You need both water baptism and the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.
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I'm referencing God's holiness.
If you have the Holy Spirit...a baptism is not necessary for salvation...an action or denial of action of man isn't going to keep you out of heaven. The theif on the cross is proof.
So you don't believe in God's holiness and you put your faith in the actions of other men for your salvation...
Yeah....you most certainly worship a different God.
If you have the Holy Spirit...a baptism is not necessary for salvation...an action or denial of action of man isn't going to keep you out of heaven. The theif on the cross is proof.
So you don't believe in God's holiness and you put your faith in the actions of other men for your salvation...
Yeah....you most certainly worship a different God.
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U are playing games with words.
The Holy Spirit and the required baptism is not in conflict.
Further, the thief on the cross is not proof because we do not know....background.
Don't interject unrelated items...which is typical of what the new age religion types/leftist try try to do when in the corner for lack of scriptural support, with God's word.
You have plenty to refute listed below...please do them one at a time;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
Nope,
You are putting words in my mouth I've never said.
Obviously you have a very very narrow view and really don't know people of this planet. There are people today being denied baptisms. And they are worried that God is going to reject them because the local congregation is denying them the right to be baptized...and you are re-enforcing their prejudice.
You are putting words in my mouth I've never said.
Obviously you have a very very narrow view and really don't know people of this planet. There are people today being denied baptisms. And they are worried that God is going to reject them because the local congregation is denying them the right to be baptized...and you are re-enforcing their prejudice.
Your belief is not supported by scriptures and therefore...wrong.
No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life.
Denominations are not recognized in scriptures and are man made with no credibility.
Where did you get your position from?
What does John 3;5 mean?, et al;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib
No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life.
Denominations are not recognized in scriptures and are man made with no credibility.
Where did you get your position from?
What does John 3;5 mean?, et al;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10;47 ....Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bib
Said the guy who then posted this:
"No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life."
So, you claim that no one is born again UNTIL they repent, are baptized and "live a righteous life". So your theology is simply a works based salvation.
It is YOUR belief that is NOT supported by Scripture and therefore...wrong.
Where did yours come from? Certainly not the Bible.
So dishonest. The verse begins with "this (literal) water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that now saves us.
"No one is ...born again...until...repented, baptized and living a righteous life."
So, you claim that no one is born again UNTIL they repent, are baptized and "live a righteous life". So your theology is simply a works based salvation.
It is YOUR belief that is NOT supported by Scripture and therefore...wrong.
Where did yours come from? Certainly not the Bible.
So dishonest. The verse begins with "this (literal) water SYMBOLIZES the baptism that now saves us.
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I'd read up to this post before needing to leave yesterday, and was about to scroll back to start at the beginning... But I like the topic of your last line.
Someone once told me I needed to be born again some time AFTER I'd been water baptized AND Spirit baptized. I argued and battled against the concept until we prayed (because he wouldn't back down or drop it so I thought there MAY be some additional truth I just couldn't yet see).
What God opened soon after was that "born" has more than one attribute. And that those attributes (even if truly given) aren't necessarily permanent. Some of those attributes needed to be re-newed (a.k.a made new) again if a person wants to claim the original benefit.
That's a distinction (that is hard to see) that can/will make it impossible to accurately convey truth if a person is unable to make the distinction.
That may sound like mumbo-jumbo, but after praying with that guy, God let me see the distinctions which were key to understanding what my friend was trying to share with me.
My point is that even "simple" salvation issues can only be truly, accurately understood if God opens the understanding. We cannot grasp, understand, believe, reach what God is offering freely unless God is included in the revealing. It's not a cop-out to say "You should pray about that". It's often the only way the person could see it. Their willingness to submit to praying until God moves/answers/speaks may be the difference between them "getting it" or remaining blind and dying.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Someone once told me I needed to be born again some time AFTER I'd been water baptized AND Spirit baptized. I argued and battled against the concept until we prayed (because he wouldn't back down or drop it so I thought there MAY be some additional truth I just couldn't yet see).
What God opened soon after was that "born" has more than one attribute. And that those attributes (even if truly given) aren't necessarily permanent. Some of those attributes needed to be re-newed (a.k.a made new) again if a person wants to claim the original benefit.
That's a distinction (that is hard to see) that can/will make it impossible to accurately convey truth if a person is unable to make the distinction.
That may sound like mumbo-jumbo, but after praying with that guy, God let me see the distinctions which were key to understanding what my friend was trying to share with me.
My point is that even "simple" salvation issues can only be truly, accurately understood if God opens the understanding. We cannot grasp, understand, believe, reach what God is offering freely unless God is included in the revealing. It's not a cop-out to say "You should pray about that". It's often the only way the person could see it. Their willingness to submit to praying until God moves/answers/speaks may be the difference between them "getting it" or remaining blind and dying.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
BTW, water baptism isn't a "work" that we do. It's a gift (for lack of better wording) from God that we submit to. God established it (not man) for remission of sins (Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38,39). It's not wrong that we teach and preach it that way. It's just not congruent with the teachings of man. So they get mad. Jesus said that would happen.
And people that are more concerned with what man says than what God says will still follow the teachings of the scribes and pharisees and doctors of law, even if they don't go by those monikers anymore. We call them biblical scholars seminary graduates and church leaders, etc. But in Jesus' day the rulers of the temple were most often those that vehemently rejected him and sought to destroy him and to cause others to turn from the truth, so it is in today.
Thank-you Jesus that he knows how to keep those who love him and are willing to change their thinking, behaviors, thoughts, friends, etc., to follow him.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
And people that are more concerned with what man says than what God says will still follow the teachings of the scribes and pharisees and doctors of law, even if they don't go by those monikers anymore. We call them biblical scholars seminary graduates and church leaders, etc. But in Jesus' day the rulers of the temple were most often those that vehemently rejected him and sought to destroy him and to cause others to turn from the truth, so it is in today.
Thank-you Jesus that he knows how to keep those who love him and are willing to change their thinking, behaviors, thoughts, friends, etc., to follow him.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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When it comes to ministering to MAN, not all will have diversities of tongues (speaking in multiple earthly languages by the spirit) nor will all have interpretations of tongues (interpreting the "unknown' tongues ((babbly talk / stammering lips)) into English). Because that's what type of ministering Paul is addressing in 1 Corinthians 12. He makes that clear in verse 7:
speaking in tongues (the unknown / babbly kind) isn't intended to be used to benefit the whole (unless God has it interpreted). It is not being spoken to man. It is unto GOD.(1 Cor. 14:2) And is the SPIRIT praying, not the understanding. (1 Cor 14:14) And God requires that those who worship HIM must worship him in SPIRIT as well as in their natural understanding. (John 4:23-24)
render unto man what is appointed for use unto MAN... and unto God that which is appointed for use unto GOD.
Love in Jesus, (and great question, BTW)
Kelby
1 Corinthians 12:7 KJV
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. (meaning to profit the body as a whole)
speaking in tongues (the unknown / babbly kind) isn't intended to be used to benefit the whole (unless God has it interpreted). It is not being spoken to man. It is unto GOD.(1 Cor. 14:2) And is the SPIRIT praying, not the understanding. (1 Cor 14:14) And God requires that those who worship HIM must worship him in SPIRIT as well as in their natural understanding. (John 4:23-24)
render unto man what is appointed for use unto MAN... and unto God that which is appointed for use unto GOD.
Love in Jesus, (and great question, BTW)
Kelby
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