The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[riverhooks]

Don't you think there's a distinction between Jesus and the Holy Spirit? The Church was born on Pentecost by the supernatural anointing of the Holy Spirit, but that's the Helper Jesus promised, not Jesus Himself.

There is one God you don’t get the one without the other. "He that sees me sees Him who sent me “ Jesus is called the Everlasting Father in Isaiah , The Brightness of the Fathers glory in Hebrews 1. The Holy Spirit , is also the Spirit God , The Spirit of the Father , and the Spirit of Christ. I went to an elder once after his message when He said Jesus raised Himself from the dead. I said , He was in error and quoted Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle not of men neither by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead. He was a bit miffed and replied, Brother! And what does this mean , “ Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up ! You don’t get one without the other. "I am the Lord I change not". Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There is one God you don’t get the one without the other. "He that sees me sees Him who sent me “ Jesus is called the Everlasting Father in Isaiah , The Brightness of the Fathers glory in Hebrews 1. The Holy Spirit , is also the Spirit God , The Spirit of the Father , and the Spirit of Christ. I went to an elder once after his message when He said Jesus raised Himself from the dead. I said , He was in error and quoted Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle not of men neither by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead. He was a bit miffed and replied, Brother! And what does this mean , “ Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up ! You don’t get one without the other. "I am the Lord I change not". Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.

You don’t get it, man. Church is the crop that Jesus will reap in the end, wheat gathered into barn, tares thrown into fire. The idea of Church itself being the second coming is liberal, godless humanism. That’s probably from the synagogue of Satan, the communist Jews who’ve done waiting for their own version of Messiah and decided to become their own Messiah. “We are the savior we’ve been waiting for!”

 

[riverhooks]

You don’t get it, man. Church is the crop that Jesus will reap in the end, wheat gathered into barn, tares thrown into fire. The idea of Church itself being the second coming is liberal, godless humanism. That’s probably from the synagogue of Satan, the communist Jews who’ve done waiting for their own version of Messiah and decided to become their own Messiah. “We are the savior we’ve been waiting for!”

backattcha >Liberal , godless humanism, is not accepting the Word of God as the final authority on truth. man.

 

[Absolutely]

Are you sure plain and simple statements as Martha’s in the Gospel of John as I know my Brother shall rise on the Last Day would not be a huge problem for you ? I just got up and am drinking coffee. Before we discuss the Bible can we agree to be a little less narcissistic with our speech with others that have different opinions. It would make it easier to share . Peace.

Maybe if i look them up.
Mat 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We see vividly;
Jesus comes after the trib.
The ENTIRE POPULATION mourns.
The elect are gathered by angels, not Jesus, from heaven, not earth.
^^^^^^^one "coming"^^^^^^^^^

Now let's look at the other coming of Matthew 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
We see vividly pictired;
The prejudgemnt setting
Noah entering the ark( the vessel taking him miles into the sky) where he would dwell in the heavens FOR THE DURATION OF The JUDGEMEMT/TRIB/WRATH.
Then wecsee the catching away PREJUDGEMENT, of one believer raptured, one staying. Vividly pictured.
Then we see the pretrib command;
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Very plain and vivid depictions of 2 SEPARATE AND TOTALLY DIFFERENT "comings".

How do you deal with that?

 

[Absolutely]

Good Morning !


In the parable of the sower , are there not 3 groups of people the our Lord speak of?
Unbelievers
"Used to be" believers
True believers
no?

God Bless!

in what way does that impact the post i made on paradise?

Not sure of the connection.
But yes , several groups

 

[Absolutely]

You don’t get it, man. Church is the crop that Jesus will reap in the end, wheat gathered into barn, tares thrown into fire. The idea of Church itself being the second coming is liberal, godless humanism. That’s probably from the synagogue of Satan, the communist Jews who’ve done waiting for their own version of Messiah and decided to become their own Messiah. “We are the savior we’ve been waiting for!”

2 comings in mat 24

The one after the trib has no gathering from earth.
The other coming has noah gathered before the trib/ judgement

 

[Hitch]

Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken,

Does that mean if you're just waiting you'll be LEFT BEHIND to coin a phrase ?

 

[Hitch]

These also can be non born again believers.😗😗

What is a non born again believer ?

 

[Absolutely]

Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken,

Does that mean if you're just waiting you'll be LEFT BEHIND to coin a phrase ?

If you look at mat 24 the parable of the virgins, you will see exactly what happens in those left behind and why.

 

[Absolutely]

What is a non born again believer ?

I think he means those that the seed sprouts but is overtaken by this world.

Osas would not have an answer, because they would say " he never became a "plant""

 

[Hitch]

If you look at mat 24 the parable of the virgins, you will see exactly what happens in those left behind and why.

So the blood of Christ is NOT what makes one 'ready' but rather an emotional state of expectation ?

 

[Absolutely]

So am I!



That's not a theory, there're many references of Hades scattered here and there in the bible, you just need to connect the dots. Psalm 16:10 is quoted by Peter in his sermons in Acts 2:27 and Acts 13:35 regarding the resurrection.

