An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation
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I see. It is easier to remove yourself from a clear statement concerning your own words than it is to answer them in the express meaning to which they were applied. Congratulations.
The #1 Reason to reject the doctrine of pre-trib rapture = It never came out of the Mouth of God/Jesus
I directly connected myself to the Word of God for the reason why I believe or reject certain doctrines.
YES, I believe the teachings /doctrines of Christ and the Apostles.
NO, I do not accept false teaching/doctrine.
But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one - Matt 5:37
To this - where you do give a sense of your severity - begs a question. Why Adam - who was in innocence, and who named every living creature according to its own kind - and even understood the very nature of the woman who was brought to Him by God - listened to his wife when he was not deceived - even as she was already deceived. So the serpent was being divisive and we are not! Is that the premise? Yet God clothed both the male and female.
Dear Brother,
I am not 100% certain of that which you seek to ascertain from me so forgive me if i answer from Scripture that which pertains to the question at hand as well as my thoughts/perception on the Scripture at hand.
If i understand you correctly: The severity of the outcome of Adam's listening to his wife/Eve is that she abandoned the Word of God by listening to the words of satan = which brought the entire creation down under the dominion of sin.
I don't believe I am trying to ascertain much more than your own meaning on the pre tribulation position being "pre-trib rapture is a lie from satan for the purpose of dividing the Body of Christ." And my mention of Adam was to make the point that we are not told why an innocent man who was perfect in the day he was created, possessing extraordinary intellect to the naming of every creature according to its own kind in order to see if any were suited to be his helper - and then listened to his wife and by that means disobeyed God. He wasn't deceived was he? He acted in innocence insofar as he did not posess the knowledge of good or evil - but he nevertheless disobeyed God. What we are told is that God clothed both Adam and Eve in like manner to cover their ruined minds because Adam was now afraid of God - not their bodies because when they met with God in the Garden they had already covered themselves with an apron of leaves.
I apologise if I am a little obtuse - but I don't write plainly unless it means involving myself into the argument. I don't want to participate in the argument. I am mid tribulation and have been since the day I first studied the pre tribulation position in the mid 1980's. Yet I cannot see that your liking @Cabrillo's mid tribulation position @#207 is consistent with your using a passage from Scripture that sets down the rapture as a simultaneous event with the first resurrection and the visible appearing of the Lord - and your saying, "pre-trib rapture is a lie from satan for the purpose of dividing the Body of Christ." Isn't that why I asked without sight concerning the mid tribulation position also?
There is no 144,000 in heaven.The 144,000 being redeemed from the earth is referred in a spiritual sense.From a worldly mind to being virgins,blameless,walking with God..The Levite's are a good reference to the 144,000 because like those in Revelation 14 they are the remnant that God has preserved for himself.The crossing of the Jordan foreshadows a repeat of things to come.They carry the Ark of the Covenant which contains the book of the Law.read Revelation 14.The Levite's(Remnant) still carry the Ark.Which means they have the ministry of The Two Witnesse's.They are 144,000 temples of God with a double dose of Elijah.Aka the Holy Spirit that comes in the name of Jesus.They are literally filled with the spirit of Jesus.The rushing sound of water and peal of thunder is a hint of what's to come.
1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The water and the blood are the covenants with God.And the spirit is the word of God.The Bible as a whole!
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The Bible are his Two Witnesses of the earth.When they are killed for their testimony the 144,000 are put to death.
Here's some scripture relating to Revelation 14.The first one is a good one because it flat out fits perfectly to what I just said.
Isaiah 43:7-10
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things?
(Jesus,that's who).
let them (144k) bring forth their witnesses, (The Bible/Two Witnesses)that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 40:9-12
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. (Rev 14)
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
There's just so much on the 144,000.I Submitted a thread on the 144k and The Two Witnesse's that never got approved a while back.Probably because it wasn't complete. But I really just wanted to slowly add to it.Glad it didn't get approved honestly
To much typing and note gathering.
