An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation
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Let me encourage you to search deeper into Scripture, that we often overlook, as to the truth of who the 144k actually are.
At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. " Matt 11:25
Better yet...".some things are reserved for our Father's knowledge only".
Also...."it may be revealed in due time".
Why is it that pre-tribbers can never bring forth a single pre-trib rapture verse and then cry and pout against CLEAR teachings from the LORD and the Apostles and the Prophets....
I like that, but first we rejoice in what God has already spoken/written in His Word and is revealed to us thru the Holy Spirit.
Truly, as you say, BETTER things are ahead for us who are in Christ.
Because you say there is .....no pre trib rapture.... and you have..... no bible support....... So, we don't have to...the Bible stands.
DavidTree said:
Why is it that pre-tribbers can never bring forth a single pre-trib rapture verse and then cry and pout against CLEAR teachings from teh LORD and the Apostles and the Prophets....
1. The Bible teaches that there will be just one resurrection of the saved.
2. The Bible teaches that there will be one resurrection of the unsaved.
- Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
3. The Bible teaches when the resurrection of the saved will be.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
So, this single resurrection will occur “when He comes”. The Bible clearly says when that will be.
4. The resurrection of the saved will include EVERY believer from Adam forward.
Rev 20:5 tells us clearly that all believers, or “those who belong to Him” will be resurrected “when He comes” and Rev 20 shows that to be at the end of the Tribulation.
6. Finally, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven ever. This is the foundation for the “pretrib rapture” teaching.
As one who doesn't want to be wrong any more than anyone on this thread, I would grearly appreciate if someone can clearly refute any of my 6 points above.
iow, if someone can prove that there will be more than a single resurrection of the saved; that is, believers will be saved in various groups and times, or can provide a verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, then I would be grateful.
I grew up in a Christian home and have been taught from the beginning in a pretribulation rapture with trip to heaven.
But after I grew up and began to study the Word the way the Bereans did (Acts 17:11), I couldn't find any evidence of that "rapture" where glorified believers are taken up to heaven.
Why is it that pre-tribbers can never bring forth a single pre-trib rapture verse and then cry and pout against CLEAR teachings from teh LORD and the Apostles and the Prophets....
Yes, the Bible stands. And very clearly it stands.
1. The Bible teaches that there will be just one resurrection of the saved.
- Matt 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
- Luke 14:14 - and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.”
- Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
- 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
2. The Bible teaches that there will be one resurrection of the unsaved.
- Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
3. The Bible teaches when the resurrection of the saved will be.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
So, this single resurrection will occur “when He comes”. The Bible clearly says when that will be.
4. The resurrection of the saved will include EVERY believer from Adam forward.
- 1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. It is obvious that every person who has believed in Christ do belong to Him.
- 2 Thess 2:1 - Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, The context from ch 1 shows this “coming” is the Second Advent.
- Rev 20:4,5 4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:5 tells us clearly that all believers, or “those who belong to Him” will be resurrected “when He comes” and Rev 20 shows that to be at the end of the Tribulation.
6. Finally, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven ever. This is the foundation for the “pretrib rapture” teaching.
As one who doesn't want to be wrong any more than anyone on this thread, I would grearly appreciate if someone can clearly refute any of my 6 points above.
iow, if someone can prove that there will be more than a single resurrection of the saved; that is, believers will be saved in various groups and times, or can provide a verse that shows Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, then I would be grateful.
I grew up in a Christian home and have been taught from the beginning in a pretribulation rapture with trip to heaven.
But after I grew up and began to study the Word the way the Bereans did (Acts 17:11), I couldn't find any evidence of that "rapture" where glorified believers are taken up to heaven.
^ No it doesn't.
1 Corinthians 15:23 states (instead), "[re: resurrection] but *EACH [G1538 - Hekastos - a word meaning, 'OF MORE THAN TWO'] in his own ORDER [/RANK]"... which means there is an "ORDER / RANK" to it, and that there does not remain only ONE (at one singular point in time).
