An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

[godlovejoy]

Assuming you won't spare me - can you explain why the book of Revelation is not sealed? Whereas the book of Daniel is?

Yes it was sealed until the end of the age...which is now....This Prophecy Daniel was given in the Old Testament and now that Jesus came to fulfill His purpose and the New Covenant, Revelation has been given and entrusted to the NT Apostles who established the church through Jesus

So what then these mysteries you speak of that only a chosen few can draw upon? And what of Revelation which you say is a mystery? Howbeit that it is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ and it is not sealed?

All Believers have a part in the Body of Christ but the mysteries such as the book of Revelation are protected, sanctified, kept pure and undefiled in all Truth as it was given and entrusted that the message will be preserved in righteousness. The Chosen have proven themselves to be Faithful and Trustworthy. They are approved of and are the workmanship of God. They are known of God and they Love God and Follow the Lamb wherever He goes they are the sheep that know the Masters voice and will not follow the voice of a stranger.....They are given the understanding by the Spirit the voice they hear and know....

It is given by the spirit to those that have been given to Jesus in the Covenant (communion). the disciples/Apostles and then those that believe their testimony afterwards through the ages to the end but not all Revelation is given to one. We all have parts of the whole message and are faithful to share our portion.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

The Chosen have proven themselves to be Faithful and Trustworthy.

And does that mean giving away your own children also? If it does then I can tell you plainly, sister. I was an occult theosopher and a satanist when I was saved. To my shame I was writing the mysteries needed to establish an occult order of theosophic and satanic priests and jezebelelic priestesses in order to make commodities of men women and children.

The one thing that Satan desired from me in order to invite me back into his fold having been saved in solitary confinement when I saw Christ with my own eyes and the white of his garment - was my children those years later when he tried to draw me back. For my children I could have had a city. But I refused and for that the Lord permitted me to be sifted beyond anything I ever endured when an unbeliever - even to serving Satan openly and rebelliously.

You measure your worthiness and your faithfulness and your trustworthiness as you will do - but don't be deceived that any right minded person will yield to your portion. I refuse it utterly.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

and yet you think you deserve this rapture ticket that will spare you from death?

"RAPTURE / SNATCH / CAUGHT UP [G726]" is not defined as "sparing one from death"...

Recall, "the DEAD IN Christ" shall rise first [i.e. be bodily resurrected ('to stand again' [on the earth])] BEFORE we [both 'the DEAD IN Christ' AND the 'we which are ALIVE and remain unto' (who are ALSO 'IN Christ')] will be "CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED / RAPTURED [G726] TOGETHER [/at the same time]" (that is, "caught up / snatched / raptured" at the same time that they ['the DEAD IN Christ' who 'shall rise first'] are also "caught up / snatched / raptured").

If "the DEAD IN Christ" (who will "rise first"--be resurrected ['to stand again'] from the dead before the "snatch") haven't been "SPARED from death" before being raptured / caught up / snatched [G726]," then how is your argument a valid one.

The "rapture" doesn't "spare one from death"... as you are intending it to mean... for not ALL who will be "raptured / caught up / snatched [G726]" will be among the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"... no... SOME will be among "the DEAD IN Christ" (who "shall rise first" [be 'resurrected'--'to stand again']) who've obviously DIED prior to that point in time... right??


[<--where is that "thinking cap" again?]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Compared to the Great Multitude mentioned in the same chapter "that no man can number", it's easy to understand that the 144,000 is a numbered class.

Yes!





[completely distinct groups, in every way]

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The "rapture" doesn't "spare one from death"... as you are intending it to mean... for not ALL who will be "raptured / caught up / snatched [G726]" will be among the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"... no... SOME will be among "the DEAD IN Christ" (who "shall rise first" [be 'resurrected'--'to stand again']) who've obviously DIED prior to that point in time... right??

Those who are ALIVE are the survivors. During the tribulation, a quarter of global population will die over the Four Horsemen judgement (Rev. 6:7), three quarters remain; then a third will die in the 6th trumpet judgement (Rev. 9:15), so at the end a half will be killed, the other half will be alive.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Such a harsh judgment and witness you make

Do you still think my judgement and witness is harsh? Wake up!

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Another point to be made here.

