Questions for you all about balaam

[CS1]

reading about Balaam, I saw something I did not see before and I would like to ask you all about

Numbers 22:1-11 KJV/NIV say the samething



22 And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in the plains of Moab on this side Jordan by Jericho. 2 And Balak the son of Zippor saw all that Israel had done to the Amorites. 3 And Moab was sore afraid of the people, because they were many: and Moab was distressed because of the children of Israel. 4 And Moab said unto the elders of Midian, Now shall this company lick up all that are round about us, as the ox licketh up the grass of the field. And Balak the son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at that time. 5 He sent messengers therefore unto Balaam the son of Beor to Pethor, which is by the river of the land of the children of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, there is a people come out from Egypt: behold, they cover the †face of the earth, and they abide over against me: 6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed. 7 And the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the rewards of divination in their hand; and they came unto Balaam, and spake unto him the words of Balak. 8 And he said unto them, Lodge here this night, and I will bring you word again, as the Lord shall speak unto me: and the princes of Moab abode with Balaam. 9 And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee? 10 And Balaam said unto God, Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab, hath sent unto me, saying, 11 Behold, there is a people come out of Egypt, which covereth the face of the earth: come now, curse me them; peradventure †I shall be able to overcome them, and drive them out.

God told Balaam not to put a curse on the people they were blessed and do not go out with Balak.

Here is my questions:

1. how did Balaam have the ability to curse people?
2. Divination God hates
3. God came and told Balaam not to curse His people
4. God spoke to a man who did divination yet Balaam called and knew the Lord God

 

[oldhermit]

Apart from the biblical record, very little is known of Balaam. This guy has always been an enigma to me. He shows up in scripture as something of an anomaly whose origin and ancestry are very uncertain. The text says he was from Pethor, which was a city in Mesopotamia on the Euphrates River some 400 miles north of Moab (About a 20-day journey at 25 miles per day). He may not have been a Moabite, but if he is from Pethor, then he may have shared a common ancestry with the Moabites through Lot who came from Mesopotamia to the land of Moab. Apparently, Balaam had a reputation that preceded him even as far away as Moab. Balak had known either by personal encounter or by reputation concerning Balaam that “whom you bless is blessed, and he whom you curse is cursed.” If Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then this would have certainly been true.

Like Melchizedek, Balaam comes on the scene out of nowhere as a worshiper of God with no seeming connection to Abraham. If this Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then he appears to have had more in common with such men as Gehazi or the unnamed old prophet of Bethel in 1 Kings 13:24 who deceived the prophet of Judah to his death than he does with Melchizedek.

Balaam seems to have mixed the worship of the one true God with the art of divination. This is something we do not see in any other prophet of Jehovah. Balaam uses the name ‘Jehovah’ repeatedly, and in verse 18 he refers to Jehovah as “The Lord My God.” which indicates, at the very least, some measure of familiarity with the one true God, but in Joshua 13:22, he is regarded as a diviner or soothsayer, “The sons of Israel also killed Balaam the son of Beor, the diviner….”

Divining is a craft of the idolater, and one forbidden by Jehovah. In fact, God had forbidden Israel to have anything to do with such evil practices or to even tolerate the presence of those among them who did.

Despite this however, there seems to have been some relationship between Balaam and the Lord. In fact, his initial discourse with the Lord in chapter 22, which the Lord himself initiated, seems to have been no different than that of any other prophet. It also seems to have been an experience with which Balaam was familiar. He obviously expected to receive a response from the Lord and was not surprised when he received it.

Balaam is called a prophet in 2 Peter 2:16 as well as in Numbers 22:7. The question then is this, was Balaam a false prophet from the beginning or, was he a genuine prophet of God who went bad. Scripture never seems to have anything good to say about this man, but it would seem he falls within the category of the latter.

