You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.

[JeffA]

You do realize that John had no authority to forgive sins. This means baptism in water did not accomplish this task. It was to encourage people to repent and to ask for the remission of sins. This is getting people PREPARED for the "real thing".
John's practice of the ritual water baptism was preparing people for "actual baptism".
There is nothing wrong with this practice. It probably opens many hearts to accept Jesus' salvation.
It just isn't a "necessary" step in one's acceptance of Jesus.

 

[KelbyofGod]

You do realize that John had no authority to forgive sins. This means baptism in water did not accomplish this task. It was to encourage people to repent and to ask for the remission of sins. This is getting people PREPARED for the "real thing".
John's practice of the ritual water baptism was preparing people for "actual baptism".
There is nothing wrong with this practice. It probably opens many hearts to accept Jesus' salvation.
It just isn't a "necessary" step in one's acceptance of Jesus.

I do realize that you have not posted Mark 1:4 for us to see what it actually says. And Yes, John DID have authority to do what he was doing because God himself sent John to do it. The fact that it is hard for us to believe/receive doensn't make it any less true.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

FYI, the reason John the baptist was the greatest prophet of those born of women was that he was indeed the FIRST person to be given the authority to baptize for THE REMISSION of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). No prophet before him had been given that much authority. Not David, not Moses.

John wasn't baptizing for remembrance or acknowledgement of belief in Jesus (or John). He was baptizing for remission of sins because that's what God told him to do. And when God tells you to do something, he will honor its operation. The reason it worked was that the sins that were washed OFF of the people were placed ON Jesus to be taken to the cross. "The Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[JeffA]

I do realize that you have not posted Mark 1:4 for us to see what it actually says. And Yes, John DID have authority to do what he was doing because God himself sent John to do it. The fact that it is hard for us to believe/receive doensn't make it any less true.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Is Mark 1:4 not in your Bible?

John, of course, had authority to baptize. Don't misunderstand me.
He did NOT have authority to FORGIVE.
John preached the coming of Messiah, who, would (IN FACT) forgive their sins through immersion in the Holy Spirit.
Jesus fulfilled the meaning of John's presence. Afterwards, water baptism was still practiced.
Even those who John (or anyone else) did not water-baptize were yet "eligible" for Holy Spirit immersion.

 

[JeffA]

FYI, the reason John the baptist was the greatest prophet of those born of women was that he was indeed the FIRST person to be given the authority to baptize for THE REMISSION of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). No prophet before him had been given that much authority. Not David, not Moses.

John wasn't baptizing for remembrance or acknowledgement of belief in Jesus (or John). He was baptizing for remission of sins because that's what God told him to do. And when God tells you to do something, he will honor its operation. The reason it worked was that the sins that were washed OFF of the people were placed ON Jesus to be taken to the cross. "The Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I'm really not trying to pick a fight.
It's just that I believe that ALL scripture is TRUE. Therefore, it must ALL reconcile.

My understanding of water-baptism RECONCILES with other scripture (i.e. John 3:16 and Eph 4:5)
Would you like me to post those?

Your explanation does not reconcile these passages.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Is Mark 1:4 not in your Bible?

People who don't believe a verse usually have an aversion to posting it. (for your future knowledge and current consideration). I wanted to see how strong your aversion really was.

Mark 1:4 KJV​

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

Thank you JESUS!

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I'm really not trying to pick a fight.
It's just that I believe that ALL scripture is TRUE. Therefore, it must ALL reconcile.

My understanding of water-baptism RECONCILES with other scripture (i.e. John 3:16 and Eph 4:5)
Would you like me to post those?

Your explanation does not reconcile these passages.

I accept and believe that you are not trying to pick a fight. (are speaking honestly).

But your initial interpretations of what John was baptizing for are NOT in alignment with what Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3 are clearly stating John's baptism was for. That's why I kept hounding the point.

HOW John's baptism could do what it says it did may be hard to grasp. But that's why it is imperative that we take it to prayer instead of assigning some easier-to-believe purpose to John's baptism. Because if we disregard the "remission of sins" aspect of John's baptism, we tend to similarly disregard the "remission of sins" aspect of all future baptisms the way it is similarly disregarded in Acts 2:38 (by many) and similarly replaced with some easier-to-believe purpose.

Luke 16:10 KJV​

He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.​

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[wolfwint]

Your belief is not supported by scriptures and therefore...wrong.
No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life.

Denominations are not recognized in scriptures and are man made with no credibility.
Where did you get your position from?

What does John 3;5 mean?, et al;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

So you would say, that someone who has received the Holy Spirit and dies without water baptism is not saved?

 

[KelbyofGod]

<-- AFK for a few hours, probably. But feel free to reply. I'll review when I return. Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[JeffA]

People who don't believe a verse usually have an aversion to posting it. (for your future knowledge and current consideration). I wanted to see how strong your aversion really was.

Mark 1:4 KJV​

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

Thank you JESUS!

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I'm probably not as good of a Psychoanalyst as you but, FYI, I believe ALL scriptures are true. (all scripture IS true)
I pointed this out already. I also pointed out that you do not reconcile them.

