when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.

[de-emerald]

I can't believe the degree to which people are willing to perform mental gymnastics and medieval word torture in order to make unclear something that has always been unquestionably clear:

Sinners can neither embrace or demonstrate God's "agape" without first surrendering their hearts to Him.
"Apart from Me, ye can do nothing".

Yes, everyone was clear on this until Phoneman-777 comes along and says...​

...if "agape" is demonstrated by keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV)...
...but the wicked can't keep God's commandments even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV)...
...therefore, the "many" in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV who allow iniquity to kill their "agape" cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end and lost....are saints and OSAS is false.​

Now, Composthuman and his disciple Dino420, after seeing their beloved OSAS doctrine die a horrible, agonizing death right here, refuse to accept the truth. They can't allow their OSAS License to Sin to expire. So, they're forced to leap on altars and howl like madmen and cut themselves trying to resurrect OSAS with the ridiculously indefensible argument, "Oh hell yeah, the wicked can partake of "agape" all day long!" and deny the truth of Scripture that if we can't keep God's commandments, we can't demonstrate God's "agape".

hi brother please don't listen to people questioning if your saved after giving your example of salvation, or the defiling remarks of your character.

May I ask you a question, you know that a brother can struggle to repent, should this not also mean a brother can show wickedness.. until they do repent.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

God instructs His people to deal with Satan. God did not kill witches. He told His people to do it. If they refused, as happened from time to time, God did not do it for them.

So God sends/permits satan for the faithful, with to deal? Was it to amuse the elect with their new found powers? Like naming your son Sue.
Consider, Mark 3:29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

I've been in meetings where there have been witches. One time I heard a demon talk in tongues. There was no fire from heaven and no lightning bolt.

So if the witch was among the elect, is it ok to hang out with them? I certainly hope she/he/nonbinary was a christian witch.
2 John 1:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Adam was given authority over all of God's creation. Satan, in the form of a serpent, is a created being opposed to God.

Adam was given dominion of the earth, nothing of the spirit realm. So what is the devil, animal or spirit? Are we not fighting a spiritual war? Or should we start stomping on a critter's head?
Gen 1:28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Adam could and should have rejected Satan's temptation and eaten from the tree of life. He would then be full of the life of God and be able to deal Satan. Lord Jesus came as the last Adam. He defeated Satan in the wilderness and at every other encounter.

So when God sends/permits these evil spirits to harry the decendants of Adam, it is to remind us of the tree of life? Like some federal headship reminder? "We were contenders".

I think the doctrine of predestination warps all things Christian. Do you believe in predestination vis-a-vis God's Creation?

 

[rogerg]

No matter how many times the Bible tells us that works are simply the evidence of our choice to believe and accept or disbelieve and reject salvation (1 John 2:3-4 KJV), the hypergrace crowd will insist there's no evidence for salvation except my own profession, and the mere suggestion that "good works" are the evidence that must accompany that profession is met with the same old tired protests.

Straw man. I've never said that, nor does anyone who believes as I do think that. We believe that God alone is Saviour.
and therefore, He alone must be the one who saves. The Bible informs that those saved are called unto good works. No one can perform truly good spiritual work until becoming saved.

James can tell us faith without works is dead, but no matter.
John can tell us a man who keeps not His commandments is a liar, but no matter.
Paul can tell us not the hearers of the word, but the doers of the word, but no matter.ell
Jesus can tell us if we love Him, keep His commandments, but no matter.
Revelation tells us those who have a right to the Tree of Life keep His commandments, but no matter.

So, by your quoting of James and the others, are you saying that our works are really a necessity in any sense for salvation
(by the way, the works spoken of in James are the works of Christ not the works of an individual)
If one has to keep any commandments to gain salvation, then works are definitely a requirement for salvation.

No matter how many verses show good works don't earn salvation, but are the evidence we've been saved...it doesn't matter. The "not Thy will, but My will" crowd will only regard those who quote these verses as teaching "works based salvation". It's a temporary problem...Jesus is coming soon and is not going to put up with those who insist on having it their own way.

