Is it LAWFUL to kill animals?
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It is very difficult to eat them without killing them. It really creeps me out the way they wiggle and jiggle around inside me tummy.
Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Jeremiah 15:2 And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord: “‘Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those who are for captivity, to captivity.’
Isaiah 33:1 Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you.
Matthew 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Jeremiah 15:2 And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord: “‘Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those who are for captivity, to captivity.’
Isaiah 33:1 Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you.
Matthew 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Exodus
29:11 And thou shalt kill the bullock before the LORD, [by] the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
29:20 Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put [it] upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.
Exodus 23:10 Thou shalt not kill.
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
God made the animals and put them into the possession of man. It is not murder to do what you want with what is yours. It is not against God to eat meat. The animals do not constitute innocent blood, the animals are possessions in the stewardship of man.
Abel was righteous and in fact because Abel was good and because God showed favor upon Abel's sacrifice of the blood of his flock but did not show favor on Cain's sacrifice of the plants, Cain became wroth with his brother Abel just because Abel was good, and so Cain slew him. This is the first time innocent blood was shed and the lady of the earth drank Abel's innocent blood.
first let me say i completely agree that all animals are living souls with the breath of life in them.
and i agree that the original intent in this creation, and also our final end, will be such that we eat fruits nad grains and vegetables.
however for now, in the present time, i am interested to know what your thoughts are, of this:
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter,
“It is the Lord!”
Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment (for he had removed it), and plunged into the sea. But the other disciples came in the little boat (for they were not far from land, but about two hundred cubits), dragging the net with fish. Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. Jesus said to them,
“Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.”
Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. Jesus said to them,
“Come eat breakfast.”
Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?”—knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them, and likewise the fish.
(John 21:7-13)
why is Jesus killing, cooking and eating fish - commanding His disciples to do the same also, saying bring some of the fish He had commanded them to catch - why is He doing this to these fish if it is an abomination? is He committing murder and teaching His apostles also to be murderers?
is Christ abominable?
or do you maybe have a flaw in your assertions?
not the first.
remember the garments God made for Adam & Eve -- and isn't this what Abel was doing? commemorating that first sacrifice God, their priest, made for them, to cover their shame?
The thing with this is that is God, God can do anything he wants, so it's not the best example when wondering if it is ethical for mankind to kill animals. On specifically mankind killing animals, Abel is the first mention of this action.
The sacrifices made by the brothers Abel and Cain is also the first-time man is recorded as making a sacrifice to God. It is not a commemoration, but rather both brothers are making an offering. The offering comes out of their possession and substance. One brother, Abel, is a keeper of sheep, so he offers the best of the flock as a sacrifice. Cain is a tender of plants, so he offers the plants which he tends. God has favor to Abel's sacrifice, but not to Cain's. Abel's sacrifice is more genuine, he is bearing a real loss, literally, making a real sacrifice, by giving the best and the first of his flock, showing that he has much faith in the God.
if Cain also brings the produce from his own work, why does God have regard for Abel's but not his?
what makes Abel's sacrifice 'more genuine' than Cain's if both are offering the things of their own labors?
does your position force us to think of farming as an ungodly vocation?
but it was the first vocation, ordained by God - He put Adam in the garden to tend it.
where would the brothers have gotten the idea to do this, if it is not a commemoration?
if Abel had the idea himself to kill and dissect a lamb, which he does not use for food, why does God have regard for that?
is God pleased with the shedding of innocent blood, per se?
is their offering a happy occasion? is Abel rejoicing to slay the lamb? does he know the lamb's name - which his father Adam gave it?
why does God say to Cain, "if you do well" -- doesn't this imply Cain knows what he is supposed to do, but neglected to do it?
how would Cain know what is acceptable? what is different about Abel's offering? what does Cain lack?
if Cain is offering food that they will actually eat, vs. Abel killing a lamb that they do not use for food
- isn't Cain the one bearing a 'real loss' ?
why is Abel keeping sheep? whose idea is this?
are they spinning wool for garments? how many sheep do you need for that? how many tunics do they need?
did Adam & Eve's garments - made by the hand of God - wear out?
what is the natural lifespan of a sheep at this time? if men lived nearly 1,000 years then, how long did other animals live?
do you get more wool from a firstling of the flock or from an adult sheep?
Abel offered the first of his flock, the goodliest. This is a more genuine sacrifice as Abel is giving up something of high value and importance out of his possessions. Apart from the earthly show of it, spiritually it shows Abel has a lot of faith in God because he is willing to give up, literally sacrifice, the very best thing he has in his earthly possessions.
