Alcohol - a world wide phenomena
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Let's apply a little simply logic. You comment "olive harvest" where the text uses "oil", then claim that there is nothing about fermentation, etc. What you overlook is that "oil" is not the olive harvest, but the processed result of the olive harvest. Similarly, while grapes are harvested from vines, wine is the processed result of the grape harvest, because although the ancients could preserve grapes as raisins, they had no way of preserving fresh grape juice. It starts to ferment immediately after being rendered. The text doesn't need to specify that fermentation takes place; it just happens!
I suspect that, like many religious abstainers, you don't know a thing about the actual subject, and you think that the biblical text is sufficient to teach you the technical details. In reality, you are pontificating from a position of ignorance.
The tithe is not the firstfruits either. They are distinct under the Law.
I suspect that, like many religious abstainers, you don't know a thing about the actual subject, and you think that the biblical text is sufficient to teach you the technical details. In reality, you are pontificating from a position of ignorance.
The tithe is not the firstfruits either. They are distinct under the Law.
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I did at least twice, but you refuse to consider the study. I told you the file is clean on the word of a Christian, and on the word of Internet Archive and on the word of many antivirus and malware checkers at virustotal.
However, consider:
Deu 32:32: "For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:"
Ps 69:21: "They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink."
Mat 27:34: "They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink."
Acts 8:23: "For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."
Mar 15:23: "And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."
Heb 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
I also hope one knows the difference between drink and taste.
Deu 32:33: "Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps."
Prov 4:17: "For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence."
Prov 20:1: "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Dan 1:8: "But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself."
Am 2:8: "And they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god."
Hab 2:5: "Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:"
There are more but that should be sufficient in answer.
However, consider:
Deu 32:32: "For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:"
Ps 69:21: "They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink."
Mat 27:34: "They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink."
Acts 8:23: "For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."
Mar 15:23: "And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not."
Heb 2:9: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
I also hope one knows the difference between drink and taste.
Deu 32:33: "Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps."
Prov 4:17: "For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence."
Prov 20:1: "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Dan 1:8: "But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself."
Am 2:8: "And they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god."
Hab 2:5: "Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:"
There are more but that should be sufficient in answer.
I showed in my research they do indeed. It is in scripture. Feel free to download that study and read. If not, it is your prerogative to remain without knowledge, though you could have known.
You are fully culpable and I am clean on the matter. The water is before you, drink if you will or not if you don't.
You are fully culpable and I am clean on the matter. The water is before you, drink if you will or not if you don't.
Not over looked at all. I specifically laid that out. Alcohol is never a firstfruit. Grape juice (wine) and olive oil are, since they are simply crushed from the presses or fats.
Joel 2:24: "And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil."
A Jewish site confirms:
"... The verses state that one must tithe “grain, wine, and oil.” Therefore, some consider the biblical mitzvah to apply only to grain, grapes and olives.15 ..." - https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...sh/Maaser-Tithing-in-Torah-and-Jewish-Law.htm
Joel 2:24: "And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil."
A Jewish site confirms:
"... The verses state that one must tithe “grain, wine, and oil.” Therefore, some consider the biblical mitzvah to apply only to grain, grapes and olives.15 ..." - https://www.chabad.org/library/arti...sh/Maaser-Tithing-in-Torah-and-Jewish-Law.htm
You misunderstood what I said as usual simply looking to be divisive. Yes and no.
2Chr 31:5: "And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."
There is a parallelism in the verse.
Neh 10:37: "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage."
However, I do not desire to derail the thread to a differing subject.
This thread is about alcohol, though it may occasionally touch on that subject, it is not the subject of the thread. I am sure you would produce verses and I produce verses, and you produce citations and I produce citations and off the subject (alcohol) it would go, just as the devil would want. I do not fear the topic, it's just not the topic of this thread. I try to remain consistent in that as much as possible.
2Chr 31:5: "And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly."
There is a parallelism in the verse.
Neh 10:37: "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage."
However, I do not desire to derail the thread to a differing subject.
This thread is about alcohol, though it may occasionally touch on that subject, it is not the subject of the thread. I am sure you would produce verses and I produce verses, and you produce citations and I produce citations and off the subject (alcohol) it would go, just as the devil would want. I do not fear the topic, it's just not the topic of this thread. I try to remain consistent in that as much as possible.
