Why is God's Name NOT in the Bible?

[JeffA]

I don't know that I was intending to make your position to be wrong (your sense of it as you have expressed here). I was chiefly seeking to draw another meaning.

Perhaps if I said this:

Seeing as you expressed in your sixth post on this forum, as cited by myself, (you spoke of dark forces working in the world) a precept that is grounded in a world meaning - And seeing as you have expressed that the name of God has been removed from the bible - then my intention was to allude to that meaning - and yet I expressed a form of words that gave rise to a reasonable presumption of inconsistency.

Having cited your own words I would have thought that it may be reasonable to connect you with a meaning arsing out of them - rather than to try and correct your claims.

As a musician with your son leading worship of the saints - (a meaning that is grounded in a heavenly meaning) then sensing your own direction when you sing songs that you have also written may give you a means to differentiate between worship songs and songs that bear witness and may be called pleadings. I listened to both of the songs you posted in another thread and it was whilst listening in reflection of this thread that it occurred to me that you were personally struggling in your walk - in the sense that whilst I cannot know how your gift is effectual for others to bring them to a true worship of God in the assembly - I ought to reasonably presume that your gift in leading worship would be effectual and pleasing to God - whereas your bearing witness or your pleadings are malformed by a weakness in your projection. You lack vocative conviction in your own songs.

Worship songs need only one direction - towards God - whereas pleadings are towards men - even when they are intentionally meant to bear witness. This is in a simile of Miriam who is cited as the first prophetess in Scripture and her gift was singing. You are a singer and lead worship yet I believe that you are being moved to preaching the word and not singing or pleading to bear witness of God.

So I would separate things this way:

Your leading the worship in song forms part of the prophetic gift - but not a spoken gift in a woman who can also lead the worship as Miriam did - yet as a man you can also speak. Miriam got that wrong and suffered a curse for a week as a consequence. Her brother Arron had authority to speak - even if he was mistaken in trying to direct Moses - so he was not cursed. Numbers chapter twelve.

Perhaps your disquiet which you cited as, "praying and meditating about where [your] life was heading" lies in that transition from leading in worship (not necessarily given up) but rather in being proved in your speech. In that sense I spoke "The ability of Satan to deceive is not uncovered until we ourselves are first uncovered before God." And that was predicated by my saying, "By which I mean that the Lord does not settle one's personal need for a sense of direction by asking us to examine the church."

The only possibility that your gift of leading worship (which forms part of the prophetic ministry) is going to transport into speech (you do emphasis the phonetic meaning of words - a prophetic necessity) - is when you yourself are uncovered before God. Leading worship may well be a necessary conscience to prove effectual - but speech is a necessary ability to be always rejected and despised in the prophetic ministry - yet to always speak for God - just as your own songs are intended - yet they are malformed because they project your concern for yourself. God Bless.

You are a very perceptive and astute person, I gather.
I thank you for listening to my song. It was just a home recording that I made for the copyright. I hope to post others it the future but first I will refine the arrangement and approach. I am not a vocalist, though. That is a very hard instrument to play effectively.

As for my walk; I try live the way God wants me to, although I don't always manage it. I still find it difficult to understand why Jesus would save someone as unworthy as me.

This is my first foray into a discussion forum in many, many years so they way I convey my thoughts into print might not be regarded as proper protocol. The way I see it, I'm going to walk through the doors that God opens for me. I may stumble quite a bit but I put my trust in Him. So, you may see me improving on my path. I think so.

When I was a much younger man I thought I could change the world.
Well... just look at it now!

God Bless you, too.

 

[JeffA]

Rhomphaeam said:
I don't know that I was intending to make your position to be wrong (your sense of it as you have expressed here). I was chiefly seeking to draw another meaning.

Perhaps if I said this:

Seeing as you expressed in your sixth post on this forum, as cited by myself, (you spoke of dark forces working in the world) a precept that is grounded in a world meaning...

I just realized I didn't address this part of your post.

Yes, there are dark forces in the world. We wrestle against principalities in high places.
My current opinion is that Jesus Christ will return much sooner than most people (who even care) think.
I also fear that many of my brothers in Christ will either not recognize, or flatly deny his imminent return.
I did, indeed, posit that the removal of God's name from scripture was at least partly due to these dark forces of deception.
I know that all things are in God's plan so I couldn't prevent the deception even if I tried.
My wish is that everyone pays close attention to what is going on around us.
We all should keep our oil lamps full and be prepared for things that do not fit our current eschatology.
Many of the things we expect to happen have already happened and we don't even know it yet.
This my feeling, not something I have knowledge of.

You will probably make more sense out of this than I can


Thanks for listening. God Bless all of you and good night.

 

[Duckybill]

JESUS is my God, my Savior.