Well the brothers were not born yet when God made the coats of skins for Adam and Eve, so that's one point. Another point is the text says it is an offering and says both brothers came and gave offerings of their possessions to the Lord. God has regard for Abel's sacrifice because it is a more excellent sacrifice, it is a more genuine sacrifice. If you think about what it means to sacrifice past the superficial ritual of it, and look into the deeper things of sacrifice, it means to give something up of high value to you. Abel's offering was more in the spirit of sacrifice. Abel is showing through his action of sacrificing the best of his flock that he trusts God, he has faith in God, this sacrifice and action shows that God is more important to him than the things of the earth for he is willing to give up the very best thing he owns in this earth in order to give an offering to God.
To return to the topic, Abel may well have eaten meat before this, he was a tender of animals, and he obviously knows how to slaughter and prepare an animal. God gave man possession of the earth and all the creations in it. Though in fairness it never does say pointblank Abel ate meat, but nevertheless he is certainly the first person the Bible records to kill an animal, and it was not regarded as a sin by God, but rather, it was regarded highly by God, not that God needs anything material in this world which he himself created by his Word (Jesus), but it shows both faith and love for God, which is what God enjoys.
how many times did Cain and Abel bring an offering to God?
was the account in Genesis 4:3-5 the first time?
what does it mean, "in the process of time" ((v.3)) -- was it a certain day? what day?
is this wholly disconnected from Genesis 3, or is it connected?
why does God put this event directly after Genesis 3?
why is this the very next thing we need to know?
- in Genesis 9:1-3 it is strongly implied that God had not given animals as food until that point
- it may be the case that men did so anyway, but that would make such men at that time, wicked
- therefore if Abel was doing this while in the first generation of man outside the garden, Abel is being wicked
- would God regard the abominable sacrifice of the wicked?
- what makes a lamb valuable to Abel?
- food?
- the narrative of Genesis strongly suggests, no
- clothing?
- one single adult sheep produces as much as 30 pounds of wool, annually
- Abel has at least 3 sheep: the parents of the lamb he offered, and that lamb
- Abel has access to 50 or 60lbs of wool per year, at minimum - likely far more
- how big is Abel's wardrobe?
- food?
- is the produce of the field, which the narrative very strongly suggests is their only food, of little or no value?
- per Genesis 3 this takes much labor to produce
- how much labor is involved in keeping sheep in the first generation outside paradise?
- which of the two offerings represents the most actual labor performed by the two brothers?
- which represents the bigger tangible loss to their basic physical needs ((food, shelter, clothing))?
In the Bible it seems this is the first and only time that Abel and Cain made an offering to God since Cain becomes angry that his sacrifice was not respected and he hated Abel for being good, and therefore he slays Abel.
The chapter opens up with Eve bearing Cain and then bearing Abel. So, "in the process of time" means that they grew up from babies into men.
This chapter comes after Genesis 3 because this is simply what happened next. The only connection with Genesis 3 is at the beginning of chapter 4, detailing how Adam and Eve begat Cain and then Abel. Genesis as a book tells us about the Beginnings of everything, hence the title. A lot of firsts in the book of Genesis and it will set the foundation for the entire rest of both the Bible as a book and the reality that we live in today.
- where did Abel learn to slaughter a lamb? why would he do such a thing? where did he even get the idea?
- is there any slaughtering of lambs in the text preceding Genesis 4?
- does God highly regard Abel's sacrifice of a lamb because Abel is giving up the opportunity to make 400 more tunics for himself this year?
- does God highly regard Abel's sacrifice of a lamb because Abel was unlawfully killing and eating lambs?
- is Abel giving up the 'real loss' of the opportunity to do something he is not supposed to be doing in the first place?
- is Abel showing his willingness to stop killing lambs by killing a lamb?
Has not the same Father made out of the same dust, both the animals and your childreen, who also serve you? And don't they have the same Breath of Life, which both received from the same Father?
What is the sin of the lamb? Why don't they constitute innocent blood? What does then?
And just because you have dominion over the animals doesn't mean you can kill them, you also have dominion over your children.
You can't have righteous shedding of innocent blood, it is not compatible:
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Ecclesiastes 5:1 Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Psalms 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
1 Samuel 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Isaiah 59:7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
2 Kings 24:4 And also for the innocent blood that he shed: for he filled Jerusalem with innocent blood; which the Lord would not pardon.
This Bible?
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Sometimes you have to trust your faith more than your eyes. Because if you had truly believed shedding innocent blood is an abomination, then it would follow that Jesus cannot shed innocent blood, because He cannot sin. And what you believe depends on whether you are a sheep or not, and if you hear His voice or the voice of strangers:
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Yes, but not the physical carnal red blood:
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
If you believe Abel was righteous, then ir follows he didn't shed innocent blood. However, Cain was a murderer, so you may have the sacrifices confused, if you get what I'm saying..
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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