As for Mark 1:4, it is plainly stated that "for the remission of sins" is the REASON. (not the RESULT, necessarily)
True repentance can only occur in spirit.
You can drown yourself all day and there will be NO REMISSION without your spirit repenting.
Likewise, you can repent in spirit and receive remission of sins.
This is what John ACTUALLY taught that Messiah would do.

So, Mark 1:4 just isn't particularly that enlightening.

 

[wolfwint]

Your belief is not supported by scriptures and therefore...wrong.
No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life.

Denominations are not recognized in scriptures and are man made with no credibility.
Where did you get your position from?

What does John 3;5 mean?, et al;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

Denomination? My believe is not depend from an denomination. Because no one is 100% right in their teachings.
I have my view from the word of God.
But this is the point. Everybody claims to have his view from the bible.
So we will see in Future who is right.
What you understand under righteous life?

 

[JohnDB]

Are you for real?
They are individually responsible for their plight...not any one or any denomination.
Study the bible and stop trying to miss lead folks.

So what I have personally witnessed and experienced is a lie or are you saying that I am a liar...I am not sure which at this point.

However your dodging the questions I proposed and your instant name calling of me is rather telling.

And I am still going to say...I have seen people being deliberately denied being baptisms. It happens outside of your narrow view of the world and it's people.

 

[peldom10]

Said the guy who then posted this:

"No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life."

So, you claim that no one is born again UNTIL they repent, are baptized and "live a righteous life". So your theology is simply a works based salvation.

It is YOUR belief that is NOT supported by Scripture and therefore...wrong.


Where did yours come from? Certainly not the Bible.


So dishonest. The verse begins with "this (literal) water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that now saves us.

Wrong.

 

[peldom10]

John the Baptist, is not related to the Cross of Christ.
John The Baptist, was dunking Old Testament, Jews.

Now that Jesus is come and died and is resurrected, ... we have a NEW TESTAMENT and we preach the GOSPEL, not the WATER.

Paul says that Jesus/God sent him to "preach the GOSPEL"......not the water.

"water cults" preach : Water Baptism

Christian's Preach "Christ Crucified"

Be sure you figure this out., asap.

Baptism is Required

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

 

[peldom10]

Yes, it is separate. First a believer becomes born again and receives the Holy Spirit and then he should be baptised in water.
But I dont believe that water baptism is a must for salvation. This believing is the reason why first rcc and later protestants startet the Baby baptism.

Your belief should give answers to why these do not support baptism.
share them;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

 

[Gideon300]

Water baptism, since its establishment by John the Baptist (at God's commandment) is for remission of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3). Remission means separation from; removal of; washing away of. The name of Jesus was added after Jesus rose from the dead (Luke 24:47) and being water baptized continued "in Jesus name" & "for the remission of sins" according to Acts 2:38.

The disciples (believers) were baptized in water throughout John's ministry (Mark 1:5) and throughout Jesus' ministry John 4:1-2 (at start of) & Matthew 28:19 (at end of) but that wasn't enough. Jesus didn't JUST come to die for your sins. The disciples (believers) were instructed to tarry (wait, continue, abide, stand fast) until they were endued with power from on high... wait for the Comforter... wait for the Holy Ghost... wait for the promise... wait to be baptized with the Holy Ghost / Holy Spirit which was promised as surely as water baptism for remission of sins. (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33, Acts 1:5)

Both of these events (water baptism & Spirit baptism) are observable events. They are WITNESSES. They provide EVIDENCE.

Onlookers could tell when a person was baptized in water because the person was dunked, whelmed, fully wet.

Onlookers (informed onlookers) could tell when and/or IF someone got baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, Acts 8:17-18, Acts 10:45-46, Acts 19:6). I left off the 'how' on this one because I'd rather you read it and struggle with the scriptures than struggle with me.

And I'll stop right there because Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts are basics of New Testament belief/salvation. In some senses I could have stopped at Acts 2 but wanted to include more than one example of the observability of spirit baptism.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The signs on the day of Pentecost are not necessarily the signs of Baptism of the Holy Spirit on other occasions. I was on my own, around 10:30 Christmas Eve 1974. There was no wind and no tongues like fire. The Holy Spirit was poured out by Lord Jesus when He was exalted. There is no need to wait. You don't have to go to Jerusalem. No one saw me be baptised in the Holy Spirit but it sure was plain to me.

Seeking outward signs is fraught with danger. I have a friend who was exhorted to receive the Spirit. She went out the front. To please the person counseling her, she started making unintelligible sounds. There was only one problem. She was not born again at the time. If the counselor had a modicum of discernment, they would have known this.

Water baptism is different. It is a public declaration of the person's acceptance of Christ. In many cultures, that is most costly. Some Muslims and Jews will tolerate believers as long as they say nothing. But to openly declare faith by baptism is a red line to them.

Lord Jesus said that we would know real Christians by their fruit. Gifts are great and I move in some myself. However, gifts can be counterfeit. Love, joy, peace, patient endurance, self control, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness are less spectacular but surely less able to be be falsified.

