Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[Marilyn]

Some of it does, but definitely not all of it.

Again, we read:

Matthew chapter 25

[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Anyhow, John 14:1-3 says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Jesus taking anybody to heaven.

Instead, it talks about what will happen when he comes to this earth from heaven.

Just another imaginary U-Turn back to heaven for the pre-tribbers which is found nowhere in scripture.

Hi Live4Him2,

Remember we are NOT the nations. We, the Body of Christ have been `called OUT `of Israel and OUT of the nations. The 12 disciples knew NOTHING of the Body of Christ, only what the Lord revealed concerning His purpose for Israel.

And the Body of Christ goes to Its eternal setting in glory, (Rev. 3: 21) Christ`s very own seat of power in the highest realm. We NEVER come back to earth and thus do NO u-turn.

 

[Marilyn]

Yes that much was clear already. Sensing something and ignoring the sense is rather like feeling the heat of the Sun before waking up in the night vomiting from polymorphous light eruption. Either don't go into the Sun after sensing its strength or else be prepared to wake up vomiting. That would be a practical choice to make - but if we are determined to be prophetic - then we are bound to find some distress. No need to repeat your senses, sister. I got it plain and clear the first time you gave your careful expression its visibility.

I rest my case of `spirit of confusion,` with the above nonsense.

 

[Marilyn]

It's my understanding that we remain in heaven for seven years and then return with Christ to reign with Him for a thousand years.

Hi Lori,

We, the Body of Christ do NOT come back to earth. It is the angelic army that comes with the Lord to deliver Israel and bring vengeance upon the rebellious nations.

`they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power & great glory. And He will send His angels..` (Matt.24: 30 & 31)

`When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him...` (Matt. 25: 31)

`the Son of Man comes in His glory, & in the glory of the holy angels.` (Luke 9: 26)

`when Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God,..` (2 Thess. 1: 7)

Satan is doing his hardest to get believers to think they are coming back - to this sinful, sick, and pain filled world.

 

[Marilyn]

The new Jerusalem will be for the resurrected believers including you.

I see the place as actual locations not a body.

The NJ comes down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2)

We, the Body of Christ are with Him on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

Do you have a scripture(s) to prove that we come out of heaven and are in the NJ?

 

[Marilyn]

Well, it cannot be the Church for She is a SHE and not a HE.
God never refers to His Bride as a HE - that would be a perversion of Scripture

`to create in Himself ONE NEW MAN...` (Eph. 2: 15)

Christ is the Head, (male) of His BODY, (new man/male).

Men are not becoming female and marrying Jesus. That would be transgender and homosexual. Nutty.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hi Live4Him2,

Remember we are NOT the nations. We, the Body of Christ have been `called OUT `of Israel and OUT of the nations. The 12 disciples knew NOTHING of the Body of Christ, only what the Lord revealed concerning His purpose for Israel.

And the Body of Christ goes to Its eternal setting in glory, (Rev. 3: 21) Christ`s very own seat of power in the highest realm. We NEVER come back to earth and thus do NO u-turn.

amen. Not to this present world where we are strangers and pilgrims passing through.

“By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

….These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:8-9, 13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-5‬ ‭

our home is in heaven in that city he’s prepared for us , until that day when all things are restored anew

 

[DavidTree]

Saint i want to ask a serious question that ive never really asked before. Of anyone .

I know your stance on pre trib and all that but in all honesty do you think God would allow the faithful to go through the trib. To watch their love ones be violated, tortured, murdered, starved, humiliated, beyond your wildest dreams.
Do you honestly think he would allow us to face that kind of torment and use that as a pulpit to preach a loving father who want to forgive our sins and save us?
Do you honestly think that you a mere man not devine could over come that? That your faith is that great.?
Look back at the holocaust times that by 100 and put yourself in there as a jew and your loved ones and friends for several years.
Scripture tells us.... to be saved from the wrath which is to come. Whos wrath? Gods wrath.

He has been watching this go on for thousands of years now.

His promise to us is to be saved from God's wrath.
The wrath of man and the wrath of satan is painful but temporary, whereas God's wrath is eternal and forever.