The phrase "those who belong to Him" certainly IS "more than 2".

But how does that phrase MAKE SENSE of the "but EACH [of more than two] in his OWN ORDER / RANK" ?

It's the ONLY way to make sense of your "more than 2" idea. In the verse, there are only 2 categories of resurrection.
1. firstfruits, which is Jesus Christ
2. those who belong to Him - every believer from Adam on.

However, in that second category, there are untold numbers of believers.

Are you really trying to suggest that the second category will be split up into "more than 2" events of resurrection?

If you do, then just remember all the verses i've shown that clearly indicate there is just ONE resurrection of the saved.

"those who ARE His" is ONE [set] of the "ORDER / RANK"... (not the individual persons involved in this "those").

So? You pointed out by parentheses that the word "each" means "more than 2".

But "EACH" speaks to: "OF MORE THAN TWO" ("but EACH [OF MORE THAN TWO] in his OWN ORDER / RANK"... which means there is AN ORDER [/RANK]" to it...

What should be obvious is that in 1 Cora 15:23, given ONLY 2 categories of resurrection; that being Jesus' and the saved, it is clear that the "rank" was clearly indicated by "firstfruits", being Jesus as the FIRST. Then, EVERYONE else.

Why do you insist that in the group of "those who belong to Him" there will be a "ranking" of resurrections"? There's NO evidemce of that.

[again: the 144,000 are "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT" harvest... harvested by means of a "tribulum"... connecting with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (recall James 1:18 "a KIND of firstfruit" ), that is, in v.17... where it says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<--THOSE PHRASES are NOT *US* / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"; The FIRST of the TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 speaks to an EARLIER harvest, one in which it is harvested by means of "TOSSING IT UP INTO THE AIR" and "BLOWING away the chaff"]

Trying to force the word "firstfruit" from 1 Cor 15:23 into the "firstfruit" of Rev 14 is ridiculous.

1 Cor 15:23 tells us plainly that after the resurrection of Jesus, being the FIRST one, "then, when He comes, those who belong to Him" will be resurrected. If you can't see the obvious truth here that ALL believers from all time will be resurrected "when He comes".

That will be a single event. Not multiple events.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you omit the pretrib rapture verses, you will never enter the truth.

There aren't any. And you know that. So quit pretending there are.

Not any verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven. Zero means zero. None.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Examine your Post #235

Also: I am not, in any way, upset with you brother - let's break bread in the Peace of Christ

Whatever dude. I was not arguing for or against any rapture, pret-trib or not.

As for the 144000, They will be from the children of Israel. Thats what God said, Thats what he means.

If you do not like it. Thats to bad.

But for you to twist, and pervert the word of God and call him a liar. Well that just wrong. .

Again, Where did I lie or bear false witness.

Everything I said here is factual

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Specific Promise thru One Child is CHRIST.

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes, That promises, in you (through C her fist) shall all the nations of the world be blessed.

This is the promise of salvation to all mankind

That is not the specific promise of land and security that God promised one family, through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, through their 12 sons. Which we see in revelations, Are not only Alive and well. Have repented and come back to christ.

You should be praising God. Not calling hm a liar

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Hmmm, Jesus also said at the very beginning, that there will be “wars and rumors of wars”, “nations against nations, kingdom against kingdom”, and yet that is NOT the end. How convenient that you left that part out.

Thats the BEGINING of sorrows.

We are talking about the END, The great tribulation.

I believe we are witnessing the birth pangs today. People think it will get better. I thin it will get worse. Mankind has not witnessed anything like the tribulation that is yet to come,

 

[godlovejoy]

Do you still think my judgement and witness is harsh? Wake up!

What I don’t understand is the fact you think you have the authority to judge....you seem comfortable in this Role. Only God is the judge but Jesus has the keys
Revelation Chapter 1
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

And Jesus gives those keys to His Chosen who are in covenant with him and are the disciples and Apostles
Matthew Chapter 16
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This is a High Authority that only JESUS has he doesn’t give this authority to just anyone....
Luke Chapter 22 (Jesus speaking to his chosen 12 Disciples)
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

What I don’t understand is the fact you think you have the authority to judge....you seem comfortable in this Role. Only God is the judge but Jesus has the keys
Revelation Chapter 1
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

And Jesus gives those keys to His Chosen who are in covenant with him and are the disciples and Apostles
Matthew Chapter 16
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

This is a High Authority that only JESUS has he doesn’t give this authority to just anyone....
Luke Chapter 22 (Jesus speaking to his chosen 12 Disciples)
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.

