Saved by Water
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And the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus has NOTHING to do with getting saved either.
Again, that is not what the Bible teaches. You are hung up on a very few verses, and you've been given many more verses that teach nothing of what you think your few verses mean.
This is the requirement for eternal life that Jesus explained to a crowd:
John 6-
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Nothing about water baptism.
It should be obvious that Jesus' baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. He is the Savior. His water baptism was a symbol or identification of being IN LINE with His Father's plan for Him.
In the same way, our water baptism is a symbol or identification of us as believers of being IN LINE with God's plan for salvation.
Water baptism is a ritual that depicts our being in union with Christ, in His death, burial and resurrection.
Nothing more.
It's difficult to discuss with you since you hardly ever, if at all, address specific points I make. All your posts in response to my posts seem to just "talk over" my posts.
No interaction with my points at all. As if they aren't there, or don't count.
Why can't you address them and try to show how they are wrong?
Instead, you just keep repeating the few verses you love to quote but you keep misunderstanding them.
Again, that is not what the Bible teaches. You are hung up on a very few verses, and you've been given many more verses that teach nothing of what you think your few verses mean.
This is the requirement for eternal life that Jesus explained to a crowd:
John 6-
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Nothing about water baptism.
It should be obvious that Jesus' baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. He is the Savior. His water baptism was a symbol or identification of being IN LINE with His Father's plan for Him.
In the same way, our water baptism is a symbol or identification of us as believers of being IN LINE with God's plan for salvation.
Water baptism is a ritual that depicts our being in union with Christ, in His death, burial and resurrection.
Nothing more.
It's difficult to discuss with you since you hardly ever, if at all, address specific points I make. All your posts in response to my posts seem to just "talk over" my posts.
No interaction with my points at all. As if they aren't there, or don't count.
Why can't you address them and try to show how they are wrong?
Instead, you just keep repeating the few verses you love to quote but you keep misunderstanding them.
Yes, they do, but your stubborness to open your eyes to all the verses that make NO MENTION of water baptism in relation to salvation have proved your view to be unbiblical.
What you resist is the truth that water baptism is a symbol just as circumcision was in the OT.
Circumcision is a ritual to be done in the OT just as water baptism is a ritual to be done for believers.
This demonstrates that you do not believe Gal 3:2 and 5 then. We receive the indwelt Spirit on the basis of faith, not water baptism.
What you resist is the truth that water baptism is a symbol just as circumcision was in the OT.
Circumcision is a ritual to be done in the OT just as water baptism is a ritual to be done for believers.
This demonstrates that you do not believe Gal 3:2 and 5 then. We receive the indwelt Spirit on the basis of faith, not water baptism.
I do believe the following scripture:
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
What I believe you do not see is that Peter says it is through Jesus name that believers receive remission of sin. This occurs through obedience to what is stated in Acts 2:38; water baptism in the NAME of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin.
What many fail to realize is they have been baptized according to man-made tradition. Jesus is the one who was crucified for mankind. And it is into His death that we are to be buried through obedience to God's command to be baptized in His name. The biblical record shows the apostles only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43
What I believe you do not see is that Peter says it is through Jesus name that believers receive remission of sin. This occurs through obedience to what is stated in Acts 2:38; water baptism in the NAME of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin.
What many fail to realize is they have been baptized according to man-made tradition. Jesus is the one who was crucified for mankind. And it is into His death that we are to be buried through obedience to God's command to be baptized in His name. The biblical record shows the apostles only baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Obedience to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is when sins are remitted according to the Word. I believe the Word means what it says.
And as for the KJV, it has stood the test of time. God's Word will not return void. All we can do is share what it says. It is God alone that gives the increase.
And as for the KJV, it has stood the test of time. God's Word will not return void. All we can do is share what it says. It is God alone that gives the increase.
I do not respond to your points because they have no bearing on the scriptures presented relevant to water baptism. You believe scriptures about water baptism are speaking of receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. No need to argue about it. As I said, our understanding differs. I suggest you seek God about it, as I do when presented with scripture that in any way seems to contradict my understanding. Unfortunately, many are being taught not to accept firmly established doctrine from apostolic times through the centuries concerning water baptism, etc.
