Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would any believer tell another believer who doesn't believe in a pretrib resurrection/rapture that they will be missing out?

oyster67 said:

When did you or any other poster share a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven? NEVER. So you can quit the charade about "having been shown the truth and rejecting it". That is just bull. You know better, too.

What an ignorant comment! If you really think that God would allow ANY believer to be an exception to His plan, you have much deeper problems than just your "rapture theory".

I have PROVEN from the Bible that there is just ONE resurrection for the saved. Matt 22:30, Luk3 14:14, 1 Cor 15:23
I have PROVEN from the Bible that the resurrection will occur at the Second Advent. 1 Cor 15:23, 2 Thess 2:1, Rev 20:5

What have you proven? All who disagree with my understanding of the verses I have shared over and over are free to address any of the verses and show me where I have erred.

When did you do that?

I believe what the Bible says, just like the Bereans did, in Acts 17:11.

Many believers talk about and obsess over "the rapture" when the Bible makes NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

cv5 said:

OK then, please SHOW the verse or verses that make clear there will be a glorified trip to heaven after the resurrection.

Then, exegete 2:1, please.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

Carry_Your_Name said:
He never promised them a teleportation into heaven.

oyster67 said:

Well, you've sure painted yourself into a corner.

If Jesus DID promise anyone a teleportation into heaven, it would be clearly shown in Scripture.

So, please quote that promise and include citation. Thank you.

oyster67 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Ouch!!!

FreeGrace2 said:

Oooo ha-ha!!!

FreeGrace2 said:

Uncle-unkle!!!

Please have mercy, brother!!!

oyster67 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

I have painted myself into the correct corner! PTL!

John
14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

DavidTree · Apr 8, 2022

oyster67 said:

This has already been fulfilled by the LORD - Read John ch17 and then ch20

DavidTree · Apr 8, 2022

cv5 said:

Let's look at 2 Thess ch1

We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God
for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed

Pre-trib rapture is a lie = stop lying = repent before it's too late.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

oyster67 said:

Of course. You are forgiven.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

oyster67 said:

OK, let's actually examine these verses, NONE of which even mentions rapture, trip to heaven, etc.

v.1 - Jesus encourages his saved 11 disciples to remain firm in their belief in Him.
v.2 - Jesus is affirming that His 11 disciples WILL BE in heaven. None of them had died yet and He wanted them to know that they would be in heaven, where Jesus would go after His resurrection and ascension.
v.3 - Jesus is promising His disciples that He will return to earth. Which was fulfilled AFTER His resurrection and He walked the earth for 40 days.

Now, if you think that v.3 is a reference to Jesus coming back and then taking glorified believers to heaven, consider this tiny problem:

Where do you think the disciples would be UNTIL He comes again to receive them? And where do you think the disciples thought they would be UNTIL He comes to receive them?

Have you thought of any of that?

Therre is nothing here about a rapture or trip to heaven.

ewq1938 · Apr 8, 2022

oyster67 said:

That doesn't support your beliefs.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.

"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:

"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us! That's the opposite of the false pre-trib teaching!

peldom10 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.

Great question. Thank you.

I was bought up in the teaching of a pretrib rapture, and I, too, thought the "he" was the Holy Spirit, who would be removed from the earth at the rapture. Once I grew up and came to my senses, I realized that would be impossible, for the reasons you have noted, plus the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, just like the other members of the Trinity, and can't be taken out of the world.

And, His ministry is primarily one of conviction.

So then, just who is the "he" or "it" as some translations render the word?

The only thing that makes sense is a moral government, one that keeps evil at bay. The USA has been the most recent government that has been able to basically restrain evil governments. Many commentators today are convinced that Russia would not have invaded Ukraine IF IF IF Trump was still president.

And don't forget North Korea. Obama told Trump that Kim Jun Un was his biggest challenge and most people thought N Korea was on the verse of an attack somewhere.

Well, Trump came along and cooled things down.

So, it can't be the Holy Spirit. What else can it be, other than moral government? And I believe that the USA HAS been removed as a moral government that restrains evil.

