I pray in the Spirit in a tongue all the time. It happens to be the English tongue. No need for an interpreter. Its working for me.

 

[TheLearner]

He said, leaning on his own understanding, as we are clearly commanded to NOT do......

I have heard that line from many people in the cults like Christian Science, Mind Science Cults, Oneness, Jesus Only, Scientology, LDS, JWs and many others.

Informative link not related to what I said. https://www.gotquestions.org/lean-not-own-understanding.html

 

[shittim]

I have heard that line from many people in the cults like Christian Science, Mind Science Cults, Oneness, Jesus Only, Scientology, LDS, JWs and many others.

Informative link not related to what I said. https://www.gotquestions.org/lean-not-own-understanding.html

"That line" is not a "line", it is scripture.

 

[shittim]

I pray in the Spirit in a tongue all the time. It happens to be the English tongue. No need for an interpreter. Its working for me.

The Divine prayer language is more effective as He knows what we need to pray better than we know ourselves.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I pray in the Spirit in a tongue all the time. It happens to be the English tongue. No need for an interpreter. Its working for me.

Amen! And, On The Other End, There Is A Great Listener!!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[shittim]

The next part of this communication is perceiving what He is saying to us.

 

[cv5]

Pastor Joe Focht says:
"If you think everyone has to speak in toungues, you are hanging around with too many Corinthians."

 

[shittim]

alot of people say a lot of things....

 

[Evmur]

Isn't it true that Pentecostals/Charismatics put on a big outward show, like the Pharisees? I don't see how you can deny it.

the Pharisees are only known to us because they turned up at Jesu's big outward show and later at Paul's big show.

 

[Evmur]

This may not be the greatest example, but it's not far off.

Acts represents the first love between Christ and his bride. Like a human love affair, it starts off with a bang; it's all fireworks. But if the relationship stands a chance of surviving long term, it has to mature and mellow. This is exactly what we see in the New Testament and it's what is explained by Paul: "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things."—1 Corinthians 13:11

Pentecostals/Charismatics are caught in a perpetual state of immaturity; though, admittedly, some more so than others.

God is forever calling us back to our first love, our early espousals, that from which we have fallen.

 

[Evmur]

If tongues continue on, why do we not hear anything at all about them after 1 Corinthians, one of Paul's earliest letters? What we do hear is Paul's instructions for the establishment of church government and protocol.

Thing evolved in the churches. They didn't stay the same as we hear about in Acts and 1 Corinthians, regardless of how some people would like to return to the "good ol' days."

1 Corinthians is the only letter that deals substantially with what form the church meeting take.

When the Galatians went off into "deeper teaching" Paul bade them to consider whether it was the teaching of the law or the simple gospel of the cross which caused the Holy Spirit to work among them with miracles.

 

[Orumah]

Hello

 

[ResidentAlien]

45 joyful years of success, triumphing over aversity, ever sweeter fellowship with the Lord.

Why would I change ? ....

Those things are all good, but you didn't say the one thing I thought you might have said. I expected something like: "I've found the ultimate truth, how can I walk away from truth? I'm in His will and have found peace as His faithful servant. Rather, it seems to be all about you.

 

[ResidentAlien]

1 Corinthians is the only letter that deals substantially with what form the church meeting take.

That's not what I said. You're confusing what the actual meeting should look like with church structure and protocol.

But if you want to talk about the form of the church meeting: tongues isn't mentioned again in the New Testament after 1 Corinthians. It seems if it was such an important part or the primitive church meetings something would've been said; but instead we have crickets.

 

[shittim]

Neither is healing of a believer mentioned, it was known and understood a believer should be able to get their own healing, should they not be able to, then they are to call upon the elders.
A public word from the Lord differs from the Divine prayer language that all are expected to practice without ceasing.
It is beyond the understanding of those stuck at an outward form of godliness.

Those things are all good, but you didn't say the one thing I thought you might have said. I expected something like: "I've found the ultimate truth, how can I walk away from truth? I'm in His will and have found peace as His faithful servant. Rather, it seems to be all about you.

"I thought" once again.
All about you?

 

[DavidTree]

That is my experience with some pentecostals which lack the virtures of II Peter 1 and Fruit of the H.S. of Gal 5.

My experience, which some on here verify, is the complete arrogance at the highest level to refute the very words of the Holy Spirit as they exalt themselves on the level of a 'modern day' apostle, whereby they scoff and mock the Holy Spirit and seek to replace/undermine the teachings of the Holy Spirit with a false god = carnal/religious intellect.

This god of intellectualism always seeks to attack the Gifts of the Spirit along with those who have been Baptized in the Holy Spirit.
We who have received from Above, the Song of the Dove, need no affirmation from those who flubb.

Virtues of II Peter 1 and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is clearly lacking in their lives.

Human moral virtue of solemnity is VOID before the SPIRIT of God.

"The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."

If you never danced like David before the very Presence of the LORD, you are lacking in virtue of the SPIRIT.

FYI: The Presence of the LORD cannot be found in any church building anywhere upon the face of the earth.

 

[DavidTree]

That is my experience with some pentecostals which lack the virtures of II Peter 1 and Fruit of the H.S. of Gal 5.

FYI: The virtues of 11 Peter 1 and Fruit of Gal ch5 are lacking on both sides of the fence.
To attribute this lack to just one side is, in itself lacking HS Fruit.

Before you go off the rail, take notice of 1 Corinthians 14:1

Earnestly pursue love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God.
Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

At least one CC member on here has called 1 Cor ch14 = B.S.