 

[KelbyofGod]

The signs on the day of Pentecost are not necessarily the signs of Baptism of the Holy Spirit on other occasions. I was on my own, around 10:30 Christmas Eve 1974. There was no wind and no tongues like fire. The Holy Spirit was poured out by Lord Jesus when He was exalted. There is no need to wait. You don't have to go to Jerusalem. No one saw me be baptised in the Holy Spirit but it sure was plain to me.

Seeking outward signs is fraught with danger. I have a friend who was exhorted to receive the Spirit. She went out the front. To please the person counseling her, she started making unintelligible sounds. There was only one problem. She was not born again at the time. If the counselor had a modicum of discernment, they would have known this.

Water baptism is different. It is a public declaration of the person's acceptance of Christ. In many cultures, that is most costly. Some Muslims and Jews will tolerate believers as long as they say nothing. But to openly declare faith by baptism is a red line to them.

Lord Jesus said that we would know real Christians by their fruit. Gifts are great and I move in some myself. However, gifts can be counterfeit. Love, joy, peace, patient endurance, self control, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness are less spectacular but surely less able to be be falsified.

Your post has the feel of sincerity. And I'll answer likewise.

So many people claim to have the Holy Ghost and many speak of things they saw or heard or felt. And yet many don't actually have the Holy Ghost nor know how to tell IF they have the Holy Ghost.

My question to you would be "Did the Spirit begin to cry out to God in the language that only He understands, when you had your experience?" For if you pray in an unknown tongue, your Spirit prays. Did THAT happen?

And if you claim never to have seen false love, false peace, false joy, false patience, etc. I'd wonder where you live and/or question your honesty or ability to discern. (That's not being funny or mean. That's truly what I'd think.)

I hear a lot of people claiming to have encountered "false 'unknown' tongues". But of that group of people, I've not met any who I can immediately recall who then pointed out where"true 'unknown' tongues" are in operation. I do know that true 'unknown' tongues still does all the things God promises in the bible...Helps our infirmities, builds us up, prays things we don't know, etc. Those who claim seeing so many "false 'unknown' tongues" don't often have much positivity to add to any conversation on "true 'unknown' tongues". So I basically assume they are just disbelievers, unlearned, or cessationists, and either attempt to inform them or just follow the biblical directive of "he that is unjust, let him be unjust still".

I have "speaking in tongues" and know that it is the witness that is promised. I also know that it has been made available to all who God has called... and that many reject his calling and many reject his spirit. It is sad but Jesus said he stands at the door and knocks. He will not force his way in.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[wolfwint]

Still no answer to my question!

 

[wolfwint]

Your belief should give answers to why these do not support baptism.
share them;

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.


Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib

Still no answer to my question!

 

[Gideon300]

Your post has the feel of sincerity. And I'll answer likewise.

So many people claim to have the Holy Ghost and many speak of things they saw or heard or felt. And yet many don't actually have the Holy Ghost nor know how to tell IF they have the Holy Ghost.

My question to you would be "Did the Spirit begin to cry out to God in the language that only He understands, when you had your experience?" For if you pray in an unknown tongue, your Spirit prays. Did THAT happen?

And if you claim never to have seen false love, false peace, false joy, false patience, etc. I'd wonder where you live and/or question your honesty or ability to discern. (That's not being funny or mean. That's truly what I'd think.)

I hear a lot of people claiming to have encountered "false 'unknown' tongues". But of that group of people, I've not met any who I can immediately recall who then pointed out where"true 'unknown' tongues" are in operation. I do know that true 'unknown' tongues still does all the things God promises in the bible...Helps our infirmities, builds us up, prays things we don't know, etc. Those who claim seeing so many "false 'unknown' tongues" don't often have much positivity to add to any conversation on "true 'unknown' tongues". So I basically assume they are just disbelievers, unlearned, or cessationists, and either attempt to inform them or just follow the biblical directive of "he that is unjust, let him be unjust still".

I have "speaking in tongues" and know that it is the witness that is promised. I also know that it has been made available to all who God has called... and that many reject his calling and many reject his spirit. It is sad but Jesus said he stands at the door and knocks. He will not force his way in.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I did speak in tongues. I don't believe it is essential. I had a bit to do with old time AOG pastor. He was a farmer before he was saved, so not programmed by Pentecostal traditions. He said that he prayed for a lot of Baptists. This was during the so-called Charismatic revival in Australia. He said that many of the people he prayed for were already baptised in the Holy Spirit. Baptist doctrine says that we receive the Holy Spirit at the same time that we are born again (I don't agree btw). The reason was simple. If that is what they were taught and accepted, they had faith and so yes, they did receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I've met people who superficially seem to have love, joy and peace. My spirit discerns the reality pretty much straight away. Some people are just naturally nice. Time always brings out the truth. A bit of pressure exposes where people are at. The unfortunate reality is that most churchgoers are not born again. That's my observation, backed up by research by Christian groups. You can't expect the fruit of the Spirit from the spiritually dead.