 

[CS1]

Apart from the biblical record, very little is known of Balaam. This guy has always been an enigma to me. He shows up in scripture as something of an anomaly whose origin and ancestry are very uncertain. The text says he was from Pethor, which was a city in Mesopotamia on the Euphrates River some 400 miles north of Moab (About a 20-day journey at 25 miles per day). He may not have been a Moabite, but if he is from Pethor, then he may have shared a common ancestry with the Moabites through Lot who came from Mesopotamia to the land of Moab. Apparently, Balaam had a reputation that preceded him even as far away as Moab. Balak had known either by personal encounter or by reputation concerning Balaam that “whom you bless is blessed, and he whom you curse is cursed.” If Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then this would have certainly been true.

Like Melchizedek, Balaam comes on the scene out of nowhere as a worshiper of God with no seeming connection to Abraham. If this Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then he appears to have had more in common with such men as Gehazi or the unnamed old prophet of Bethel in 1 Kings 13:24 who deceived the prophet of Judah to his death than he does with Melchizedek.

Balaam seems to have mixed the worship of the one true God with the art of divination. This is something we do not see in any other prophet of Jehovah. Balaam uses the name ‘Jehovah’ repeatedly, and in verse 18 he refers to Jehovah as “The Lord My God.” which indicates, at the very least, some measure of familiarity with the one true God, but in Joshua 13:22, he is regarded as a diviner or soothsayer, “The sons of Israel also killed Balaam the son of Beor, the diviner….”

Divining is a craft of the idolater, and one forbidden by Jehovah. In fact, God had forbidden Israel to have anything to do with such evil practices or to even tolerate the presence of those among them who did.

Despite this however, there seems to have been some relationship between Balaam and the Lord. In fact, his initial discourse with the Lord in chapter 22, which the Lord himself initiated, seems to have been no different than that of any other prophet. It also seems to have been an experience with which Balaam was familiar. He obviously expected to receive a response from the Lord and was not surprised when he received it.

Balaam is called a prophet in 2 Peter 2:16 as well as in Numbers 22:7. The question then is this, was Balaam a false prophet from the beginning or, was he a genuine prophet of God who went bad. Scripture never seems to have anything good to say about this man, but it would seem he falls within the category of the latter.

thank you for your input what do you think the "error of Balaams is" from Jude chapter one. I thank you in advance for your response.

 

[oyster67]

Here is my questions:

1. how did Balaam have the ability to curse people?
2. Divination God hates
3. God came and told Balaam not to curse His people
4. God spoke to a man who did divination yet Balaam called and knew the Lord God

1. The King certainly thought he did. No one can counter the will of God.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. God warned him not to try.
4. Balaam had good reason to. If my donkey started talking to me, I would my britches too!

 

[oldhermit]

thank you for your input what do you think the "error of Balaams is" from Jude chapter one. I thank you in advance for your response.

The word translated here as “ran greedily” is ἐξεχύθησαν which is a passive verb meaning literally to 'pour out.' Thus, these are poured out like a stream after reward. Greed is their motivation. In Balaam, rebellion is characterized by greed, disobedience, deception, and murder which is here translated from πλάνη. Balaam deceived the children of Israel into fornication with the daughters of Moab. He deceived them to their death and 24,000 died. The false teachers of whom Jude writes were doing the same thing to the saints that Balaam did to Israel.

 

[oyster67]

Do you think Balaam became a follower of God at some point?

 

[oldhermit]

Do you think Balaam became a follower of God at some point?

Did you read post #2? That should serve to answer your question.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

1. Anyone can lay a curse or pronounce a curse.

2. Divination is simply attempting to consort with the "divine". In this verse what is happening is the kings know that Balaam has ability to contact the divine, therefore they bring money to bribe Balaam into casting an enchantment through his God upon Israel. Little do they or Balaam know at this point, but this God is the same God of Israel that is the same God leading the Israelites into the Promised Land.

3. Balaam only really tried to curse Israel because he was hired to do it. Yet when he performs the sacrifices and tries to cast the enchantment the Lord God speaks to him and causes him to actually bless Israel, much to the dismay of the kings which hired him.

