Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection
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Let's remember Jesus was already sinless and righteous. But His baptism was symbolic as the Lamb of God. John's family were accustomed to temple sacrifices. One of the duties of the priests in the Old Testament was to present the sacrifices before the Lord. Jesus being prepared as the ultimate sacrifice.
John 1:29
New International Version
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Matthew 3:11 (ESV)
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 1:29
New International Version
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Matthew 3:11 (ESV)
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
The Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but did Jesus have the Spirit prior to His baptism? This may seem like an unusual question given who Jesus is, but let's look at what the Bible says:
The Spirit did not descend upon Him until His baptism:
Matthew 3:16
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
The Spirit did not descend upon Him until His baptism:
Matthew 3:16
16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
I agree.
Doesn't say they weren't baptized, which is important, but they most likely were baptized since John baptized most, if not all, of the people in the Judea countryside and Jerusalem.
Mark 1:5
5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
There are numerous kinds of baptisms, Ephesians 4:5 doesn't exactly say that's a Holy Spirit baptism. In fact there are examples of being filled with the Holy Spirit more than once so the "one baptism" might not be the Holy Spirit baptism. As you can see below, the Holy Spirit baptism can occur more than once and sometimes it appears to be linked directly to water baptism and sometimes not.
However, there is not a Biblical example of anyone ever getting water baptized more than once.
Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Why did Jesus send Ananias so that Saul could be filled with the Holy Ghost? Can a human fill someone else with the Holy Ghost or was it because he was water baptized?
Acts 13:17-18
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 13:52
52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
Thanks for sharing. Peace to you.
Doesn't say they weren't baptized, which is important, but they most likely were baptized since John baptized most, if not all, of the people in the Judea countryside and Jerusalem.
Mark 1:5
5And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
There are numerous kinds of baptisms, Ephesians 4:5 doesn't exactly say that's a Holy Spirit baptism. In fact there are examples of being filled with the Holy Spirit more than once so the "one baptism" might not be the Holy Spirit baptism. As you can see below, the Holy Spirit baptism can occur more than once and sometimes it appears to be linked directly to water baptism and sometimes not.
However, there is not a Biblical example of anyone ever getting water baptized more than once.
Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Why did Jesus send Ananias so that Saul could be filled with the Holy Ghost? Can a human fill someone else with the Holy Ghost or was it because he was water baptized?
Acts 13:17-18
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Acts 13:52
52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.
Thanks for sharing. Peace to you.
At one point I agreed with most of what you posted up until you started revealing your hand by responding to my posts. With every post the commonality I thought we once shared has become an ever-receding pocket filled mostly with disagreements. I am not even convinced we believe in the same God at this point.
Please source my alleged contradictions. Your paraphrasing of it is obviously void of all context and contains a blatant typographical error.
Your stance isn't Biblical, which has been revealed over several different pages and threads this month. I'm not going to list your errors. I addressed them as they arose and if you didn't receive correction for them then that's your fault not mine.
No I don't think so. I think you showed me you just don't agree with the Bible and didn't point to the source of my alleged contradiction. Apparently you're the only one who's seeing this. You're chasing ghosts.
Look again. The context is about water from the great flood which was a kind of baptism in its own right. However, the baptism that we do now is still water baptism, but the purpose of water baptism is not about getting clean, but about a clear conscience to God. It's an act of faith.
Water baptism is necessary to have a resurrection like Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 3:21
...even baptism doth also now save us... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...
A coming resurrection is literal, not symbolic, that means the below verses are for a literal resurrection:
Romans 6:4,5
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
No you're confused and the word of God will keep refuting you until you're tired.
You don't read the context, that's your error.
1 Cor. 15:23 is a standalone verse about the order of the resurrection. It doesn't expand on what is required to be resurrected.
Please source my alleged contradictions. Your paraphrasing of it is obviously void of all context and contains a blatant typographical error.
Your stance isn't Biblical, which has been revealed over several different pages and threads this month. I'm not going to list your errors. I addressed them as they arose and if you didn't receive correction for them then that's your fault not mine.
No I don't think so. I think you showed me you just don't agree with the Bible and didn't point to the source of my alleged contradiction. Apparently you're the only one who's seeing this. You're chasing ghosts.
Look again. The context is about water from the great flood which was a kind of baptism in its own right. However, the baptism that we do now is still water baptism, but the purpose of water baptism is not about getting clean, but about a clear conscience to God. It's an act of faith.
