Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

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Christians should drink alcohol ...

  • Only once in a great long while, and only for special occasions chosen by God.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In any amount, at any time, for God placed no restrictions on the drinking of alcohol.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ???, I don't know if or when God allows the drinking of alcohol, as I am still studying this out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Can only drink alcohol when in God's service or ministry.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    29

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,171
3,699
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#81
Why are you bringing up "tipsy", and how do you define it? You used the phrase, "in moderation" before.
I guess I mean by tipsy as starting to feel the effects of alcohol. The first thing alcohol affects is judgment. Rather, we should be sober minded.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#82
I guess I mean by tipsy as starting to feel the effects of alcohol. The first thing alcohol affects is judgment. Rather, we should be sober minded.
Some people "feel the effects" after one sip. Does that mean they are "tipsy"?

Is "sober minded" in context actually referring to alcohol? No, it is not. It only appears once in the KJV, in Titus 2:6, and in context, it means "having demonstrated good judgment".

If you want to make a definitive statement regarding alcohol, use definitive terms. ;)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,171
3,699
113
#83
Some people "feel the effects" after one sip. Does that mean they are "tipsy"?

Is "sober minded" in context actually referring to alcohol? No, it is not. It only appears once in the KJV, in Titus 2:6, and in context, it means "having demonstrated good judgment".

If you want to make a definitive statement regarding alcohol, use definitive terms. ;)
Agreed about Titus 2:6. First thing alcohol affects is judgment. That’s a definitive fact.
 
O

Oblio

Guest
#84
It is my understanding that alcohol, like any other drug, affects people differently. Then there's the paradoxical reaction of some.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#85
Agreed about Titus 2:6. First thing alcohol affects is judgment. That’s a definitive fact.
Yes, alcohol (eventually) affects judgment; no argument there. You still have not defined "tipsy". Do you plan to do so, or shall I conclude that you are just here to promote your pro-abstinence position?
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
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#86
This thread is about "Alcohol - a world wide phenomena" from a Bible perspective.

Does the Bible talk about alcohol?

What does the Bible say about alcohol if it does talk about it?

Does the Bible give any warnings or prohibitions abouto it's use or improper use?

Does the Bible say anything about alcohol being a serious health problem in the last days or end times?

Did anyone drink alcohol in the Bible, and if so, who and for what reason?

If there are examples in the Bible of persons drinking alcohol, are they examples of good or evil?

If alcohol is mentioned in the Bible, what words are used for it, and what words are associated and/or surrounding it/them?

Yes.
No alcohol in in God's ministry.
Allowed without drunkenness or heavy (hard liquor) drink.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#88
people dont understand that wine is just pressed grapes. You can have non-alcoholic wine
anyone whos worked in a vineyard understand this.

old wine is made of pressed fermented grapes...OLD grapes.
new wine is freshly pressed NEW grapes. It hasnt been fermented.

wine is just liquid made from grapes. to infer its ALWAYS alcoholic is to actually twist the original meaning.

when jesus said to drink wine he wasnt meaning it had to be ALCOHOLIC. He referred to it as fruit of the vine. The wine respresenting blood was in reference to its colour.


'strong drink' was more likely to refer to alcohol content of any kind of drink, not necessarily wine.

as an example unleavened bread is still bread its made of the same things as bread just without the leaven or yeast

leavened bread contains yeast.

both are BREAD.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,074
1,278
113
#89
people dont understand that wine is just pressed grapes. You can have non-alcoholic wine
anyone whos worked in a vineyard understand this.

old wine is made of pressed fermented grapes...OLD grapes.
new wine is freshly pressed NEW grapes. It hasnt been fermented.

None of this is correct. New wine is alcoholic wine that has a lower percentage of alcohol. Older wine has higher.

Pressed grapes into juice is not wine.

I have a small grape vine on my property. They are wine grapes. They are very different from the grapes that are sweet and from the store. Wine grapes are usually bitter, with huge seeds and a very thick skin. The juice is awful. They are only suitable for making wine. Ppl like you have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,319
1,448
113
#90
None of the choices are correct. All are examples of a new Christian Law.

The answer is: In all things be led by the Spirit.

God forbade me to drink alcohol for several years. And then I was permitted. I know a man who became religiously abstinent because of his addiction. God healed him and he can now drink alcohol without addiction or fear.
The clear Biblical mandate missing in the choices is that drunkenness is forbidden. I suppose the Spirit may give permission for one to drink alcohol, but He will not give permission of get drunk (which is SIN).
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,171
3,699
113
#91
Yes, alcohol (eventually) affects judgment; no argument there. You still have not defined "tipsy". Do you plan to do so, or shall I conclude that you are just here to promote your pro-abstinence position?
Tipsy - when the alcohol reaches the brain and begins to affect the thought process, your judgment. Judgment is affected before any physical impairment.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,171
3,699
113
#92
None of this is correct. New wine is alcoholic wine that has a lower percentage of alcohol. Older wine has higher.

Pressed grapes into juice is not wine.

I have a small grape vine on my property. They are wine grapes. They are very different from the grapes that are sweet and from the store. Wine grapes are usually bitter, with huge seeds and a very thick skin. The juice is awful. They are only suitable for making wine. Ppl like you have no idea what you are talking about.
New wine is found in the clusters.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
13,861
113
#93
New wine is found in the clusters.
There can be alcohol present while the grapes are still on the vine.

You are welcome to abstain, but you cannot make a biblical case to impose total abstinence on anyone else. It simply isn't possible.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
#94
The clear Biblical mandate missing in the choices is that drunkenness is forbidden. I suppose the Spirit may give permission for one to drink alcohol, but He will not give permission of get drunk (which is SIN).
Everything should be measured by the standard of sonship and being led by the Spirit. Drunkenness is when 1) you cannot respond to the Spirit or hear Him and 2) when you cannot be self-controlled. The amount of alcohol required for this level of impairment will be different for each believer.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
#95
The clear Biblical mandate missing in the choices is that drunkenness is forbidden. I suppose the Spirit may give permission for one to drink alcohol, but He will not give permission of get drunk (which is SIN).
The question was not about drunkenness by about consumption.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#96
You are free to choose to abstain completely, for any reason at all. You are free to your opinions, whatever
they may be. However, making judgments of others when you don't know everyone, is unwarranted.
Especially since Scripture advises the use of alcohol under certain conditions :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#97
Do you know anyone who only drinks one always? Never, ever gets tipsy? Not me.
Why are you bringing up "tipsy", and how do you define it? You used the phrase, "in moderation" before.
Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the bitter in soul.
Let him drink and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Proverbs 31:6-7
 
May 22, 2020
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#98
I guess I mean by tipsy as starting to feel the effects of alcohol. The first thing alcohol affects is judgment. Rather, we should be sober minded.
The reason the Bible uses...sober....which includes any .....mind altering substance.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#99
The reason the Bible uses...sober....which includes any .....mind altering substance.
I agree that sobriety means abstinence from mind and mood altering substances not exclusive to alcohol :)
 
May 22, 2020
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There can be alcohol present while the grapes are still on the vine.

You are welcome to abstain, but you cannot make a biblical case to impose total abstinence on anyone else. It simply isn't possible.

WHOA......Are you making room for those in God's service? I refer to specific scripture.