Didn't you post the following?

"I think you’ve totally missed the point which has nothing to do with whom salvation is available. "

What did you mean by "available"? If only available as you say, then according to that, an action would be
required on the part of those who want to receive it to make it more than just "available"?

My point in siting Saul/Paul was to demonstrate that God must save first and from that do all other attributes
of a true Christian emerge, not before. Saul/Paul was the perfect example of that because he was the chief sinner.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

Amen brother, this is perfect example of human beings not having the authority of heavenly authority on certain matters.

Yes. And God does not deal with evil spirits except for a huge mountain on their heads and a flaming lake given as a Gift.

 

[de-emerald]

Yes. And God does not deal with evil spirits except for a huge mountain on their heads and a flaming lake given as a Gift.

amen.

 

[wintersrain]

So, why were Paul and David so concerned about being "castaways" if there was no chance of them winding up cast away?

Look, if we read only the parts we like, we can make the Bible say anything. OSAS clings to the many wonderful assurance verses and ignores the other verses which qualify the assurance as conditional - on condition that we confess and forsake our sin.

You don't know a lot about Christianity or you wouldn't get it all twisted.

We confess and forsake our sin when we come to Christ through the grace of God's free unchangeable gift of faith and Salvation.
If we had to work to stay saved there would be no peace in Christ. Jesus did the work on the cross.

God's grace calls us to faith and Salvation. And God knows everything from beginning to end. And Jesus said no one who comes to him will be lost. When God knows us from beginning to end and still calls us to his grace, God knows what's going to happen between then and the day we die.

If we lose faith that's not going to surprise all knowing God. He died to save us. He's not going to give up on us because we make mistakes.

We are sealed unto the end of time when we're in the faith. Everything you and others who are opposed to the Gospel, and that is what you are when you deny its message, are failures before God's eyes.
Because you work to lead people to doubt their Salvation. And as you do that you impart the message God lied, and Jesus died for nothing. I would feel sorry for you if you weren't so committed to going to Hell and taking others with you.

The blessed good news that counters that? You shall never ever be accompanied by a single Christian there.

Happy trails.

 

[Gideon300]

Amen brother, this is perfect example of human beings not having the authority of heavenly authority on certain matters.
hi brother, I'm not sure your seeing completely see what our brother is saying, so I'm going to ask you to think about this,. Please think about these questions, I know you are intelligent and a good brother so When ever you see a person preaching OSAS, would you say a high majority of them get offended when another brother suggests to them Salvation can be lost, ? Please answer this.

Now on the flip side the irony is OSAS is always preaching to brothers here, there salvation can be lost, by preaching to brothers what they must not do to gain salvation, such as performing works do not gain salvation, so in effect there saying to brothers I have to question if your saved if you believe this, which is no different to a brother saying the Bible says a bother can denounce there faith. Both arguments ultimately have the bottom line is a brother is not saved,

As you know faith without works is dead, but that sentence does not say the person who has no works at the time of being told this, may be dead in spirit completely.

Also the sentence that says a brother may denounce there faith, does not say that brother is immediately dead in spirit when told this.

This is why we can not make the decision of who is saved or not I believe you can come to the decision also if you understand my questions that OSAS is on error because it teaches and preaches blindly with ignorance to brothers that a person can lose there salvation more than any other doctrine on the planet.
, And it does it with pride and gets a way with upsetting a brother every time, because the brother is is made to look bad for questioning OSAS who are ultimately preaching salvation can be lost by a brother, and many brothers have become upset at the moment of believing works will make you lose your salvation.

The brother never even thought works would lose them there salvation untill it was preached by OSAS,

And I know brothers of OSAS will say no that's not what we mean,. But really they don't see what damage there doing to the brother who loves works.

It still does not get to the heart of the issue. I don't know what else I can say. I suppose we must toss out the word "save" because that is the root of all the confusion. I'll try another way.