Water baptism is necessary to have a resurrection like Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 3:21
...even baptism doth also now save us... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...
A coming resurrection is literal, not symbolic, that means the below verses are for a literal resurrection:
Romans 6:4,5
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
No you're confused and the word of God will keep refuting you until you're tired.
You don't read the context, that's your error.
1 Cor. 15:23 is a standalone verse about the order of the resurrection. It doesn't expand on what is required to be resurrected.
Well, Jesus came from the FATHER so HE definitely had the Spirit of God in HIM but we see that, "HE immediately coming up out of water the Holy Spirit RESTED and REMAINED upon Him and the Voice from Heaven saying: "this is My Beloved Son in whom I am well Pleased."
This is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the SECOND PROMISE of the FATHER.
LOOK & SEE = water baptism was/is an essential part of the Will of God for us = no doubt. The MORE IMPORTANT Baptism is the Holy Spirit.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the READ DEAL that empowers His Sons and Daughters.
Acts ch2
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
This is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is the SECOND PROMISE of the FATHER.
LOOK & SEE = water baptism was/is an essential part of the Will of God for us = no doubt. The MORE IMPORTANT Baptism is the Holy Spirit.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the READ DEAL that empowers His Sons and Daughters.
Acts ch2
In the last days, God says,
I will pour out My Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
Even on My menservants and maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
FreeGrace2 said:
So, it's now "flawed views", huh. At one time, you said you agreed with MOST of what I posted. So, just over your own flawed misunderstanding of 1 verse I have "flawed views" of the Bible. What a flip flop.
I was dealing with your posts then. So it's YOU who have flip flopped. I disagree with your weird view of 1 Cor 15:29. How many commentators are as convinced as you are of that verse? Do you have a count?
There were many areas of agreement. But we do disagree on what 1 Cor 15:29 is or isn't about.
That is sick. All because of your view of water baptism being a requirement for resurrection???? Other than 1 Cor 15:29 where else does the Bible support that view?
I posted this:
"I showed your contradiction. Here it is again.
You admit that water baptism is not required for salvaation.
But you insist that water baptism is required for resurrection.
Yet, the Bible says plainly that the resurrection is for "those who belong to Christ".
You would have it that resurrection is for "those who have been water baptized".
But you are blind to your error."
Please source my alleged contradictions. [/QUOTE]
I did. Above. Your own stated views.
If so, then please correct me.
I said:
"Would you please inform me of this "demoninational creed" you think I have? In fact, I've attended an independent church for over 2 decades. But what demonination do you think I am clinging to?"
That is your opinion. How all in the scholarly group of men are on your side? Who else believes what you believe about water baptism and resurrection.
And you didn't mention what you think is my "denomination creed". Why? I asked what you think it is.
Of course you aren't. You don't even have a list.
Oh, you mean you voiced your opinion. Sure.
No, I showed you that I don't agree with your opinion about what the Bible says. I sure don't have a disagreement with the Bible.
I did. But it seems you are in FULL DENIAL mode.
You admit salvation is based on faith, not water baptism.
But you claim that resurection is based on water baptism. That is the contradiction.
Salvation is based on faith and IS the requirement for believer's resurrection.
Hardly. Everyone who was immersed in the flood waters DIED. Or didn't you read the account of Noah???
No. It is an act of obedience.
You are only quoting part of the verse. It begins with literal water being a SYMBOL of the baptism that saves us.
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Berean Study Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Once again, water baptism is a symbol of Spirit baptism.
Of course not. Why even bothering stating what is so very obvious.
Our literal resurrection does NOT involve any water.
Your view has been refuted.
Of course I do.
yes it does, but it seems your eyes are closed. Here we go again:
"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
Blue words tell us WHEN the resurrection of believers will occur.
Red words tell us WHO will be resurrected.
So, it is ONLY "those who belong to Him", being all the saved people from Adam on, will be resurrected.
If you don't think the red words indicate the requirement of who will be resurrected, that's your reading error.
Only BELIEVERS will be resurrected.
So, it's now "flawed views", huh. At one time, you said you agreed with MOST of what I posted. So, just over your own flawed misunderstanding of 1 verse I have "flawed views" of the Bible. What a flip flop.
I was dealing with your posts then. So it's YOU who have flip flopped. I disagree with your weird view of 1 Cor 15:29. How many commentators are as convinced as you are of that verse? Do you have a count?