Water baptism is a necessary component, as is repentance, and receiving the Holy Ghost. To exclude any of the requirements is to refuse to believe the entire gospel message as presented initially by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. These same truths are seen in the accounts of the Gentiles, Samaritans, the Apostle Paul, the Ephesus disciples and others as evidence of what is required to acquire one's spiritual rebirth. Both water and Spirit are required. This lines up with what Jesus said in John 3:3-5.
1 John 5:1 tells us exactly what must be believed to be born again.
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
1 John 5:1 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.5.1.KJV
So, if you believe that Jesus is the Christ you have already been born of God. I don’t see any way this verse can be true if you are correct.
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More like......I do believe this verse, BUT I ALSO BELIEVE that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
So, you are internally contradicted and conflicted.
It is easy to understand what Peter was saying. It is FAITH THROUGH His Name that we receive remission of sins.
NO it does NOT. That crowd was special. They personally witnessed the many miracles of Jesus or had heard about them first hand, so in fact, they had taken part in crucifying a supernatural human being. And they knew the Scriptures that prophesied about the miracles that He would do.
So, you are internally contradicted and conflicted.
It is easy to understand what Peter was saying. It is FAITH THROUGH His Name that we receive remission of sins.
NO it does NOT. That crowd was special. They personally witnessed the many miracles of Jesus or had heard about them first hand, so in fact, they had taken part in crucifying a supernatural human being. And they knew the Scriptures that prophesied about the miracles that He would do.
You are simply ignoring the truth. And you still don't gasp the difference between water and Spirit baptism. One is wet and one is dry.
You are unable to discern between which baptism is being referred to. You default every verse to water baptism.
There is nothing to argue about. Just consider the case of Cornelius.
Acts 10-
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
These verses prove that they all received the Holy Spirit BEFORE there was any water baptism.
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
ONLY after receiving the Holy Spirit did Peter even bring up water baptism.
In ch 11 we have more clarifying verses where Peter explains to the saved Jews back in Jerusalem why he went to the home of a Gentile, a BIG no-no for a Jew.
14 - He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
iow, they would be saved "through a message", which is obviously hearing and believing the gospel. Not "by water".
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
If these 3 verses don't convince you that the baptism that saves is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you just don't want to be convinced.
In v.15 Peter recounts that as he was speaking, the Holy Spirit came on all of them, just as He had come on the jews at the beginning, which is a refernce to Acts 1 and the Day of Pentecost.
Then, in v.16 Peter differentiates between water and Spirit baptism. iow, Cornelius and family/friends were Spirit baptized.
Yes, they do, and I have shown your errors. You will see the truth ONLY IF you have ears to hear and eyes to see.
I've been doing that probably far longer than you have.
No, unfortunately, many have been taught false doctrine from the earliest times.
Can you find any example, other than drinking water, where one can be saved by water?
You are unable to discern between which baptism is being referred to. You default every verse to water baptism.
There is nothing to argue about. Just consider the case of Cornelius.
Acts 10-
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
These verses prove that they all received the Holy Spirit BEFORE there was any water baptism.
47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
ONLY after receiving the Holy Spirit did Peter even bring up water baptism.
In ch 11 we have more clarifying verses where Peter explains to the saved Jews back in Jerusalem why he went to the home of a Gentile, a BIG no-no for a Jew.
14 - He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
iow, they would be saved "through a message", which is obviously hearing and believing the gospel. Not "by water".
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
If these 3 verses don't convince you that the baptism that saves is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you just don't want to be convinced.
In v.15 Peter recounts that as he was speaking, the Holy Spirit came on all of them, just as He had come on the jews at the beginning, which is a refernce to Acts 1 and the Day of Pentecost.
Then, in v.16 Peter differentiates between water and Spirit baptism. iow, Cornelius and family/friends were Spirit baptized.
Yes, they do, and I have shown your errors. You will see the truth ONLY IF you have ears to hear and eyes to see.
I've been doing that probably far longer than you have.
No, unfortunately, many have been taught false doctrine from the earliest times.
Can you find any example, other than drinking water, where one can be saved by water?
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Since Gal 3:2,5 DIRECTLY REFUTES your statement here, it is impossible for you to believe Gal 3:2,5.
You are simply unwilling to realize that the crowd does not relate to any other crowd ever. They were personally involved in the crucifixion.
None of what you say here is truth. You are just misunderstanding a lot of Scripture.
Water doesn't save. It kills. I've proven that from the Bible. You can't even find an example of literal water saving anyone.
The account of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 and Gal 3:2 and 5 all refute your views. It is that simple.