4. Yes God spoke to Balaam, and Balaam was indeed a true prophet, and Balaam was not always evil. Even right here he is not really evil because instead of cursing Israel he blesses Israel like God commanded. Balaam's evil is that after the enchantment fails Balaam helps devise another scheme which will turn God against Israel. This is the actual fault of Balaam where he succeeds but also fails in a sense. What they do is they entice the Israelites to commit whoredom and to also eat meat sacrificed to their idols at Peor. Because of this God's hand turns against Israel and God sends plagues upon Israel. In the midst of all this one man even goes so far as to parade his lover in front of the face of Moses, until Phinehas takes up a spear and runs him and his lover through. God has respect unto Phinehas for doing this and so ends the plague and commands the Israelites to battle these people for vexing them with their wiles. Balaam then perishes in the ensuing battle. Balaam even after his donkey is allowed to speak and saves him, even after God speaks to him and causes him to bless Israel and thus save him, Balaam is still stubborn because he wanted the money. Nevertheless, the money becomes a snare unto himself, and he falls into his own trap and dies by the edge of the Sword, slain in the midst with those who hired him. In this sense Balaam succeeded in getting God to smite Israel and thus earn his money, but he also failed because his money became his own trap to his soul and caused him to die by the Sword.

 

[oyster67]

Do you think Balaam became a follower of God at some point?

Did you read post #2? That should serve to answer your question.

Apart from the biblical record, very little is known of Balaam. This guy has always been an enigma to me. He shows up in scripture as something of an anomaly whose origin and ancestry are very uncertain. The text says he was from Pethor, which was a city in Mesopotamia on the Euphrates River some 400 miles north of Moab (About a 20-day journey at 25 miles per day). He may not have been a Moabite, but if he is from Pethor, then he may have shared a common ancestry with the Moabites through Lot who came from Mesopotamia to the land of Moab. Apparently, Balaam had a reputation that preceded him even as far away as Moab. Balak had known either by personal encounter or by reputation concerning Balaam that “whom you bless is blessed, and he whom you curse is cursed.” If Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then this would have certainly been true.

Like Melchizedek, Balaam comes on the scene out of nowhere as a worshiper of God with no seeming connection to Abraham. If this Balaam was indeed a prophet of God, then he appears to have had more in common with such men as Gehazi or the unnamed old prophet of Bethel in 1 Kings 13:24 who deceived the prophet of Judah to his death than he does with Melchizedek.

Balaam seems to have mixed the worship of the one true God with the art of divination. This is something we do not see in any other prophet of Jehovah. Balaam uses the name ‘Jehovah’ repeatedly, and in verse 18 he refers to Jehovah as “The Lord My God.” which indicates, at the very least, some measure of familiarity with the one true God, but in Joshua 13:22, he is regarded as a diviner or soothsayer, “The sons of Israel also killed Balaam the son of Beor, the diviner….”

Divining is a craft of the idolater, and one forbidden by Jehovah. In fact, God had forbidden Israel to have anything to do with such evil practices or to even tolerate the presence of those among them who did.

Despite this however, there seems to have been some relationship between Balaam and the Lord. In fact, his initial discourse with the Lord in chapter 22, which the Lord himself initiated, seems to have been no different than that of any other prophet. It also seems to have been an experience with which Balaam was familiar. He obviously expected to receive a response from the Lord and was not surprised when he received it.

Balaam is called a prophet in 2 Peter 2:16 as well as in Numbers 22:7. The question then is this, was Balaam a false prophet from the beginning or, was he a genuine prophet of God who went bad. Scripture never seems to have anything good to say about this man, but it would seem he falls within the category of the latter.

Could you provide a short answer pleeze?

 

[CS1]

Balaam hAD SAID SOEM VERY POWERFUL WORDS IN CONTEXT TO TRUTH ABOUT GOD

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[CS1]

yet Jude said he errored. what was His error? Teaching the enemies of God people how to tempt them with sin to get God to judge them.

 

[oyster67]

Balaam is still stubborn because he wanted the money. Nevertheless, the money becomes a snare unto himself, and he falls into his own trap and dies by the edge of the Sword, slain in the midst with those who hired him. In this sense Balaam succeeded in getting God to smite Israel and thus earn his money, but he also failed because his money became his own trap to his soul and caused him to die by the Sword.

