Alcohol - a world wide phenomena

[tourist]

Yes they were accused. Accusations are nothing, baseless.
It's also baseless to believe all the children were home during weddings when we weren't there.
One thing we do know.... kids ALWAYS want something to drink.
Not satisfied? Go to the store & buy a a few large bottles of grapejuice. I guarantee that at least one bottle will have some pressure in it when you open it.

They would not have been accused if the accusers believed that they were merely drinking grape juice. Not really sure how what you have written substantiates that Jesus did not actually turned water into wine with an alcohol content. Gases are formed in the process of fermentation. It is these gases that would expand the old wineskins causing them to burst.

 

[SophieT]

Did Jesus ever drink any alcohol?

quite possibly

I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in My Father’s kingdom.”
Matthew 26:29

not Welches...that makes no sense

Jesus also made wine. not a kiddie's drink for after school refreshment

 

[Dino246]

I gave the sources already (twice in fact), and some are mentioned in scripture. Please refer to the source material.

No, you provided a link to a download site. I am not downloading anything from a source I don't know. If you can't provide a brief explanation of the alleged preservation method, then I shall have to conclude that you have no evidence and are merely gassing off.

 

[Snacks]

I like:
Bud Light
Corona Light
Belgian Wheat beer
Dos Equis Amber
Moonshine

 

[Runningman]

This thread is about "Alcohol - a world wide phenomena" from a Bible perspective.

Does the Bible talk about alcohol?

What does the Bible say about alcohol if it does talk about it?

Does the Bible give any warnings or prohibitions abouto it's use or improper use?

Does the Bible say anything about alcohol being a serious health problem in the last days or end times?

Did anyone drink alcohol in the Bible, and if so, who and for what reason?

If there are examples in the Bible of persons drinking alcohol, are they examples of good or evil?

If alcohol is mentioned in the Bible, what words are used for it, and what words are associated and/or surrounding it/them?

I didn’t see an option for the way I wanted to vote so I’ll just explain. What I have seen and experienced in my personal life is that it depends on the individual.

While drinking alcohol is not expressly forbidden in the Bible, God sometimes requires individuals to not even drink at all. John the Baptist for example:

Luke 1:15 KJV
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Meanwhile, at minimum, Jesus facilitated alcohol consumption in His water-to-wine miracle (John 2:1-11).

So it depends. If you do drink then you can have a little bit as long as you don’t get drunk under any circumstances.

For other people it may be alcohol is forbidden. Personally I am called to never drink at all even a little bit and there are many good reasons for that.

 

[Edify]

They would not have been accused if the accusers believed that they were merely drinking grape juice. Not really sure how what you have written substantiates that Jesus did not actually turned water into wine with an alcohol content. Gases are formed in the process of fermentation. It is these gases that would expand the old wineskins causing them to burst.

Take a bottle of grape juice, open it, pour out a little, close it, & leave it out a few days unrefrigerated. It will build up gas, whether it's bad or not.
Wineskins were not kept cold because it was impossible to do so back then. New wine(grapejuice) would build pressure, & after a while would slowly ferment & produce a small amount of alcohol & vinegar, like all juices do.
It's true that fermented wine was produced on purpose back then, but all grapejuice was called wine. Thus the difference between wine & 'new wine'.

 

[oyster67]

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Problem here is the drunk, not the drink. Noah got drunk while the grandchildren were visiting. Excess is what is addressed here. Even Coffee can be abused.

 

[tourist]

Take a bottle of grape juice, open it, pour out a little, close it, & leave it out a few days unrefrigerated. It will build up gas, whether it's bad or not.
Wineskins were not kept cold because it was impossible to do so back then. New wine(grapejuice) would build pressure, & after a while would slowly ferment & produce a small amount of alcohol & vinegar, like all juices do.
It's true that fermented wine was produced on purpose back then, but all grapejuice was called wine. Thus the difference between wine & 'new wine'.

Regardless, wine is wine, and grape juice is grape juice. Nobody would serve grape juice at a wedding feast but rather champagne. It was never stated in the bible that Jesus created new wine but only that he changed water into wine.

 

[oyster67]

Regardless, wine is wine, and grape juice is grape juice. Nobody would serve grape juice at a wedding feast but rather champagne. It was never stated in the bible that Jesus created new wine but only that he changed water into wine.