Right now, somewhere on this earth, there are our Brothers and Sisters suffering, persecuted, hungry, in prison and losing their life for their love of Christ.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:10

 

[DavidTree]

`to create in Himself ONE NEW MAN...` (Eph. 2: 15)

Christ is the Head, (male) of His BODY, (new man/male).

Men are not becoming female and marrying Jesus. That would be transgender and homosexual. Nutty.

lol - Yes my Sister

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The NJ comes down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2)

We, the Body of Christ are with Him on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

Do you have a scripture(s) to prove that we come out of heaven and are in the NJ?

When we die in this life we go here where Jesus is ruling

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,

and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the end of this world that city is going to return to the new earth and once again like in Eden Gods full presence will be upon earth with man

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[DavidTree]

`to create in Himself ONE NEW MAN...` (Eph. 2: 15)

Christ is the Head, (male) of His BODY, (new man/male).

Men are not becoming female and marrying Jesus. That would be transgender and homosexual. Nutty.

When i said, Yes my Sister = i was agreeing with you.

We become the ONE NEW MAN when we are transformed into His Image at His Second Coming.

Until that DAY Arrives, we are His Bride and have been betrothed to Him.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Lori]

Notice that the scripture does not say 'raptured away' or removed off the earth

Well, actually, according to the New Testiment Greek Lexicon, the original Greek word in scripture is Harpazo.

Definition

1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He has been watching this go on for thousands of years now.

His promise to us is to be saved from God's wrath.
The wrath of man and the wrath of satan is painful but temporary, whereas God's wrath is eternal and forever.

Right now, somewhere on this earth, there are our Brothers and Sisters suffering, persecuted, hungry, in prison and losing their life for their love of Christ.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:10

Amen suffering and tribulation in this world has been a thing for gods people since the fall in genesis.

“Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

and others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword:

they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (of whom the world was not worthy)

they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:35-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Still is to the church on this world

“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a study of what happened to the early church by Rome should clarify what the great tribulation was and that it echoes even to today across the world. Has affected all generations

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I rest my case of `spirit of confusion,` with the above nonsense.

If you are a lawyer then disbar yourself because you are not sufficiently sharp enough to be one. If not a lawyer and imagine yourself a teacher then try to remember this, sister, comprehension is not a causal fault of the untutored. If prophet, then come to the ravine and stop playing with words. This man is no teacher - and neither am I anyones pupil other than of the Lord. Wordy! You say! You have got a clue how to use them.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

If you are a lawyer then disbar yourself because you are not sufficiently sharp enough to be one. If not a lawyer and imagine yourself a teacher then try to remember this, sister, comprehension is not a causal fault of the untutored. If prophet, then come to the ravine and stop playing with words. This man is no teacher - and neither am I anyones pupil other than of the Lord. Wordy! You say! You have got a clue how to use them.

To correct the morphological awareness arising from words (you understand what confusion ought to mean of course) "You have got a clue how to use them." should be - you haven't &c. But then you knew that already. Just as you can sense why I refuse your teaching.

 

[peldom10]

I do not believe in rapture as most folks here do. I do believe our Lord will return. Your sentence about the numbers make me smile. I was only 2 in 1948 but i well remember about 7 years later hearing my parents ( dad a pentecostal pastor ) talk of rapture any time . then again 40 years about 1988 the talk was rapture because of the generation thing. When that did not happen then generation became 80 years.

Somewhere along the line of life i started doubting what i had been taught. Not doubting the Word of God but how some folks explained it. I believe the Olivet Discourse was God prophesying the destruction of Jerusalem about 70 ad. In reading Scripture seems God always warned the Israelites of what was coming.

I experienced some of the same. However, their miss judgement...since end time prophecies had not occurred all at once...as are happening now...did not justify imminent application. Unless one applied the fact that there is no time in the spirit world. That is the reason scriptures referred to the rapture as being immediate.
But, human error does not change the Bible. Scripture tells us signs ....and that we must be diligent watchers of..... presented by Christ Himself. The signs are all over the page of end times of this world as we know it.

The Bible teaches me that the time frame denoted by the establishment of Israel back as a country in May 1948 is significant. One only has to view the decline of morals in this society since that time frame as support of end times.