Corn is simply older English for "grain":
"corn (n.1)
"grain," Old English corn "single seed of a cereal plant; seeds of cereal plants generally; plants which produce corn when growing in the field," from Proto-Germanic *kurnam "small seed" (source also of Old Frisian and Old Saxon korn "grain," Middle Dutch coren, German Korn, Old Norse korn, Gothic kaurn), from PIE root *gre-no- "grain."" - https://www.etymonline.com/word/corn
"corn (n.1)
"grain," Old English corn "single seed of a cereal plant; seeds of cereal plants generally; plants which produce corn when growing in the field," from Proto-Germanic *kurnam "small seed" (source also of Old Frisian and Old Saxon korn "grain," Middle Dutch coren, German Korn, Old Norse korn, Gothic kaurn), from PIE root *gre-no- "grain."" - https://www.etymonline.com/word/corn
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The "governor" (type) is a real person representing God the Father (anti type). No, he is not drunk at all, since none of the "wine" at the wedding was alcoholic, but all the juice of the grape harvest, a symbol of the pure blood (life) and doctrine of Jesus Christ, a gift to His bride, the church.
The "wine" (grape juice) was "good" (morally pure or morally right/excellent):
John 2:10: "And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now."
John 2:10 GNTTR - καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ Πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τότε τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι
"καλὸν" (G2570) - morally righteous, virtuous, noble, honourable, worthy, good in the definition that God is good of character, etc. - see also -https://biblehub.com/greek/2570.htm
Alcohol is never morally righteous.
"good" & "best" have nothing to do with aged alcohol or fermentation.
Num 18:12: "All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee."
The "wine" (grape juice) was "good" (morally pure or morally right/excellent):
John 2:10: "And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now."
John 2:10 GNTTR - καὶ λέγει αὐτῷ Πᾶς ἄνθρωπος πρῶτον τὸν καλὸν οἶνον τίθησιν καὶ ὅταν μεθυσθῶσιν τότε τὸν ἐλάσσω· σὺ τετήρηκας τὸν καλὸν οἶνον ἕως ἄρτι
"καλὸν" (G2570) - morally righteous, virtuous, noble, honourable, worthy, good in the definition that God is good of character, etc. - see also -https://biblehub.com/greek/2570.htm
Alcohol is never morally righteous.
"good" & "best" have nothing to do with aged alcohol or fermentation.
Num 18:12: "All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine, and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee."
Does this sound like a good time?
•83% of all fire deaths are alcohol related
•68% of all drownings are alcohol related
•80% of all suicides are alcohol related
•40% of all industrial accidents are alcohol related
•86% of all murders are alcohol related
•65% of all child abuse cases are alcohol related
The leading cause of mental retardation is alcohol use during pregnancy.
•83% of all fire deaths are alcohol related
•68% of all drownings are alcohol related
•80% of all suicides are alcohol related
•40% of all industrial accidents are alcohol related
•86% of all murders are alcohol related
•65% of all child abuse cases are alcohol related
The leading cause of mental retardation is alcohol use during pregnancy.
I believe that I understand a little about your point of view. You love Jesus and want to emulate Him, believe that alcohol is evil and yet try to reconcile Jesus creating wine out of water. You say He made grape juice.
In the overall scheme of things, even though I don't believe that, it is not a salvation issue. For the record, I have abstained from alcohol since 1992 as I have seen the damage that it can do for those that can't control themselves. That being said, I am not going to look down at someone who has a beer after a hard day's work or enjoys a glass of wine with their family at dinner time and absolutely see no conflict with scripture. It certainly isn't evil.
In the overall scheme of things, even though I don't believe that, it is not a salvation issue. For the record, I have abstained from alcohol since 1992 as I have seen the damage that it can do for those that can't control themselves. That being said, I am not going to look down at someone who has a beer after a hard day's work or enjoys a glass of wine with their family at dinner time and absolutely see no conflict with scripture. It certainly isn't evil.
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My brother tried to take his own life with a steak knife, cutting his wrist vertically, and then tried to fight off the cops and medics who were called in to help him, all the while he was under the evil influence of alcohol. He was forcibly detained and bleeding out, but they managed to save him, and emergency stitch up a shredded artery at the ER. He still bears the scar, and had to go to physical therapy to regain muscle control. I find absolutely nothing funny about alcohol, at all.
He isn't the only anecdotal story I could share either.
He isn't the only anecdotal story I could share either.
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That's the deception (Pro. 20:1), thinking that you or they can "control" it. It's very nature is toxicity, poisonous, riotous, deceiving, rebellious, sin and death. All characteristics of the devil. It always bears evil fruit, because it is corrupt fruit. One glass of beer, one glass of wine, a day or week or month is an alcoholic, and that one partaking immediately begins to wreak havoc on the body temple, and break down the immune system, mental clarity, inhibitions to sin, liver toxicity, kidney damage, eye injury, brain alteration. God said that those who defile (break down, ruin, destroy) the body temple, God would destroy, because their god is not God, but their own belly, their own twisted desire.
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