 

[Gideon300]

Throughout the Bible it is clear that GOD wants his name to be known and proclaimed.
In this day and age we can easily figure out that his name is YHWH (Pronounced Yahuah).
His name is always replaced with a Title, "the Lord". (about 6,800 times).
Can anyone explain why this has not been corrected? (IN ANY mainstream Bible).

Your pronunciation may or may not be right. The Jews were so respectful of God's name that they would not include the vowels when they wrote it down. To this day, they will write G-D instead of God.

 

[Amanuensis]

To be clear: Only God is righteous. I only have opinion and did express how I arrived at that opinion.
I didn't see the need to be technical. I thought YHWH was self-explanatory.
I hold no grudge against any pronunciation. That's not the point of the post so I'm sorry if it came off that way.
The point of the post is God has many titles and descriptors but only one name. God, many times, expresses that.
I don't think scripture was written to mean anything other than what it says. I don't see a legitimate argument against God wanting his name known. I understand that there was a time thousands of years ago when pronouncing His name was forbidden.
That time has past for many years and how many Bible revisions?
If you don't think it should be changed, that's fine.

Let me pose a question:
If you were perfectly literate in ancient Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Latin, would you prefer the original texts as your guide?

Yes I would like to be able to read the manuscripts in the original language. I will be able to do so by the time I complete my educational goals.

I am not trying to be hostile to your posts, I am going to point out those inaccuracies that I think lead to wrong conclusions about the way we pronounce YHWH or as you call it "pronounce his name."

Since it can't be known how to pronounce it I would answer your question "is God wanting us to pronounce His name?" with the question "How would you know if you were pronouncing it correctly?" Are you going to claim divine inspiration for your particular pronunciation?

Are you wondering if God is wanting us to figure it out, and is waiting for us to come up with the right answer and start using his Name right? Are you asking whether this is what God is saying to the church in this final hour? Yall need to get my name right?
Don't you think that Jesus or Iēsous would be the name that is being emphasized in the message we are to preach and teach. So that once we take up the question of how to pronounce YHWH on people we have departed from the main message of the name of Jesus?

There have been so many off the wall religious sects that have at their roots their claim to saying the name correctly and everyone who makes an issue of it turns out to be some of the nuttiest fruit cakes that ever picked up a bible. Forgive me if I come across a bit skittish. LOL.

 

[Amanuensis]

Posting my position on a topic is not teaching.
Post #237 explains a little better.

I understand where you are coming from. I think you are just asking the question.

My opinion has been given. I don't begrudge those who think that the question is important. I know that currently there are a great many people world wide who find this topic of utmost importance and spend many hours on it and seem to have made it a bedrock of their religion.

I can't judge the motives of them all. There might be plenty of them who have not usurped the name of Jesus with their pursuit of wanting to get the YHWH pronunciation correct. I don't mean to paint them all with a broad brush.

My experience with those who hammer on getting that name right has not been positive.

 

[olivetree32]

And so it begins..............(again)

Lol

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I thank you for listening to my song. It was just a home recording that I made for the copyright. I hope to post others it the future but first I will refine the arrangement and approach. I am not a vocalist, though. That is a very hard instrument to play effectively.

I read the narrative at the link of the songs and could see that the production was not intended to be a professional production. So, yes that element would improve with a more competent recording structure in place. On the other hand your point about playing the instrument of the voice is worth noting.

I sang in a Cathedral choir as a solo treble as a child and so when I sang I was often taken by how the voice could remove the parishioners from their pews and transport them into a place that gave them the means to rise in there hearts and minds and to seek God. I also saw God in the light falling on them through the stained glass windows in shafts of red, yellow, blue and green light. And I would ask myself - who is God? That was of course as a child - and so I asked childish things.

When I was a much younger man I thought I could change the world.
Well... just look at it now!

The world is not of your making, and so whilst it is inevitable as a mature man to see the condition of things - our obedience is to ask how we may serve others to provide medicine seeing as the body is sick - and even if intervention is still possible. That has been my life burden since I was born again in 1984 as a 24 year old young man. Now as a father of children and a grandfather of children how will I know how to serve them any further than by warning them of their condition and pleading with them to turn away from vain things and to cry out for God?

When I gave my daughter in marriage spotless - never having kissed another man. The father of the groom came to me at the wedding and thanked me for my daughter whom I had given in marriage to his son. He understood in the wedding feast that just as He had a son who had preserved himself for righteousness - so the father of his son's bride also preserved his daughter knowing in advance that he needed to teach his daughter obedience with mercy and not to crush her need for a husband.

That is a picture of our service to the Father in heaven.

Just as Christ was obedient to become our head and the promised Groom in our sanctification for marriage - so our service to His body is our part in serving those we have been called to serve to a maturity - where having already put off the filthy garment and put on Christ - we can also learn how to resist the roaring of the Lion who seeks to devour. We are called to either fish for men or else to be workmen in the building of the House - so that after the time for these things are full - so we can be openly shown to be the Bride of Christ at his coming Kingdom - and therein will lie our own reward.

