Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[ResidentAlien]

The Gift of Tongues has not changed from the Day it was poured out on Pentecost in Acts ch2.

When i said "nothing could be further from the truth" i was directing that statement at the false claim that what occurred in Acts is different from what the Holy Spirit declared in 1 Corinthians.
Acts and 1 Corinthians are the same Holy Spirit and the same Gift of Tongues.

What you need to discover is exactly what Acts is all about, why the Promise of the FATHER pleases HIM and is essential for Witness.
You also need to submit to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you - it's a great Blessing.

If tongues continue on, why do we not hear anything at all about them after 1 Corinthians, one of Paul's earliest letters? What we do hear is Paul's instructions for the establishment of church government and protocol.

Thing evolved in the churches. They didn't stay the same as we hear about in Acts and 1 Corinthians, regardless of how some people would like to return to the "good ol' days."

 

[DavidTree]

If tongues continue on, why do we not hear anything at all about them after 1 Corinthians, one of Paul's earliest letters? What we do hear is Paul's instructions for the establishment of church government and protocol.

Thing evolved in the churches. They didn't stay the same as we hear about in Acts and 1 Corinthians, regardless of how some people would like to return to the "good ol' days."

i have to go to a jobsite now - will get back to later - Peace

 

[hornetguy]

Today is a new day and His Mercies are New every morning....

We are not in competition with each other - we both kneel at the Feet of Him who Loves us and forever intercedes on our behalf.

Something to dwell on: Why did the LORD tell His disciples who walked with Him, seen the miracles, watched Him raise the dead,
speak such words of Grace and Truth that no man has heard before (words of Eternal Life), watched Him be falsely accused, beaten beyond recognition, carrying His Cross and then being nailed to it, and on the third Day HE rose, showing Himself to many for 40 days, and then they watched Him ascend to Heaven.
WHY would the LORD prevent them from going forward with the Gospel after all which they bare witness too???

I would have preferred simply a direct answer to my question...
You stated that I should discover "what Acts is all about"..... I think I HAVE discovered what it is all about.... you appear to think differently.
I want to know what essential aspect YOU think I'm missing, that which is keeping me from being an effective witness?

 

[TheLearner]

I am often tired and forget stuff

 

[TDidymas]

The Gift of Tongues has not changed from the Day it was poured out on Pentecost in Acts ch2.

When i said "nothing could be further from the truth" i was directing that statement at the false claim that what occurred in Acts is different from what the Holy Spirit declared in 1 Corinthians.
Acts and 1 Corinthians are the same Holy Spirit and the same Gift of Tongues.

What you need to discover is exactly what Acts is all about, why the Promise of the FATHER pleases HIM and is essential for Witness.
You also need to submit to God, resist the devil and he will flee from you - it's a great Blessing.

Your argument proves nothing at all. Since all of us who see through the fraud of modern tongues don't accept what you say, if you really want to convince us that your glossolalia is the same thing as what the apostles received in Acts 2, you need to present it for examination. If you continue to hide it with excuses, we will continue to say it's fraud.

But if you claim you aren't trying to convince us, then why all the hubbub?

 

[TDidymas]

The power of God moving in people's hearts is what we need. I do agree with that.

May we ask for and receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit's power to be witnesses today and that the power of the Holy Spirit be evident to all that we come in contact with like what we read about in Acts.

We need the same power they had then to do the work he has called us to do today.

It's been 2000 years since they changed the world in their own lifetimes with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Church history went through some dark ages when the scriptures were locked up and only certain things were taught. After the reformation there were areas of scriptures such as salvation that took center stage. When people began to ask for and receive a restoration of other areas they were treated as heretics by the reformers and so the cycle repeats itself.

We are a relatively young movement still going back to the scriptures and seeking a restoration to what we read about in the Gospels and in Acts and this is all a good and honest heart and God will bless it by giving us what we ask, seek and knock for. The Holy Spirit. (Luke 11)

And with the power of the Holy Spirit we can change the world again in our own lifetime. Church History is not over, the reformation and restoration is not over. And those that refuse to settle for doubt and unbelief will receive an out pouring in these last days that will once again turn the world upside down in Jesus Name. We need the power of the Holy Spirit and anything God chooses to do of a miraculous nature through signs and wonders as we preach the Gospel is needed today for the same reasons that He did it in Acts.