To be born again is instant and irreversible. Eternal means eternal. Let's ditch the word "saved" and replace it with delivered. We could then say, "Once born again, always born again". From that time on, we experience progressive deliverance from all that is ungodly and unholy. Or we should, anyway. That is why it says to work out our deliverance with fear and trembling.

John says that to be a child of God we must receive Christ and believe into His name. I say "into" because that is what the Greek implies. Too many think it means believing the facts about Jesus. It's far deeper than that.

We are told something different in Romans. It says that if we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts, we shall be delivered. Lord Jesus tells us that if we endure to the end, we shall be delivered.

Christian growth is not measured by what we gain. We already have everything that God has for us. It's all wrapped in the one gift, Jesus. He is our wisdom, power, sanctification, holiness, righteousness and everything we could possibly need. We are complete in Him!

If only Christians saw this it would change them forever. When we start confessing who Jesus is on our behalf, instead of worrying about our own shortcomings, we will begin to change. But we always change by exchange. God rids us of something of self and gives us Christ instead. Do we need patience? God will not give us a "patience pill" so to speak. He give us Jesus. Then we should choose Him to be our patience. God longs for us to say, "I can't". But it is just as important to know and confess, "But Jesus can".

I said before that we do not grow by what we gain. We do grow by what we lose. When we lose confidence in self, we should be placing our confidence in Christ. When we can't love our spouse because we are too selfish, we should exchange natural love for the love of Christ.

It's taken me decades of heartache and failure to learn these things. My hope is to spare some Christians some of the trials that I've endured. The wise man learns from his mistakes. If you are really smart, you learn from other people's mistakes.

 

[Gideon300]

You don't know a lot about Christianity or you wouldn't get it all twisted.

We confess and forsake our sin when we come to Christ through the grace of God's free unchangeable gift of faith and Salvation.
If we had to work to stay saved there would be no peace in Christ. Jesus did the work on the cross.

God's grace calls us to faith and Salvation. And God knows everything from beginning to end. And Jesus said no one who comes to him will be lost. When God knows us from beginning to end and still calls us to his grace, God knows what's going to happen between then and the day we die.

If we lose faith that's not going to surprise all knowing God. He died to save us. He's not going to give up on us because we make mistakes.

We are sealed unto the end of time when we're in the faith. Everything you and others who are opposed to the Gospel, and that is what you are when you deny its message, are failures before God's eyes.
Because you work to lead people to doubt their Salvation. And as you do that you impart the message God lied, and Jesus died for nothing. I would feel sorry for you if you weren't so committed to going to Hell and taking others with you.

The blessed good news that counters that? You shall never ever be accompanied by a single Christian there.

Happy trails.

I know what you are saying and I agree. However, I do think you are being overly harsh. There is a difference between speaking the truth in love and being judgemental. It's a fine line and easy to cross.

 

[wintersrain]

It still does not get to the heart of the issue. I don't know what else I can say. I suppose we must toss out the word "save" because that is the root of all the confusion. I'll try another way.

To be born again is instant and irreversible. Eternal means eternal. Let's ditch the word "saved" and replace it with delivered. We could then say, "Once born again, always born again". From that time on, we experience progressive deliverance from all that is ungodly and unholy. Or we should, anyway. That is why it says to work out our deliverance with fear and trembling.

John says that to be a child of God we must receive Christ and believe into His name. I say "into" because that is what the Greek implies. Too many think it means believing the facts about Jesus. It's far deeper than that.

We are told something different in Romans. It says that if we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts, we shall be delivered. Lord Jesus tells us that if we endure to the end, we shall be delivered.

Christian growth is not measured by what we gain. We already have everything that God has for us. It's all wrapped in the one gift, Jesus. He is our wisdom, power, sanctification, holiness, righteousness and everything we could possibly need. We are complete in Him!

If only Christians saw this it would change them forever. When we start confessing who Jesus is on our behalf, instead of worrying about our own shortcomings, we will begin to change. But we always change by exchange. God rids us of something of self and gives us Christ instead. Do we need patience? God will not give us a "patience pill" so to speak. He give us Jesus. Then we should choose Him to be our patience. God longs for us to say, "I can't". But it is just as important to know and confess, "But Jesus can".