Rhomphaeam

 

[Butterflyyy]

Thing is this....if it’s important to God.... then it’s important to me🙂

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Holy Name Bibles have already begun to use Yahweh and Yeshua again, to Name the Father and the Son. The Son came in His Father's Name. Recall that the Angel said, "You will call His Name Yeshua (Yahweh Saves or Yahweh is Salvation), because He will save His people from their sins".

Our Lord's Old Covenant Name, the Proper Name of the Father, means "I AM WHO AM". Our Lord's New Covenant Name, the Proper Name of the Son, means "Yahweh Saves", or "Yahweh has become my Savior".

In my opinion, we should use the Personal Names of both Yahweh and Yeshua again, as there is Great Power in the Holy Name, and this Holy Name denotes the One True God.

There is an ancient Jewish Polemic called Toledot Yeshu which says Yeshua did miracles in the Name of YHWH.

From Wiki: "Yeshu later went to the Jerusalem Temple and learned the letters of God's ineffable name (one could do anything desired by them). He gathered 310 young men and proclaimed himself the Messiah, claiming Isaiah’s “a virgin shall conceive and bear a son” and other prophets prophesied about him.

Using God's name he healed a lame man, they worshipped him as the Messiah. The Sanhedrin decided to arrest him, and sent messengers to invite him to Jerusalem. They pretended to be his disciples to trick him."

 

[Mem]

Mem & our elder JaumeJ are native Hebrew-speakers, too - and @oldhermit & @Angela53510 are well educated in languages

Aw gee, it's humbling that you'd include me among these learned in Hebrew and it'd be far from me to want to disassociate myself from them but I'm only a student, and a perpetual freshman at best, but definitely no native speaker of Hebrew. However, I am glad to see that what I did share made such an impression on you, as I am mindful only to share that which I perceive as relevant truths which, regardless of the language spoke, have their origin in God.

At any rate, as to the Op's opinion that this issue would be an 'easy fix,' I recall learning of a name that contains three hundred or so and letters, I can't recall exactly how many let alone which letters and also the account of the answer given Menoah when he asked the Angel of the LORD His name, "Why do you ask, seeing it is so Wonderful?" There is an interesting observation, from the Hebrew instructor I follow, JJ Parsons, that I couldn't help noting to permanent memory is that if you take the first letter of Genesis 'b' and the last letter of Revelation 'n,' you have the Hebrew word 'ben,' or Son, and he, the instructor explains the underlying text (he's fluent in Greek also) of the verse that says, "God speaks to us in the language of the Son,' more accurately reads, "God speaks to us in the language of Son. And I think Father is, primarily, the name Son reveals to us. And, Idk but, I'm not that comfortable calling my Father by (given?) His Name.

 

[Mem]

(given?)

by His (given?) Name.... now there's something to consider, isn't there?

 

[posthuman]

by His (given?) Name.... now there's something to consider, isn't there?

that is interesting - and He, the self-existing-one, would be the one who 'gives' it . . .

and He gave us of His Spirit, which calls out in us to Him, by a name, "Abba"
-- why not the ineffable name?
this is what He chose for us, in this time & age

 

[JeffA]

Thing is this....if it’s important to God.... then it’s important to me🙂

Thank you and Good Morning.
I think that, Ultimately, the post is directed at the fact that God wants us to be sure that we know that we are worshipping the ONE TRUE GOD. The understanding of exactly where our salvation comes from. He does not want us to be led astray. We hear of secret societies (and Churches) where the initiates don't have the full understanding only to find out later that their loyalty has been misplaced.
The details of pronunciation and spelling are unimportant imho. It is important that we know our God.
I do adhere to the belief that there are principalities at work in the world that are bent only leading believers astray.
All of you posting here have helped me very much. I hope that reading this thread will edify everyone in Christ Jesus.

 

[Amanuensis]

I believe that God wants me to use the name Jesus and that it communicates faith to those I preach to, lost or saved. I think communication is the most important thing.

Are you preaching to English speaking people who have at least a vague understanding about who Jesus was? Or are you preaching to Hebrew speaking people?

Most people know who we are talking about when we preach Jesus. Other Hebrew names, leaves them with questions and doubt as to who we are talking about. "Is this a strange teaching I need to be concerned about?"

If we are leaving people with doubt we are probably not doing our best at communicating.

 

[JeffA]

I believe that God wants me to use the name Jesus and that it communicates faith to those I preach to, lost or saved. I think communication is the most important thing.

Are you preaching to English speaking people who have at least a vague understanding about who Jesus was? Or are you preaching to Hebrew speaking people?