By reading the gospels we learn how Jesus gave us power over all the powers of the kingdom of darkness and the enemy to cast out devils, heal the sick and we were to tread on serpents and scorpions. Heal the sick and tell them that the kingdom of God had come nigh. After the book of Revelation was written we still have power over all the power of the enemy and can still heal the sick and cast out devils in Jesus name.

Who would think that this advancing the Kingdom of God should recede or come up against a wall such that we can no longer do these things because the NT was completed. That does not make sense at all. We should have even more miracles and signs and wonders because faith comes by hearing the word of God and we have a NT to read and memorize and promises to stand on and this should motivate us to go and preach the Gospel, healing the sick and casting out devils and it should increase not decrease.

The job is not done. A remnant will arise. Those who hunger and long for righteousness. Those who seek, ask, and knock, they shall receive the same power that we read about in Acts. And they will turn the world upside down in these last days. Awake, Awake, Put on thy Strength! Do you not hear the calling?

Yes, I hear this calling, not the counterfeit 'calling' of modern tongues. The reason I post here on this subject is to get P/Cs to get off their high horse about their so-called gift, and get down to business of what God is doing. I also post for anyone who would read this thread seeking the truth about the movement. Like I said, many P/Cs are doing God's business to some extent, not because of their 'tongues,' but because of God's word. I see 'tongues' as a distraction and a hindrance from God's business.

So in my POV, the remnant who will arise (as if there is no remnant today already arisen?) will be those who seek God through the scriptures, and not who seek God through subjective experiences. There is nothing wrong with subjective experiences, but when they become the thing by which scripture is interpreted, it's wrong.

 

[cv5]

Your argument proves nothing at all. Since all of us who see through the fraud of modern tongues don't accept what you say, if you really want to convince us that your glossolalia is the same thing as what the apostles received in Acts 2, you need to present it for examination. If you continue to hide it with excuses, we will continue to say it's fraud.

But if you claim you aren't trying to convince us, then why all the hubbub?

If I were speaking real legitimate real tongues, I would be posting it RIGHT HERE on Christian chat for the benefit of the brethren. And I wouldn't be stingy about it either. I would probably be posting these miraculous videos daily or weekly at least.

Truly there must be thousands of incidences of these phenomenon which from which to choose......... correct? A copious nonstop deluge of devastatingly convincing miraculous tongues would do much to bolster the cause of Christ.

 

[mustaphadrink]

They're available but no one in existence today has any of the miraculous powers; those who say they do are really clever sleight-of-hand artists. And by "sleight-of-hand" I include things like hypnotism. You have to hypnotize someone if you want them to accept something that clear and convincing evidence shows isn't true. And there's no greater delusion than self-imposed delusion.

FYI no one had any miraculous powers. Ever. All anyone is a vehicle for the power of the Holy Spirit to do his miraculous work through. That requires obedience and faith in what God can do, not what we can do. I speak from experience which has resulted in deliverance, healing and coming back from the dead.

 

[DavidTree]

I would have preferred simply a direct answer to my question...
You stated that I should discover "what Acts is all about"..... I think I HAVE discovered what it is all about.... you appear to think differently.
I want to know what essential aspect YOU think I'm missing, that which is keeping me from being an effective witness?

Yes, I hear this calling, not the counterfeit 'calling' of modern tongues. The reason I post here on this subject is to get P/Cs to get off their high horse about their so-called gift, and get down to business of what God is doing. I also post for anyone who would read this thread seeking the truth about the movement. Like I said, many P/Cs are doing God's business to some extent, not because of their 'tongues,' but because of God's word. I see 'tongues' as a distraction and a hindrance from God's business.

So in my POV, the remnant who will arise (as if there is no remnant today already arisen?) will be those who seek God through the scriptures, and not who seek God through subjective experiences. There is nothing wrong with subjective experiences, but when they become the thing by which scripture is interpreted, it's wrong.

The LORD has always Blessed His Remnant who believe His words.
Because They believe, the LORD knows the hearts, the Father has Baptized them in the Holy Spirit according to the Gospel, Acts, 1 Corinthians.

 

[DavidTree]

Your argument proves nothing at all. Since all of us who see through the fraud of modern tongues don't accept what you say, if you really want to convince us that your glossolalia is the same thing as what the apostles received in Acts 2, you need to present it for examination. If you continue to hide it with excuses, we will continue to say it's fraud.

But if you claim you aren't trying to convince us, then why all the hubbub?