I said before that we do not grow by what we gain. We do grow by what we lose. When we lose confidence in self, we should be placing our confidence in Christ. When we can't love our spouse because we are too selfish, we should exchange natural love for the love of Christ.

It's taken me decades of heartache and failure to learn these things. My hope is to spare some Christians some of the trials that I've endured. The wise man learns from his mistakes. If you are really smart, you learn from other people's mistakes.

Simply put, eternal life is eternal. Eternal Salvation is eternal.

It's the eternal part that they don't understand. The other thing that is impossible to comprehend is, why would any Christian insist they're not eternally saved?

 

[wintersrain]

I know what you are saying and I agree. However, I do think you are being overly harsh. There is a difference between speaking the truth in love and being judgemental. It's a fine line and easy to cross.

Lord have mercy. I don't apologize for being judgmental. It isn't against God and in fact it's required in order to arrive at sound judgment.

And I meant every word.
Harsh? Is joining a forum where Christians mingle and starting discussions trying to lead us to believe we're not redeemed in Christ or eternally saved.
Harsh? Is calling Jesus a liar by proxy of nonsense claims that OSAS is not in the Bible. Harsh? Would be adopting a snowflake persona and encouraging devils to blaspheme and call God a liar over and over again, page after page, while trying to lead that which has no intention of being led to the truth of God in Christ.

No Christian alive thinks they're not eternally saved in Christ.
It's an oxymoron. Saved! But not really. And that's what opponents of the Gospel are preaching.


God bless harsh! It beats being in league with the Devil and tolerating his minions blasphemy against all that Jesus did for our souls.

 

[Gideon300]

So, why were Paul and David so concerned about being "castaways" if there was no chance of them winding up cast away?

Look, if we read only the parts we like, we can make the Bible say anything. OSAS clings to the many wonderful assurance verses and ignores the other verses which qualify the assurance as conditional - on condition that we confess and forsake our sin.

You do not know the difference between being born again, which is eternal and irreversible and the progressive "salvation of the soul".

 

[Gideon300]

Lord have mercy. I don't apologize for being judgmental. It isn't against God and in fact it's required in order to arrive at sound judgment.

And I meant every word.
Harsh? Is joining a forum where Christians mingle and starting discussions trying to lead us to believe we're not redeemed in Christ or eternally saved.
Harsh? Is calling Jesus a liar by proxy of nonsense claims that OSAS is not in the Bible. Harsh? Would be adopting a snowflake persona and encouraging devils to blaspheme and call God a liar over and over again, page after page, while trying to lead that which has no intention of being led to the truth of God in Christ.

No Christian alive thinks they're not eternally saved in Christ.
It's an oxymoron. Saved! But not really. And that's what opponents of the Gospel are preaching.


God bless harsh! It beats being in league with the Devil and tolerating his minions blasphemy against all that Jesus did for our souls.

Just remember that God judges us as we judge others

 

[de-emerald]

It still does not get to the heart of the issue. I don't know what else I can say. I suppose we must toss out the word "save" because that is the root of all the confusion. I'll try another way.

To be born again is instant and irreversible. Eternal means eternal. Let's ditch the word "saved" and replace it with delivered. We could then say, "Once born again, always born again". From that time on, we experience progressive deliverance from all that is ungodly and unholy. Or we should, anyway. That is why it says to work out our deliverance with fear and trembling.

John says that to be a child of God we must receive Christ and believe into His name. I say "into" because that is what the Greek implies. Too many think it means believing the facts about Jesus. It's far deeper than that.

We are told something different in Romans. It says that if we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts, we shall be delivered. Lord Jesus tells us that if we endure to the end, we shall be delivered.

Christian growth is not measured by what we gain. We already have everything that God has for us. It's all wrapped in the one gift, Jesus. He is our wisdom, power, sanctification, holiness, righteousness and everything we could possibly need. We are complete in Him!