29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Why don't you answer your own claims, sister? You have no knowledge of what manner of calling the Lord has called me to. Neither have I said it either. You on the other hand have issued dire warnings, taken the name of an Apostle of God and told myself - and sometime others - to just yield to that calling. I won't be yielding to you - not least because we are in a forum and not the church - and were we in the church you would not make the mistake of trying to assert any authority over me. I don't flinch and I never complain to those over me in Christ. Try doing the same and stop lamenting your rejection.

 

[godlovejoy]

Thats the BEGINING of sorrows.

Since COVID and the False Election I was so Grieved in Spirit...😞 God told me we are in the Beginning of Sorrows......Matthew Chapter 24 gives us the timeline

 

[godlovejoy]

stop lamenting your rejection.

I don’t lament any rejection I was raised spiritually Gods seed in rejection and persecution....God has made it known that I am his I have witnesses and I haven’t even shared those things with you and I won’t of course there’s no need to do that....I am safe and secure with God and I don’t need a mans approval I am covenanted to him even to the point of death if God wills it this way...I already have the Kingdom and Belong to God And out of the overflow I’m simply speaking my testimony

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, That promises, in you (through C her fist) shall all the nations of the world be blessed.

This is the promise of salvation to all mankind

That is not the specific promise of land and security that God promised one family, through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, through their 12 sons. Which we see in revelations, Are not only Alive and well. Have repented and come back to christ.

You should be praising God. Not calling hm a liar

You were reported for bearing false witness.
You were given room and time to return to Grace but you decided against it.

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is sin - you seem to relish in this sin.

 

[Dino246]

- First thing first, this might be a shocker even a heresy to a lot of y'all folks here, but these 144,000 are the TRUE Bride of Christ, the saints of all saints, not the "Universal Church throughout all ages" as most Christians believe.

^^^THIS^^^ is "An Analysis"?

Um, no. This is an a priori conclusion. Had you done your analysis and come to that conclusion, it would at least be valid (though not necessarily correct). As you have worded it, you determined your conclusion before you started any analysis.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Thats the BEGINING of sorrows.

We are talking about the END, The great tribulation.

I believe we are witnessing the birth pangs today. People think it will get better. I thin it will get worse. Mankind has not witnessed anything like the tribulation that is yet to come,

That's far from the end, buddy. You remember the Babylonian statue? It shows a slow progression of history from Babylon the golden head down to the final ten toes. After WWI and WWII, the world moved into the "feet" made of iron and clay. In biblical code language, all those metals are political powers, while "clay" is individuals. This new material shows a rising power from civil groups, you've all these former colonies that declared independence, the former rule of iron from those empires was being greatly weakened and fractured. Eventually it will get to the ten toes, which are the ten horns of the Beast. I believe it's very close, but we're not there yet.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Since COVID and the False Election I was so Grieved in Spirit...😞 God told me we are in the Beginning of Sorrows......Matthew Chapter 24 gives us the timeline

That was all for the "Great Reset". COVID was just a crisis they took advantage of to get rid of Trump. COVID begot shutdown, shutdown begot mail-in, mail-in begot fraud, fraud begot steal, and steal begot chaos. They were on a tight schedule because the devil knew he only got a short time.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I don’t lament any rejection I was raised spiritually Gods seed in rejection and persecution....God has made it known that I am his I have witnesses and I haven’t even shared those things with you and I won’t of course there’s no need to do that....I am safe and secure with God and I don’t need a mans approval I am covenanted to him even to the point of death if God wills it this way...I already have the Kingdom and Belong to God And out of the overflow I’m simply speaking my testimony

I will answer your words to myself.

When you tell me what to do and how to do it and why I should do it - you are not bearing a bland witness of your calling - you are telling me what to do. As to persecution - what do you know of it? You are lamentable in your manner because you imagine yourself to being persecuted. Yield to your husband - thank fully I am not that man. If I were.......