Most people know who we are talking about when we preach Jesus. Other Hebrew names, leaves them with questions and doubt as to who we are talking about. "Is this a strange teaching I need to be concerned about?"

If we are leaving people with doubt we are probably not doing our best at communicating.

I'm not a preacher. There is ample evidence here that I probably would not be good at it.
I think there is a difference between teaching/preaching and discussion between students of scripture.
There is a time and a place for each. Personal Testimony is the most effective preaching (imho).
I'm not trying to win people over to Jesus on this thread. I assumed that everyone here is saved and seeking to expand their knowledge and understanding. You know, getting closer to God. I probably should have stated that at the outset.
I'm new at this so please bear with me while I learn the ropes.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I'm new at this so please bear with me while I learn the ropes.

Lord, have mercy on this wretched man.
Caste him not into the bowels of miserable portions,
As he learns the ropes that hang.
Cause thy mighty hand to sift his bowels of reason,
And thy fearsome gaze to burn his vile flesh.
Lest in this place O Lord he may be discouraged.
Yea, Lord in thy mercy lay wast to ashes all pretensions,
Set to cause stumbling in the way.

And raise up happy happy bunnies to prepare for Easter. Amen

The prayer of a joyful Hebridean Calvinist inexplicably turned to hope!

 

[JeffA]

Aw gee, it's humbling that you'd include me among these learned in Hebrew and it'd be far from me to want to disassociate myself from them but I'm only a student, and a perpetual freshman at best, but definitely no native speaker of Hebrew. However, I am glad to see that what I did share made such an impression on you, as I am mindful only to share that which I perceive as relevant truths which, regardless of the language spoke, have their origin in God.

At any rate, as to the Op's opinion that this issue would be an 'easy fix,' I recall learning of a name that contains three hundred or so and letters, I can't recall exactly how many let alone which letters and also the account of the answer given Menoah when he asked the Angel of the LORD His name, "Why do you ask, seeing it is so Wonderful?" There is an interesting observation, from the Hebrew instructor I follow, JJ Parsons, that I couldn't help noting to permanent memory is that if you take the first letter of Genesis 'b' and the last letter of Revelation 'n,' you have the Hebrew word 'ben,' or Son, and he, the instructor explains the underlying text (he's fluent in Greek also) of the verse that says, "God speaks to us in the language of the Son,' more accurately reads, "God speaks to us in the language of Son. And I think Father is, primarily, the name Son reveals to us. And, Idk but, I'm not that comfortable calling my Father by (given?) His Name.

I guess what I termed an "easy fix" is not so easy. lol
I'm certainly no authority on ancient Hebrew. That's for sure. I do know that there are No vowels in the written Hebrew.
Now, mind you, I refer only to Ancient Hebrew of the old testament.
So, with that in mind, Ancient Hebrew was a "spoken" language. That means that vowels were used.
So we know that vowels were at least implied in the written form. That's a start.
I do not buy the statement that no one can know the pronunciation of God's name. There is precedent in plenty of ancient Hebrew that is well accepted.
We can all debate on HOW it is pronounced but not IF it can be or if it was INTENDED to be.
This is not the driving point of the post, though.

It is fun trivia to know that the first and last letters in the Bible can be put together to form "Son", even though the last letter was in Greek. I don't see any deep meaning in it, however.

I believe that there is an important difference between a "name" and a "title" or "descriptor". The name being unique.
Jesus, himself, prayed using "ABBA" (Father). This is absolutely appropriate.
Jesus even imparts a warning to call no one "Father" but Him.
Him who? Certainly not "Lucifer" or any other Elohim (Heavenly being).
Jesus and his disciples were well versed in scripture and knew God's name.
Jesus is the Life, the Truth, the Way to Him.

God is not "He who's name shall not be spoken". The closest thing we have is YHWH and several ways to pronounce it.

Anyway, I just think it is important for me to understand the identity of who I call God, Lord, Master, Creator, etc.
And God became flesh.

 

[JeffA]

Lord, have mercy on this wretched man.
Caste him not into the bowels of miserable portions,
As he learns the ropes that hang.
Cause thy mighty hand to sift his bowels of reason,
And thy fearsome gaze to burn his vile flesh.
Lest in this place O Lord he may be discouraged.
Yea, Lord in thy mercy lay wast to ashes all pretensions,
Set to cause stumbling in the way.

And raise up happy happy bunnies to prepare for Easter. Amen

The prayer of a joyful Hebridean Calvinist inexplicably turned to hope!

Bunnies? for Ishtar?

 

[Beckie]

Your pronunciation may or may not be right. The Jews were so respectful of God's name that they would not include the vowels when they wrote it down. To this day, they will write G-D instead of God.

This post caught my attention. Yes they were respectful of His name but history shows over and over they were not respectful of Him. So like the christians of today putting a false face forward playing the game. Divorce, abortion, moneychangers, lookin holy one day a week.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.