The Pharisees speak and murmur............as My LORD and Savior Jesus Christ Baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

 

[mustaphadrink]

This is not the problem. Not all what is written in the bible is for all times.
It may be that God is uesing speaking in tongues ( foreign languages) for to call people in his family, today
But the pentecostal teaching since Topeka and Azusa was neither taught in the bible to believers, nor in the churchhistory.
And No one could give me the proof for the oposit.

I am sorry but I am one of those strange people who happens to believe that ALL scripture is given by God for.......so I don't deselect parts that I don't want to know about.

 

[hornetguy]

The LORD has always Blessed His Remnant who believe His words.
Because They believe, the LORD knows the hearts, the Father has Baptized them in the Holy Spirit according to the Gospel, Acts, 1 Corinthians.

I infer from this that you believe that anyone that does not speak in tongues has NOT been baptized with the Spirit, and is not a Christian...because they are not a part of the "remnant" from Pentecost.

Which is what I suspected you believed all along. You finally admit it.

 

[DavidTree]

I infer from this that you believe that anyone that does not speak in tongues has NOT been baptized with the Spirit, and is not a Christian...because they are not a part of the "remnant" from Pentecost.

Which is what I suspected you believed all along. You finally admit it.

Your inference is incorrect, unscriptural and neither do i hold to such error.

 

[shittim]

I infer from this that you believe that anyone that does not speak in tongues has NOT been baptized with the Spirit, and is not a Christian...because they are not a part of the "remnant" from Pentecost.

Which is what I suspected you believed all along. You finally admit it.

as each of us should be constantly growing and being conformed more and more to the image of the Son, a person not now manifesting this gift may in the future or may have it available, they just haven't used it .

 

[TheLearner]

I infer from this that you believe that anyone that does not speak in tongues has NOT been baptized with the Spirit, and is not a Christian...because they are not a part of the "remnant" from Pentecost.

Which is what I suspected you believed all along. You finally admit it.

If Pentecostals really teach you must speak in tongues to be Saved that puts them outside the Christian Faith.

 

[TheLearner]

as each of us should be constantly growing and being conformed more and more to the image of the Son, a person not now manifesting this gift may in the future or may have it available, they just haven't used it .

2 Peter 1
International Children’s Bible
Correcting False Teachings
1 From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.

To you who have received a faith as valuable as ours. You received that faith because our God and Savior Jesus Christ is fair and does what is right.

2 Grace and peace be given to you more and more. You will have grace and peace because you truly know God and Jesus our Lord.

God Has Given Us Blessings
3 Jesus has the power of God. His power has given us everything we need to live and to serve God. We have these things because we know him. Jesus called us by his glory and goodness. 4 Through his glory and goodness, he gave us the very great and rich gifts he promised us. With those gifts you can share in God’s nature. And so the world will not ruin you with its evil desires.

5 Because you have these blessings, you should try as much as you can to add these things to your lives: to your faith, add goodness; and to your goodness, add knowledge; 6 and to your knowledge, add self-control; and to your self-control, add the ability to hold on; and to your ability to hold on, add service for God; 7 and to your service for God, add kindness for your brothers and sisters in Christ; and to this kindness, add love. 8 If all these things are in you and are growing, they will help you never to be useless. They will help your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ make your lives better. 9 But if anyone does not have these things, he cannot see clearly. He is blind. He has forgotten that he was made clean from his past sins.

10 My brothers, God called you and chose you to be his. Try hard to show that you really are God’s chosen people. If you do all these things, you will never fall. 11 And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That kingdom continues forever.

12 You know these things, and you are very strong in the truth. But I will always help you to remember these things. 13 I think it is right for me to help you remember while I am still living here on earth. 14 I know that I must soon leave this body. Our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me that. 15 I will try the best I can to help you remember these things always. I want you to be able to remember them even after I am gone.

 

[hornetguy]

as each of us should be constantly growing and being conformed more and more to the image of the Son, a person not now manifesting this gift may in the future or may have it available, they just haven't used it .

Or, scripturally, they may NEVER receive that gift. Each person has whatever gift the Spirit decides they need. A TRUE believer will pray to receive what the Spirit wills.... NOT what they "want" to have.

 

[shittim]

It is the same "gift", one "gift", the "gift" of Holy Spirit coming to stay in each person.
He will grow each of us as much as we will grow.
Every manifestation of the Spirit Jesus demonstrated is available to every believer.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I speak from experience

I'm sure you do.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Pharisees speak and murmur............as My LORD and Savior Jesus Christ Baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

Isn't it curious how it's only Pentecostals and Charismatics who put on a big show so they'll be noticed, like the Pharisees.

"I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."—Revelation 3:1