There were many areas of agreement. But we do disagree on what 1 Cor 15:29 is or isn't about.
That is sick. All because of your view of water baptism being a requirement for resurrection???? Other than 1 Cor 15:29 where else does the Bible support that view?
I posted this:
"I showed your contradiction. Here it is again.
You admit that water baptism is not required for salvaation.
But you insist that water baptism is required for resurrection.
Yet, the Bible says plainly that the resurrection is for "those who belong to Christ".
You would have it that resurrection is for "those who have been water baptized".
But you are blind to your error."
Please source my alleged contradictions. [/QUOTE]
I did. Above. Your own stated views.
If so, then please correct me.
I said:
"Would you please inform me of this "demoninational creed" you think I have? In fact, I've attended an independent church for over 2 decades. But what demonination do you think I am clinging to?"
That is your opinion. How all in the scholarly group of men are on your side? Who else believes what you believe about water baptism and resurrection.
And you didn't mention what you think is my "denomination creed". Why? I asked what you think it is.
Of course you aren't. You don't even have a list.
Oh, you mean you voiced your opinion. Sure.
No, I showed you that I don't agree with your opinion about what the Bible says. I sure don't have a disagreement with the Bible.
I did. But it seems you are in FULL DENIAL mode.
You admit salvation is based on faith, not water baptism.
But you claim that resurection is based on water baptism. That is the contradiction.
Salvation is based on faith and IS the requirement for believer's resurrection.
Hardly. Everyone who was immersed in the flood waters DIED. Or didn't you read the account of Noah???
No. It is an act of obedience.
You are only quoting part of the verse. It begins with literal water being a SYMBOL of the baptism that saves us.
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Berean Study Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
World English Bible
This is a symbol of baptism, which now saves you--not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Once again, water baptism is a symbol of Spirit baptism.
Of course not. Why even bothering stating what is so very obvious.
Our literal resurrection does NOT involve any water.
Your view has been refuted.
Of course I do.
yes it does, but it seems your eyes are closed. Here we go again:
"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
Blue words tell us WHEN the resurrection of believers will occur.
Red words tell us WHO will be resurrected.
So, it is ONLY "those who belong to Him", being all the saved people from Adam on, will be resurrected.
If you don't think the red words indicate the requirement of who will be resurrected, that's your reading error.
Only BELIEVERS will be resurrected.
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But you keep using this:
"and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and stated they should receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
It does not refer to water baptism. This is true of many versus used to support water baptism.
Baptism means "Immersion".
"Immerse yourself in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and you will be given a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Sounds like "Baptized in the Spirit".
"and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and stated they should receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
It does not refer to water baptism. This is true of many versus used to support water baptism.
Baptism means "Immersion".
"Immerse yourself in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin and you will be given a gift of the Holy Spirit.
Sounds like "Baptized in the Spirit".
Very good points!
John spent a lot of time at the northern edge of the Judean wilderness at a place called "Bethabara".
many people came there to be baptized.
This means that John was not a "wanderer", as many think.
He was a priest in the line of the Levites. He was in the line of the "Sons of Zadok".
The were the temple priests that were exiled by the Hasmoneans.
I'm not sure why we don't call this place "Bethabara" today. Everyone seems to like to call it "Qumran".
This was NOT an Essene community (they were at Ein Gede).
The writers of the Dead Sea scrolls actually identify themselves as "The Son's of Zadok" (the exiled Hebrew Priests).
Essenes never would have lied about their identity. Why would they?
OK. that's another topic.
Great Points, though!
John spent a lot of time at the northern edge of the Judean wilderness at a place called "Bethabara".
many people came there to be baptized.
This means that John was not a "wanderer", as many think.
He was a priest in the line of the Levites. He was in the line of the "Sons of Zadok".
The were the temple priests that were exiled by the Hasmoneans.
I'm not sure why we don't call this place "Bethabara" today. Everyone seems to like to call it "Qumran".
This was NOT an Essene community (they were at Ein Gede).
The writers of the Dead Sea scrolls actually identify themselves as "The Son's of Zadok" (the exiled Hebrew Priests).
Essenes never would have lied about their identity. Why would they?
OK. that's another topic.
Great Points, though!
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Wow....you are not challenging me...you are challenging God's word...why can't you understand that?
So here is His word; Your response ...please to each...begin with John 3;5;
Baptism is Required
Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.
KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth
.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.
Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.
Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.
Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.
Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).
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