If only Christians saw this it would change them forever. When we start confessing who Jesus is on our behalf, instead of worrying about our own shortcomings, we will begin to change. But we always change by exchange. God rids us of something of self and gives us Christ instead. Do we need patience? God will not give us a "patience pill" so to speak. He give us Jesus. Then we should choose Him to be our patience. God longs for us to say, "I can't". But it is just as important to know and confess, "But Jesus can".

I said before that we do not grow by what we gain. We do grow by what we lose. When we lose confidence in self, we should be placing our confidence in Christ. When we can't love our spouse because we are too selfish, we should exchange natural love for the love of Christ.

It's taken me decades of heartache and failure to learn these things. My hope is to spare some Christians some of the trials that I've endured. The wise man learns from his mistakes. If you are really smart, you learn from other people's mistakes.

hey brother I believe it's enough to be told your saved, I don't think there's a need to preach over that, I don't believe growing has anything to do with remaining saved once you've been saved,. I don't find a need to preach your not saved if you don't believe the way I do. Which quite often OSAS has, that is one of the many errors, in OSAS, which lets not for get is a doctrine. Secondly bro I really can't see why OSAS should feel the need to tell Christians this, over and over again of what they must not do to gain salvation. The irony is bro that OSAS is only a interpretation of a person own interpretation of salvation , and its a man made doctrine, the other irony is that anti OSAS is also preaching there own interpretation of Salvation, but I do not see a daily doctrine of works for salvation which OSAS suggest everyday here that there is. I only see Christians defending the law and works. It is the doctrine of OSAS that promotes the agenda that Christians are teaching works for salvation. And I see many people applauding each other for it and giving each other favour after insulting a Christian who is merely defending good works and the law.

Are you sure now that OSAS is now not a doctrine for anti Christians to insult Christians with,. Because that's all I ever see.
I know that Christians want to preach the gospel of being saved by salvation not cause someone a grudge over salvation

 

[wintersrain]

Just remember that God judges us as we judge others

The go-to of every person who condemns others judging false teaching.
1 Corinthians 6:2
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Show the passage in the Bible where we're to tolerate false teaching and not judge.
Your post calling me out for judgement is judgment.
Posting a single post condemning false teachers who speak against the Gospel is judgment.

 

[wintersrain]

hey brother I believe it's enough to be told your saved, I don't think there's a need to preach over that, I don't believe growing has anything to do with remaining saved once you've been saved,. I don't find a need to preach your not saved if you don't believe the way I do. Which quite often OSAS has, that is one of the many errors, in OSAS, which lets not for get is a doctrine. Secondly bro I really can't see why OSAS should feel the need to tell Christians this, over and over again of what they must not do to gain salvation. The irony is bro that OSAS is only a interpretation of a person own interpretation of salvation , and its a man made doctrine, the other irony is that anti OSAS is also preaching there own interpretation of Salvation, but I do not see a daily doctrine of works for salvation which OSAS suggest everyday here that there is. I only see Christians defending the law and works. It is the doctrine of OSAS that promotes the agenda that Christians are teaching works for salvation. And I see many people applauding each other for it and giving each other favour after insulting a Christian who is merely defending good works and the law.

Are you sure now that OSAS is now not a doctrine for anti Christians to insult Christians with,. Because that's all I ever see.
I know that Christian want preach the gospel of being saved by salvation not cause someone s grudge over salvation

"Are you sure now that OSAS is now not a doctrine for anti Christians to insult Christians with,. Because that's all I ever see." I bet. Because that's what you and Phone are doing here.

And eternal Salvation, the Gospel, doesn't teach we have to labor to stay saved.
You really don't know what you're talking about. And a Christian is not your brother.

 

[Phoneman-777]

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen c away, to be brought back to repentance.

Have you wondered that this just may not imply a brother may lose there salvation, I bet most brothers have.

No, because it plainly describes saints who wind up falling away into a state of impenitence.