Having said that...we are reminded ......the Bible says...... no man, not the angels in Heaven or the Son of man knows the day and hour...our Father only knows.

 

[peldom10]

timed out....

.......2nd advent of Christ.......not rapture.

 

[Jocund]

Saint i want to ask a serious question that ive never really asked before. Of anyone .

I know your stance on pre trib and all that but in all honesty do you think God would allow the faithful to go through the trib. To watch their love ones be violated, tortured, murdered, starved, humiliated, beyond your wildest dreams.
Do you honestly think he would allow us to face that kind of torment and use that as a pulpit to preach a loving father who want to forgive our sins and save us?
Do you honestly think that you a mere man not devine could over come that? That your faith is that great.?
Look back at the holocaust times that by 100 and put yourself in there as a jew and your loved ones and friends for several years.
Scripture tells us.... to be saved from the wrath which is to come. Whos wrath? Gods wrath.

Good questions, and scripture answers that.

I imagine in the book of Daniel, the sight of an overheated furnace would be a terrifying sight and yet when the three men were thrown into the furnace they were protected by God. When Daniel was thrown in with the lions it would have been a terrifying sight and yet God protected Daniel.

When we consider that Revelation and the book of Daniel have many overlapping themes and imagery, we see that it would be perfectly fitting to "walk through the valley of the shadow of death" and have no fear rather than to be pulled up into the sky before having to make that walk. We didn't see the three men raptured before the furnace, we didn't see Daniel raptured before the lions den. That didn't mean they were unprotected.

And more than that, even with the two witnesses, they were killed first and then raptured. Mortal death in some cases is just a step along the way. And based on Rev 21:4, there will be traumatic experiences but God wipes away the tears.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." - Psalms 23:4 KJV

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - Acts 16:31 KJV

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Rev 21:4 KJV

Do you honestly think that you a mere man not devine could over come that?

It isn't your strength that gets you through, it is God's strength in you.

 

[peldom10]

Good questions, and scripture answers that.

I imagine in the book of Daniel, the sight of an overheated furnace would be a terrifying sight and yet when the three men were thrown into the furnace they were protected by God. When Daniel was thrown in with the lions it would have been a terrifying sight and yet God protected Daniel.

When we consider that Revelation and the book of Daniel have many overlapping themes and imagery, we see that it would be perfectly fitting to "walk through the valley of the shadow of death" and have no fear rather than to be pulled up into the sky before having to make that walk. We didn't see the three men raptured before the furnace, we didn't see Daniel raptured before the lions den. That didn't mean they were unprotected.

And more than that, even with the two witnesses, they were killed first and then raptured. Mortal death in some cases is just a step along the way. And based on Rev 21:4, there will be traumatic experiences but God wipes away the tears.

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." - Psalms 23:4 KJV

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - Acts 16:31 KJV

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Rev 21:4 KJV



It isn't your strength that gets you through, it is God's strength in you.

Great summary of comparisons.
The scripture says...I will keep you from the hour of temptation that shall come upon all the earth..........
Thus making the point that the born again righteous will be spared the wrath of the tribulation.
God's way/method to do that is God's way.

 

[DavidTree]

Well, actually, according to the New Testiment Greek Lexicon, the original Greek word in scripture is Harpazo.

Definition

1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away

Lori - i am not sure what you are refering to? Please read below, as i see no 'harpazo' and absolutely no reference to removal from the earth or any type of 'snatching away here.

"he is taken out of the way" = 2 Thess 2:7

he is taken
γένηται (genētai)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Middle - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1096: A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be, i.e. to become, used with great latitude.

out of
ἐκ (ek)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1537: From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.

[the] way.
μέσου (mesou)
Adjective - Genitive Neuter Singular
Strong's Greek 3319: Middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of. From meta; middle (neuter) noun).


The LORD and the Apostles Paul and John are 3 Witnesses who have never spoken or penned a single pre-trib rapture verse.

Can you direct us to one?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The NJ comes down out of heaven from God. (Rev. 21: 2)

We, the Body of Christ are with Him on His own throne in the highest. (Rev. 3: 21)

Do you have a scripture(s) to prove that we come out of heaven and are in the NJ?

Very true now where is God's throne said to be?


Revelation 21:2-3
New International Version

2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.