I wrote this post below against pre-trib doctrine. You know, it's not just that this doctrine itself is wrong, it has deadly ramifications. It puts the hope of salvation on that rapture instead of God's saving grace, and it shifts the focus from Jesus onto modern state of Israel. At its best it's merely a misinterpretation, at its worst it's a Zionist propaganda that has captured the wing of conservative evangelicals in America.

https://communities.win/c/Christianity/p/141rjZNE9u/why-is-the-false-doctrine-of-pre/c

"""I wrote this post below against pre-trib doctrine. You know, it's not just that this doctrine itself is wrong, it has deadly ramifications. It puts the hope of salvation on that rapture instead of God's saving grace, and it shifts the focus from Jesus onto modern state of Israel. At its best it's merely a misinterpretation, at its worst it's a Zionist propaganda that has captured the wing of conservative evangelicals in America."""

If you are going to make these types of false accusations against people that disagree, do not be offended by a powerful pushback.

I will respond as necessary and get the correct dynamic in focus.

So i ALWAYS let my opponent set the tone.

It is up to you.

 

[cv5]

I’ll go with the Bible . We are talking about what the Bible says. The Church is on the earth at the Second Coming of Christ. 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 .

Still waiting for any postribber to RIGHTLY define for us the identity of the 24 Elders of Revelation. For some reason no one wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. Understandably.

 

[Absolutely]

Look I hate to sound like a Debbie Downer or a fear mongerer, but my friend, never forget the fact that the saints are delivered into the hands of the Beast, the Beast shall make war with them and overcomes them for a time, times and half a time, even though you’ve heard it all the time that "Jesus would not beat up his bride before the wedding".

And speaking of judgement, even if you’re bailed out, you still have to go to the court for trial when the “judgement day” comes.

you just admitted that the saints left behind are overcome by the beast during the gt.

And no, blood washed saints are not Judged at the gwtj.

We are judged in this life, not the next.

 

[peldom10]

So the blood of Christ is NOT what makes one 'ready' but rather an emotional state of expectation ?

Christs' sacrifice is for forgiveness thru grace from God our Father. The reason we pray to Him in Jesus' name.

We repent and are baptized to achieve ...born again status...in this body on this earth. That allows us to live a righteous life and thus be eligible for award of eternal salvation when we are judged after our physical death. Scripture;.... "It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement".

 

[peldom10]

Still waiting for any postribber to RIGHTLY define for us the identity of the 24 Elders of Revelation. For some reason no one wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. Understandably.

Not a posttriber ( pre-tribulation per the Bible) but...response to your inquiry re. the 24;

I am thinking that the 24 is made up of the 12 apostles from the OT and the 12 disciples of the NT. Judas causes a question...however.

Thoughts/comments are invited?

 

[Hitch]

Christs' sacrifice is for forgiveness thru grace from God our Father. The reason we pray to Him in Jesus' name.

We repent and are baptized to achieve ...born again status...in this body on this earth. That allows us to live a righteous life and thus be eligible for award of eternal salvation when we are judged after our physical death. Scripture;.... "It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement".

So this quote is meaningless?;
Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken,

 

[peldom10]

So this quote is meaningless?;
Then when those who are eagerly waiting and looking for the Lord are taken,

Not sensible?

 

[Hitch]

Not sensible?

Well that sums up most rapture schemes.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You don’t get it, man. Church is the crop that Jesus will reap in the end, wheat gathered into barn, tares thrown into fire.

See my posts where I've made the case that:

--there is MORE THAN ONE "harvest" in Scripture (as in nature);

--there are TWO distinct mentions of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Leviticus 23... and where I show how "the 144,000" are called "FIRSTFRUIT" and the language used in Rev14:4 is parallel to that of the SECOND mention of "FIRSTFRUIT" in Lev23, that being in 23:17, where (associated with the "WHEAT" harvest) it states, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" (<---that ain't "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" / US, who is said to be [...described as OTHER THAN THESE... I'll leave that to the readers/students of the Word to look up in Scripture what it says of US, instead of described in these ways]);

--in the "WHEAT" harvest (when they'll be separated from the "tares") it states that the "ANGELS / REAPERS" will "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (this is in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of "our Rapture" event);




--on a different note (but covered recently in this thread), why would you think that Christ and His Church (at the Rapture) would be having their "MARRIAGE" at the same point in time (His Second Coming to the earth), that Rev17:14/19:19 and 19:11 ["judges and MAKES WAR"... sword / mouth thing, etc] speaks of as happening at that point (noting again how I mentioned that "kings go out to BATTLE" at a particular time of year, in Scripture... connecting the calendar dates precisely... which I won't go into all that here)... especially when the husband is supposed to "cheer up his wife" [as the kjv puts it ] for one year after being wed, before he would go to WAR... but even if you don't see that as relevant (Deut24:5), does it really make sense that the "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-With]" thing (1Th4:17) which occurs at "our Rapture [/SNATCH]" (i.e. THE MARRIAGE) would take place ON THE SAME DAY as this "WARRING" thing that Rev19:11 / 17:14/19:19 speaks of?!? (involving "His ARMIES" coming out of heaven, and so forth)