Ok it's says it's impossible, and that could be a figure of speech to mean its hard task to get those who believe there saved and those who are saved to repent for many reasons but one being,

There's a diff between a hard task and an impossible task. It's hard for the Holy Spirit to lead to back to repentance a saint who stubbornly refuses to humble himself, but it's impossible once he finally burns out his conscience with the hot iron of pride.

As you see many times those who claim there saved in OSAS or Preach OSAS and are saved will not repent to a brother when they have clearly upset a brother and it is impossible to get those preaching OSAS, but not all who take this attitude to repent, they take the attitude I don't need to repent to you or anyone else when clearly they do, when the Bible is clear, that you must settle your debts.

I've found most are the least demonstrative of patience, kindness, meekness, sense of duty to God and neighbor, lacking generosity, and extremely prone to hypocrisy. They are, like a spoiled teenager, usually spiritual adolescents who shirk their responsibility to "sanctify yourselves in obedience to the Word through the Spirit" where we first yield our will to Jesus' will and He then lives out His obedient life in us by the Holy Spirit.

Of cause as well you have the saved believer who is blindly in error, and the stubborn as a muel syndrome kicks in, and they can blindly argue for ever and ever, and it is impossible to bring them people also to repentance,

Or you must not falsely accuse a brother, but the brother because he's saved thinks he does not need to repent and he has not when he has, and in these situations it's impossible to bring them to repentance, but not impossible all together,. The scriptures sats it's impossible but it does not say it is not impossible,.

So could you see that Hebrews 6:4 may not just mean a brother has lost there salvation at the moment there told this scripture, ?

I think I get your point. To me, the saint's journey from saint to lost sinner is not instantaneous. It begins with the saint intermingling "Not my will, but Thine" with "Not Thy will, but mine." Eventually, all he is heard is saying the latter and the former is heard no more.

 

[de-emerald]

No, because it plainly describes saints who wind up falling away into a state of impenitence.
There's a diff between a hard task and an impossible task. It's hard for the Holy Spirit to lead to back to repentance a saint who stubbornly refuses to humble himself, but it's impossible once he finally burns out his conscience with the hot iron of pride.
I've found most are the least demonstrative of patience, kindness, meekness, sense of duty to God and neighbor, lacking generosity, and extremely prone to hypocrisy. They are, like a spoiled teenager, usually spiritual adolescents who shirk their responsibility to "sanctify yourselves in obedience to the Word through the Spirit" where we first yield our will to Jesus' will and He then lives out His obedient life in us by the Holy Spirit.
I think I get your point. To me, the saint's journey from saint to lost sinner is not instantaneous. It begins with the saint intermingling "Not my will, but Thine" with "Not Thy will, but mine." Eventually, all he is heard is saying the latter and the former is heard no more.

hi bro fair enough I see your points. Is falling away the same for everyone who falls away,. Just here me out after reading this.
Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial

27“You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written:

“ ‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep will be scattered.’ d
28But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.”

29Peter declared, “Even if all fall away, I will not.”

30“Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “today—yes, tonight—before the rooster crows twice e you yourself will disown me three times.”


Ok her goes
Jesus said you will all fall away but he still comes back to save them. So is Jesus saying it's possible to disown me but I can still come back for you

 

[Phoneman-777]

This post shows just how ignorant you are of the subject you addressed.
People with your flawed understanding are the ones doing great damage.
You continue to shoe your ignorance of the subject with each post.

And people who think they can hold on to presumptuous sin and Jesus at the same time will split hell wide open.

 

[Phoneman-777]

hi brother please don't listen to people questioning if your saved after giving your example of salvation, or the defiling remarks of your character.

May I ask you a question, you know that a brother can struggle to repent, should this not also mean a brother can show wickedness.. until they do repent.

You're describing the experience of the "Just Man" who falls but rises again, which is not the same as the OSAS "Presumptuous Man" who thinks salvation is a License to Sin".

 

[de-emerald]

And people who think they can hold on to presumptuous sin and Jesus at the same time will split hell wide open.

so true bro
,