You are simply unwilling to realize that the crowd does not relate to any other crowd ever. They were personally involved in the crucifixion.
None of what you say here is truth. You are just misunderstanding a lot of Scripture.
Water doesn't save. It kills. I've proven that from the Bible. You can't even find an example of literal water saving anyone.
The account of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 and Gal 3:2 and 5 all refute your views. It is that simple.
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So what? Circumcision didn't save anyone in the OT. Just like water baptism doesn't save anyone in the NT.
No, that is the requirement of 1 special crowd in Acts 2. It wasn't necessary for Cornelius and family/friends, and it wasn't necessary for the church in Galatia.
Salvation includes Spirit baptism. But you refuse to accept that truth. Acts 11:15-16-17 proves it.
No, that is the requirement of 1 special crowd in Acts 2. It wasn't necessary for Cornelius and family/friends, and it wasn't necessary for the church in Galatia.
Salvation includes Spirit baptism. But you refuse to accept that truth. Acts 11:15-16-17 proves it.
The key is what belief entails.
Believing in Jesus encompasses believing everything He said; for He is the Word. According to Jesus, everyone must be born of water and Spirit in order to see (comprehend) and enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Only those who do the will of God will gain entrance into heaven. (Matt. 71:21) Some who believe in Jesus will hear the dreaded words, I never knew you on judgement day. (Matt. 7:23) Eternal salvation is made available to those who obey Jesus. (Heb 5:9) Also, as stated by Jesus' brother James, faith alone is dead. He expresses this in the fact that the devils believe and tremble. Their belief will not gain them entrance into the kingdom of God (James 2:19-20)
"1 John 5:1
It cannot be supposed that a mere intellectual acknowledgment of the proposition that Jesus is the Messiah is all that is meant, for that is not the proper meaning of the word believe in the Scriptures. That word, in its just sense, implies that the truth which is believed should make its fair and legitimate impression on the mind, or that we should feel and act as if it were true. See the notes at Mark 16:16. If, in the proper sense of the phrase, a man does believe that Jesus "is the Christ," receiving him as he is revealed as the Anointed of God, and a Saviour, it is undoubtedly true that that constitutes him a Christian, for that is what is required of a man in order that he may be saved. See the notes at Acts 8:37 (from Barnes' Notes, Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Believing in Jesus encompasses believing everything He said; for He is the Word. According to Jesus, everyone must be born of water and Spirit in order to see (comprehend) and enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:3-5) Only those who do the will of God will gain entrance into heaven. (Matt. 71:21) Some who believe in Jesus will hear the dreaded words, I never knew you on judgement day. (Matt. 7:23) Eternal salvation is made available to those who obey Jesus. (Heb 5:9) Also, as stated by Jesus' brother James, faith alone is dead. He expresses this in the fact that the devils believe and tremble. Their belief will not gain them entrance into the kingdom of God (James 2:19-20)
"1 John 5:1
It cannot be supposed that a mere intellectual acknowledgment of the proposition that Jesus is the Messiah is all that is meant, for that is not the proper meaning of the word believe in the Scriptures. That word, in its just sense, implies that the truth which is believed should make its fair and legitimate impression on the mind, or that we should feel and act as if it were true. See the notes at Mark 16:16. If, in the proper sense of the phrase, a man does believe that Jesus "is the Christ," receiving him as he is revealed as the Anointed of God, and a Saviour, it is undoubtedly true that that constitutes him a Christian, for that is what is required of a man in order that he may be saved. See the notes at Acts 8:37 (from Barnes' Notes, Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
Acts 10:43 means what it says. It is through Jesus' name that sins are remitted. See Acts 2:38. That is why Peter commanded Cornelius and the others to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord after they had received the Holy Ghost.
The command given to the people on Pentecost was not exclusive to them. Acts 2:39 indicates the promise associated with obedience to the entire message given pertains to all those the Lord shall call. That means it pertains to all of humanity until Jesus returns.
Consider the Apostle Paul was still preaching the same message over 20 years after Peter first presented it:
Acts 19:1-6
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
The command given to the people on Pentecost was not exclusive to them. Acts 2:39 indicates the promise associated with obedience to the entire message given pertains to all those the Lord shall call. That means it pertains to all of humanity until Jesus returns.
Consider the Apostle Paul was still preaching the same message over 20 years after Peter first presented it:
Acts 19:1-6
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.