One must grasp what it is that v.23 GOES ON to be saying (which ISN'T being understood, in the post above this one ^ )
[from BibleHub]
*EACH -G1538 - Hekastos -
Definition: each, every
Usage: each (of more than two), every one.
[end quoting from BH]
Study also the word "epieta" in that verse... it does not mean things that are TWO THOUSAND YEARS apart (like v.20 [re: Jesus Himself ] DOES speak of)
1 Corinthians 15:23 states (instead), "[re: resurrection] but *EACH [G1538 - Hekastos - a word meaning, 'OF MORE THAN TWO'] in his own ORDER [/RANK]"... which means there is an "ORDER / RANK" to it, and that there does not remain only ONE (at one singular point in time).
One must grasp what it is that v.23 GOES ON to be saying (which ISN'T being understood, in the post above this one ^ )
[from BibleHub]
*EACH -G1538 - Hekastos -
Definition: each, every
Usage: each (of more than two), every one.
[end quoting from BH]
Study also the word "epieta" in that verse... it does not mean things that are TWO THOUSAND YEARS apart (like v.20 [re: Jesus Himself ] DOES speak of)
Also...
Show me any reference in Scripture where...
*EACH - G1538 - Hekastos -
Definition: each, every
Usage: each (of more than two)
... ISN'T used to mean such
Show me any reference in Scripture where...
*EACH - G1538 - Hekastos -
Definition: each, every
Usage: each (of more than two)
... ISN'T used to mean such
Sorry, in my haste to add this tagline ^ , I MISSPELLED this Greek word.
Should read: "epeita [G1899]"
[from BibleHub page]
G1899 -
"– properly, only then (emphasizing what precedes is a necessary precursor)."
[end quoting from BibleHub]
Your right he speaks the truth
And he spoke in parables when there was a reason.
He speaks prophecy for a reason also.
If one does not properly interpret language for what it is, They will Cause Gods word to be misunderstood.
There is absolutely no purpose to interpret 144000 as parabolic language, It has no meaning or purpose.
However. Doing it in prophecy, has purpose and meaning. It has no meaning for us today. But for the peopel who witness the events take place. It will have massive purpose. It will also turn many to christ.
If it offends you that these people are jews. I am sorry. But you should ask God why you are offended By his words
^ To go with that post (regarding the contents of verse 23 in 1Cor15):
2 Corinthians 4:14 -
"knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Jesus and present [G3936] us with you in His presence."
Whatever dude. I was not arguing for or against any rapture, pret-trib or not.
As for the 144000, They will be from the children of Israel. Thats what God said, Thats what he means.
If you do not like it. Thats to bad.
But for you to twist, and pervert the word of God and call him a liar. Well that just wrong. .
Once again
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE THESE TRIBES ARE.
GOD SAID IT WILL HAPPEN< IT WiLL
I do not go around questioning God or try to twist his words to mean something other than what he said.
To many people have been doing that for the past 4000 Years. You should be ashamed.
Now you tell the LORD a thing or two, you are one smart guy.
Your post has me cracking up.
Bearing false witness is sin.
You will do much better by studying the Scripture and submitting unto Christ.
"At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight."
Actually, the closest model to the great tribulation would be WW1 and WW2. Mostly WW2 where at the end, we were introduced to weapons of mass destruction. And weapons that could cause the extinction of all life on earth
Remember, the words of Jesus,
Matt 24 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the[c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
There has been no time in the past where all life on earth has been threatened by events which could take place during a period of great tribulation. So severe will the threat be that Christ will return to put an end to it.
He allows mankind to continue until the last second, When he is forced to come forth. And put an end to it.
Of course there is a reason for this.. But when we symbolize prophecy, When we do nto take prophecy for what it is. We will not see that purpose. And we will miss out on what it is trying to tell us.
Satan wants to decieve the people in the world in that day.. Let’s not help him by twisting Gods word..
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