So greed for lucre might be the "Error of Balaam" then?

 

[Magenta]

Interesting read on Balaam here (<= link )

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

So greed for lucre might be the "Error of Balaam" then?

That was his personal error, yes. He loved the wages of unrighteousness as it is termed in the Bible.

The more proper "Sin of Balaam" though in the Bible that is often recalled, and especially in context to the end times as it is prophesied that society and even the churches will fall for this same sin much like Israel, is what happened at Peor.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

That was his personal error, yes. He loved the wages of unrighteousness as it is termed in the Bible.

The more proper "Sin of Balaam" though in the Bible that is often recalled, and especially in context to the end times as it is prophesied that society and even the churches will fall for this same sin much like Israel, is what happened at Peor.

Baal Worship at Peor

And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 7And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Now the name of the Israelite that was slain, even that was slain with the Midianitish woman, was Zimri, the son of Salu, a prince of a chief house among the Simeonites. And the name of the Midianitish woman that was slain was Cozbi, the daughter of Zur; he was head over a people, and of a chief house in Midian.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Vex the Midianites, and smite them: For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their sister, which was slain in the day of the plague for Peor's sake.

 

[CS1]

thank you to all who have responded so far

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Baal Worship at Peor

And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel. And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baalpeor.

And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 7And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel. And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned my wrath away from the children of Israel, while he was zealous for my sake among them, that I consumed not the children of Israel in my jealousy. Wherefore say, Behold, I give unto him my covenant of peace: And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Now the name of the Israelite that was slain, even that was slain with the Midianitish woman, was Zimri, the son of Salu, a prince of a chief house among the Simeonites. And the name of the Midianitish woman that was slain was Cozbi, the daughter of Zur; he was head over a people, and of a chief house in Midian.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Vex the Midianites, and smite them: For they vex you with their wiles, wherewith they have beguiled you in the matter of Peor, and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their sister, which was slain in the day of the plague for Peor's sake.

Yes, that is the episode at Peor. Numbers 31 then gives us the resolution and what happened to Balaam and shows us it was Balaam who was behind this.

Numbers 31:6-20

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Yes, that is the episode at Peor. Numbers 31 then gives us the resolution and what happened to Balaam and shows us it was Balaam who was behind this.

Numbers 31:6-20

6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.

7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

19 And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.

20 And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.

Indeed. For myself I was indicating the answer to the OP question and silently correlating that inference in both your posts @#8 and @#14. The outcome of that inference isn't stated - but it is hidden somewhat in your comments.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Indeed. For myself I was indicating the answer to the OP question and silently correlating that inference in both your posts @#8 and @#14. The outcome of that inference isn't stated - but it is hidden somewhat in your comments.

I see. I was not trying or intending to hide it, perhaps just a mouthful to summarize the life and character of Balaam in the Bible though as his story does span quite a few chapters in Numbers. You are correct though, and it takes really chapter 31 to get the fullness of realizing what exactly happened. This is the life of Balaam, how he was indeed a prophet, how God twice prevented him from sinning, but because he wanted the wages of unrighteousness so much he stubbornly continued each time, ultimately devised the scheme at Peor to get Israel to turn against God by committing whoredom, how his trap became even his own trap and he died in the midst of those who hired him against the Lord by the edge of the Sword.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I see. I was not trying or intending to hide it, perhaps just a mouthful to summarize the life and character of Balaam in the Bible though as his story does span quite a few chapters in Numbers. You are correct though, and it takes really chapter 31 to get the fullness of realizing what exactly happened. This is the life of Balaam, how he was indeed a prophet, how God twice prevented him from sinning, but because he wanted the wages of unrighteousness so much he stubbornly continued each time, ultimately devised the scheme at Peor to get Israel to turn against God by committing whoredom, how his trap became even his own trap and he died in the midst of those who hired him against the Lord by the edge of the Sword.

That is a clear summary. Do you have any thoughts on the more difficult application to todays church - other than the obvious claim to a love of money by many prophetic ministries?