Are we in the end times ?

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Beckie

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Feb 15, 2022
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Could be the Zionism Movement or the Messianic Movement - or both. Honestly I'm no expert on that. Bottom line is, this is a global revival of the Jewish people.
You say you are not an expert but you tell me what it is?
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mar 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


Jesus still said Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
The generation that will be alive when the Antichrist is revealed?
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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Could be the Zionism Movement or the Messianic Movement - or both. Honestly I'm no expert on that. Bottom line is, this is a global revival of the Jewish people.
Israel , The Jews, the earthly children of Abraham. Which ever label folks prefer, was no longer tender at the time of Christ. The Church, the body of Christ , the Christians were.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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You say you are not an expert but you tell me what it is?
I was asking you about "these things". The completion of "these things" was the hard condition for "this generation" to subsist, no? So unless we understand what "these things", specifically the fig tree, we ain't gonna understand who are "this generation".
 

Beckie

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Feb 15, 2022
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The generation that will be alive when the Antichrist is revealed?
Why do you add 'the antichrist' What is the Biblical meaning of antichrist .. the answer is in Johns letters
 

Beckie

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I was asking you about "these things". The completion of "these things" was the hard condition for "this generation" to subsist, no? So unless we understand what "these things", specifically the fig tree, we ain't gonna understand who are "this generation".
I understand we just aint gonna agree
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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Why do you add 'the antichrist' What is the Biblical meaning of antichrist .. the answer is in Johns letters
That Wicked, Son of Perdition. Abomination of Desolation. Several names, same dude.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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I understand we just aint gonna agree
I'm just gonna say this, man, there's one verse in Revelation which says that the Fig Tree is dropping its fruit, and those 144,000 will be the First Fruit as they're called. There was no fruit on the Fig Tree when Jesus passed by, but there will be full of fruits at the end times.
 

Beckie

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Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
 

Beckie

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That Wicked, Son of Perdition. Abomination of Desolation. Several names, same dude.
Again i ask what is the Biblical definition of antichrist. Who is man to change the Word of God to suit his understanding?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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This parable is of paramount importance regarding the end times, it was recorded in almost identical words in all three synoptic gospels. If you don't understand this parable, you're not gonna truly understand that seemingly "clear" statement, because "these things" are directly referring to the "budding" of the fig tree.
The problem is when people try to interpret the parable first instead of taking the clear statement first and interpreting the parable through it.

It's a principle of hermeneutics to interpret the unclear by what is clear, rather than the other way around.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
That which calls itself "Israel" today has no real connection to OT Israel. God completely destroyed that nation in A.D. 70 (the "power of the holy people" was "completely shattered"). Peter wrote: "The end of ALL things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). He spoke of the end of the Old Covenant age the things pertaining to it.
To the contrary, in the state of Israel is to be found the house of Judah, which consists of the tribe of Judah, the tribe of Benjamin, and much of the tribe of Levi. Who together have become known as the Jews. The Lord will yet bring the houses of Israel and Judah together, in a new covenant, and make them one.
Ezekiel 37: 15-23, Jeremiah 31:31-34
 
Feb 24, 2022
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Again i ask what is the Biblical definition of antichrist. Who is man to change the Word of God to suit his understanding?
I think there will be two, one false messiah and one false Elijah, aka the Sea Beast and the Earth Beast. From what I know, Jews have been expecting a reincarnation of Elijah. You remember at the beginning of the gospel of John, Pharisees sent some men to ask about the identity of John the Baptist, and they asked if he was Elijah. Till this day there's still a tradition in many Jewish families to leave an empty chair at the dinner table for Elijah. But behold, when this fella comes, he's gonna be a reincarnation of Judas, not Elijah, and he'll sell all of us out to the false messiah. That's the real Man of Sin/the Lawless One in 2 Thess. 2:3.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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The problem is when people try to interpret the parable first instead of taking the clear statement first and interpreting the parable through it.

It's a principle of hermeneutics to interpret the unclear by what is clear, rather than the other way around.
That principle doesn't apply on references. These references direct you to other places in the bible, and you go there. In this case it's right there, the three previous verses. Both the fig tree parable and that statement are unclear to a certain degree, but the fig tree parable is CLEARER than that statement - if you've learned the symbolism of the fig tree. You ignore that context, parsing a reference like "these things" only makes what's clear UNclear.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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That principle doesn't apply on references. These references direct you to other places in the bible, and you go there. In this case it's right there, the three previous verses. Both the fig tree parable and that statement are unclear to a certain degree, but the fig tree parable is CLEARER than that statement - if you've learned the symbolism of the fig tree. You ignore that context, parsing a reference like "these things" only makes what's clear UNclear.
I couldn't disagree more. Parables are inherently unclear; Jesus had to explain them to the disciples. The Olivet discourse was plain speech, to be taken directly rather than parsed through some other lens. If you start with the parable, you're violating the principle.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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I couldn't disagree more. Parables are inherently unclear; Jesus had to explain them to the disciples. The Olivet discourse was plain speech, to be taken directly rather than parsed through some other lens. If you start with the parable, you're violating the principle.
You've got it completely upside down. Like it or not, half of the entire Olivet Discourse in Matthew was parables. Actually more than half, from the Fig Tree parable in 24:32 to the end of chapter 25 are all parables and analogies. What you called "plain speech" was unclear, that's why Jesus used one not but several parables to explain that "plain speech". The purpose was to use what they were familiar with to teach what they were NOT familiar with, not the other way around.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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I think there will be two, one false messiah and one false Elijah, aka the Sea Beast and the Earth Beast.
Well, Jesus did warn us a lot about false Elijahs. False Moseses' is even scarier.
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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Again i ask what is the Biblical definition of antichrist. Who is man to change the Word of God to suit his understanding?
When he said ....Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming ... it is because they had heard the teaching of that Wicked that would be revealed, the son of perdition, the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, which had been called the Antichrist by that time and was a common teaching among them.

Ancient references to the antichrist in church literature can be discovered with a Google search to learn more about the common teaching John was referring to when he said "you have heard..."
 

Amanuensis

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Jun 12, 2021
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Again i ask what is the Biblical definition of antichrist. Who is man to change the Word of God to suit his understanding?
When he said ....Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming ... it is because they had heard the teaching of that Wicked that would be revealed, the son of perdition, the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, which had been called the Antichrist by that time and was a common teaching among them.

Ancient references to the antichrist in church literature can be discovered with a Google search to learn more about the common teaching John was referring to when he said "you have heard..."

So before you start talking about the spiritual truth that John explains about the many antichrists, there is still a fact that they had been taught about the prophesied Anitchrist that was coming as part of the teachings of Jesus when he told them about the abomination of the desolation from Daniel the Prophet.

That was the Antichrist that they knew was prophesied to come and were expecting this as part of the prophesies that would occur before the appearance of the Son of Man in the clouds... and then he teaches them that ..In addition to that, they should also be aware that the "spirit that is behind this prophesied Antichrist was active even now and how to recognize it, but that in no way was intended to remove the teaching they had heard that the Antichrist was coming.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
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I think there will be two, one false messiah and one false Elijah, aka the Sea Beast and the Earth Beast. From what I know, Jews have been expecting a reincarnation of Elijah. You remember at the beginning of the gospel of John, Pharisees sent some men to ask about the identity of John the Baptist, and they asked if he was Elijah. Till this day there's still a tradition in many Jewish families to leave an empty chair at the dinner table for Elijah. But behold, when this fella comes, he's gonna be a reincarnation of Judas, not Elijah, and he'll sell all of us out to the false messiah. That's the real Man of Sin/the Lawless One in 2 Thess. 2:3.