Psalm 104:14-15 “You make grass grow for cattle and make vegetables for humans to use in order to get food from the ground. You make wine to cheer human hearts, olive oil to make faces shine, and bread to strengthen human hearts.”

Wine is for joy. If grape juice does it for you, run with it.

 

[tourist]

Wine is for joy. If grape juice does it for you, run with it.

I fully concur with your estimation. You are always the voice of reason my friend.

 

[Aerials1978]

I agree, with the exception that Romans 14 could prohibit alcohol for some people.

I think you could be right. If someone is say a recovering alcoholic and stumbles in their faith because a fellow believer choose to drink a glass of wine, that individual should love the other and not drink in front of them.

 

[Athanasius377]

The idea that ancient peoples were drinking grape juice is simply silly on its face. New wine or תִּירוֹשׁ is simply the term used for sweet wine. Meaning there is still quite a bit of sugar in it. You can still buy sweet wine in your grocery store today. Sweet wine generally has a lower alcohol content than יַ֫יִן which is normal fully fermented wine if you will. It is most certainly not grape juice. The only way you get grape juice is by pasteurizing it and thereby stopping the fermentation process. The method and technology wouldn't exist until methodist Thomas Bramwell Welch invented it in 1869 for the purpose of using grape juice for communion (yes, as in Welch's grape juice). Prior to that wine was always used (unless it was some weird heretical group). Look at the outside of a grape. See that white powder-looking stuff on the outside? That's yeast. Mash it up and you will get wine 100% of the time.

Second, if one went around trying to drink water you probably weren't going to be around very long. Wine is also an anti-septic then was often cut with water in order to make the water drinkable. So just because wine drinking was widespread didn't mean there were people staggering around hammered all the time.

At my previous church, we offered non-alcoholic wine (meaning trace amounts of alcohol present) to those who wished to abstain. If you feel you cannot drink wine and come to our church we will offer it as a choice for you too. Just don't be reading anachronisms back into the text of the bible because you have an issue with the abuse of alcohol. Abuse that is clearly forbidden.

 

[John146]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[JStates]

My evidence is the word wine. Wine contains alcohol. This isn't really all that complicated.

The word "wine" refers to fruit of the vine in Scriptures and it's ambiguous. However, I agree with your conclusions as I laid out in my post.

The word "strong drink" is a better term to key off of in the Scriptures because this refers to liquor. And strong drink is permissible. See the Bible verses in my last post. It's pretty clear.

If drinking alcohol were a sin, the Scriptures would simply say, "Drinketh thee no boozes." Instead we have principles about excess, drunkenness, decision making under the influence, etc.

 

[oyster67]

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Yes, I'm not deceived into thinking it is grape juice. It is to be partaken of in moderation. It mocks when it is partaken of in excess.

 

[oyster67]

The word "wine" refers to fruit of the vine in Scriptures and it's ambiguous. However, I agree with your conclusions as I laid out in my post.

The word "strong drink" is a better term to key off of in the Scriptures because this refers to liquor. And strong drink is permissible. See the Bible verses in my last post. It's pretty clear.

If drinking alcohol were a sin, the Scriptures would simply say, "Drinketh thee no boozes." Instead we have principles about excess, drunkenness, decision making under the influence, etc.

Yes. Paul even prescribed some to Timothy for his tummy troubles.

 

[John146]

Yes, I'm not deceived into thinking it is grape juice. It is to be partaken of in moderation. It mocks when it is partaken of in excess.

It destroys families and nations and causes millions in destruction. Society would be better off if there was no alcohol. Most if not all can’t drink in moderation, whatever that means.

 

[Dino246]

It destroys families and nations and causes millions in destruction. Society would be better off if there was no alcohol. Most if not all can’t drink in moderation, whatever that means.

You are free to choose to abstain completely, for any reason at all. You are free to your opinions, whatever they may be. However, making judgments of others when you don't know everyone, is unwarranted.

 

[John146]

You are free to choose to abstain completely, for any reason at all. You are free to your opinions, whatever they may be. However, making judgments of others when you don't know everyone, is unwarranted.

Do you know anyone who only drinks one always? Never, ever gets tipsy? Not me.

 

[Dino246]

Do you know anyone who only drinks one always? Never, ever gets tipsy? Not me.

Why are you bringing up "tipsy", and how do you define it? You used the phrase, "in moderation" before.