1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The water and the blood are the covenants with God.And the spirit is the word of God.The Bible as a whole!
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The Bible are his Two Witnesses of the earth.When they are killed for their testimony the 144,000 are put to death.
Here's some scripture relating to Revelation 14.The first one is a good one because it flat out fits perfectly to what I just said.
Isaiah 43:7-10
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things?
(Jesus,that's who).
let them (144k) bring forth their witnesses, (The Bible/Two Witnesses)that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 40:9-12
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. (Rev 14)
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
There's just so much on the 144,000.I Submitted a thread on the 144k and The Two Witnesse's that never got approved a while back.Probably because it wasn't complete. But I really just wanted to slowly add to it.Glad it didn't get approved honestly
To much typing and note gathering.
FYI - Fellowship & great coffee is open to all in Christ at my house.
Everyone who is in Christ, no matter what their position is (pre, mid, post) is welcome to come over and fellowship in the Holy Spirit, prayer and of course great coffee at my house.
The pre-trib error is quite clear and recognizable from Scripture to those who have surrendered their right to religion and bow the knee unto Scripture as the Authoritative Word.
A person who leans toward mid-trib has something to stand on as far as Scripture is concerned.
Mid-trib arises as a sort of 'peace treaty' between pre and post.
As for me and my house, the LORD Himself said:
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. - Matt ch24
There are no scriptural disagreements or adjustments to what the LORD said in Matt ch24.
The Prophets and the Apostles and Revelation all agree with Matt ch24
There is no 144,000 in heaven.The 144,000 being redeemed from the earth is referred in a spiritual sense.From a worldly mind to being virgins,blameless,walking with God..The Levite's are a good reference to the 144,000 because like those in Revelation 14 they are the remnant that God has preserved for himself.The crossing of the Jordan foreshadows a repeat of things to come.They carry the Ark of the Covenant which contains the book of the Law.read Revelation 14.The Levite's(Remnant) still carry the Ark.Which means they have the ministry of The Two Witnesse's.They are 144,000 temples of God with a double dose of Elijah.Aka the Holy Spirit that comes in the name of Jesus.They are literally filled with the spirit of Jesus.The rushing sound of water and peal of thunder is a hint of what's to come.
1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
The water and the blood are the covenants with God.And the spirit is the word of God.The Bible as a whole!
Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
The Bible are his Two Witnesses of the earth.When they are killed for their testimony the 144,000 are put to death.
Here's some scripture relating to Revelation 14.The first one is a good one because it flat out fits perfectly to what I just said.
Isaiah 43:7-10
Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things?
(Jesus,that's who).
let them (144k) bring forth their witnesses, (The Bible/Two Witnesses)that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isaiah 40:9-12
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. (Rev 14)
He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?
There's just so much on the 144,000.I Submitted a thread on the 144k and The Two Witnesse's that never got approved a while back.Probably because it wasn't complete. But I really just wanted to slowly add to it.Glad it didn't get approved honestly
The 144,000 ???
Maybe there is a very deep and awesome truth hidden here, intentionally from the LORD.
You said: "What we are told is that God clothed both Adam and Eve in like manner to cover their ruined minds because Adam was now afraid of God - not their bodies because when they met with God in the Garden they had already covered themselves with an apron of leaves."
You do not believe that God clothed Adam & Eve, after their sin, with the skin(s) of a sheep/animal?
Here are just 2
Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. - Matt ch24
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord. - 1 Thessw 4:13-18
That has no relation to a pre trib rapture.
Are you mixing pre trib rapture with the 2nd advent? It appears so. When we apply something out of context there are problems with meaning.
Study scriptures.
If you asked the LORD pick you up at 3 hours before the Antichrist arrives and HE says "I will gather you immediately after that tribulation".
Then you better believe Him.
Your RIGHT - because there is not one Scripture that says or supports a 'pre-trib' rapture.
$1,000 Reward if you find one.
I knew you didn't have the scriptures. There are none. Why don't you just acknowledge that.
Your opinion is otherwise noted without any foundation.
Enough already.
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