So there you are.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Jocund · Apr 8, 2022

cv5 said:

I suggest reading the NT to figure out why you need the NT. If you are content with your veiled understanding, that's up to you. If you would like the truth look to the NT.

"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." - 2 Cor 3:14 KJV

TheDivineWatermark · Apr 8, 2022

^ Luke 2:25 - "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

Were Simeon and Anna's minds "blinded" (for example)?

cv5 · Apr 8, 2022

Jocund said:

I suggest reading the NT to figure out why you need the NT. If you are content with your veiled understanding, that's up to you. If you would like the truth look to the NT.

"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ." - 2 Cor 3:14 KJV

You're fired.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.

peldom10 said:

OK, p10. Please point out the specific words that describe a glorified trip to heaven in 2 Thess 2:1, since you pushed the "wrong" button 3 times.

I love you guys. You keep disagreeing, but you NEVER come up with any verse that says what you guys claim.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

See? I can push a button 3 times as well.

Carry_Your_Name · Apr 8, 2022

TheDivineWatermark said:

I think the arrest at the garden of gesthemane was a prophetic picture for that “great apostasy”. The Antichrist will be revealed like Judas, and Christians all run away in fear like the disciples, hence the “great apostasy”; but God will definitely bring them back like he did with the disciples.

I also agree with FreeGrace2, that the restraining power is in human institutions, first family, then church, then governments. Government plays an essential role in restraining evil and maintaining order, that’s the motif of Romans 13, and also why Paul said that those who are outside of the church God will judge. But during the great tribulation, these human institutions will be removed, it will be a replay of the Tower of Babel.

Carry_Your_Name · Apr 8, 2022

oyster67 said:

Please, go study Noah, Lot, Exodus and Rehab in the OT. They were all “spared” and delivered from the wrath of God, none of them was suddenly removed out of existence.

peldom10 · Apr 8, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

FreeGrace2 said:
Well, there's more here to agree with. 1 Thess 4 is the "classic rapture" passage, yet has NO MENTION of a glorified trip to heaven. That is significant.

OK, p10. Please point out the specific words that describe a glorified trip to heaven in 2 Thess 2:1, since you pushed the "wrong" button 3 times.

I love you guys. You keep disagreeing, but you NEVER come up with any verse that says what you guys claim.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

See? I can push a button 3 times as well.

Where did I say ........... there is a trip to Heaven?

Marilyn · Apr 9, 2022

DavidTree said:

OK, now we are getting very close to the Truth = His Coming.

1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Revelation chapter 11 is the Last Trumpet = 7th = this is when the Lord Comes and the Resurrection

Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven:
“The kingdom of the world
has become the kingdom of our Lord
and of His Christ,
and He will reign forever and ever.”

Revelation is not a strict chronological Order from ch1 to ch19 but repeats itself as we see this in chapter 6 as well.

Thus far, together, we see in Scripture that at the LORD's Coming we experience the Resurrection and rapture upon which we triumphantly join Him to Rule and Reign with Him - Amen.

Notice that we have not read any scripture, so far, whereby we see any of the following:
Christ descending to rapture a select group of (any of the following) His Sons/Saints/Bride/Church/Elect BEFORE His Second Coming thereby leaving behind Saints that must go thru great tribulation AND then His Second Coming for the Resurrection and rapture for another group of Saints.

So if you have been holding back scripture to give further detail = Now is the Time.

Hi David,

The `trumpet,` for the Body of Christ is God`s voice, (Rev. 1: 10). The other `trumpets` are to do with the Feast of Trumpets,` for warning of Judgments and to repent.

So where does it say `resurrection?`

I did give the scripture where the Father sends Jesus for His Body at the time of Him restoring rulership for judgment. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)
The is the beginning of the restoration of rulership with Christ on His own throne with His Body. (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn · Apr 9, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on MY THRONE, as I overcame and sat down with my Father on HIS THRONE.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Where is Christ`s OWN THRONE?

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