when will the most evil doctrin in the world get banned on this site.
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Let's not pretend sheep that go astray don't ever wind up in the mouth of the wolf before the Good Shepherd can get them back to the fold, OK?
Try reading in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV about those "many" grace-saved, blood-washed, born-again saints who allow abounding iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead, leaving them unable to endure to the end, and more lost than the merely lukewarm Laodiceans who wind up spat out of Jesus' mouth.
The problem is people do not understand the real point, you can't really be saved until you die, Paul said we have tp run the full race. Jesus told his own disciples that they must endure until the end, that is why he FORETOLD them al they would die, so they knew their fate beforehand. He didn't want them becoming Judas like traitors.
If lets ay Tenn. is "AHEAD" of Bama by 17-0 at half time most people would say they are "WINNING" but if they eventually lose 27-20 they were "NEVER WINNING" they were actually losing 17-0 at the halftime while ahead.
So, yea it is ONCE SAVED always saved, but you are not saved until you ENDURE to the very and, Salvation is contingent upon our staying true to Christ. This is why (THE ONLY REASON) Jesus says there will be many that say did we not do works in your name, etc. etc. and Jesus said he will tell them to depart from me for I never knew you. Why would they think thy are saved? OSAS jargon, of course. We an DO NOTHING to earn Salvation, but Gid also knows our heart, if we love sin more than God we ain't getting into heaven, which means you were never SAVED, because they did not die in Christ Jesus.
When the Holy Spirit LEAVES, you are heading to hell. BANK IT.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
The mindset is deep. Look up
1) "Calvinism made me a better atheist". His name is Derek Webb when he accepted his reprobation.
2) James White saying God is responsible for the death of a child due to cancer.
Those are only a couple without searching the net.
Calvinism is about predestination. God had one shot at the beginning of a deterministic universe. Everything is what it is because of that one shot. There is no free will. There is no choice. God is Sovereign of all things. That includes evil. God is responsible for all things - child rape, murder, genocide and anything a warped mind is capable of thinking.
My opinion is no, they hesitate to declare their calvinism. My first encounter with a reformed calvinist type left everyone queasy and shaking with rage. I had to take many showers so to speak. They hide in plain sight. I believe they are modern day nicolaitans. There are some questions which can shed some light to their beliefs and has to do with their TULIP points. I am usually blunt and insult their doctrine. No worries, their doctrines are unscriptural and blasphemous. There has been a lot of blowback against calvinist as their doctrines are vile and riled up many sermons against them. Most freelance preachers, from what I understand, are in the closet so to speak about their calvinism.
They ooze condescension. It is their modus operandi. Their proof texts are 1 verse deep and completely void of consistency. They require scaffolding from greek and pagan philosophies and cry complexity when it is questioned. They rely on the Christian etiquette to hide their ignorance as we are recommended to defer for the sake of unity. But, there can be no unity with blasphemies.
I believe some are not truthful, but what the hey, they can blame it on Jesus. No agenda, just prisoner of their own minds doing absurd things in the courtyard.
This is not nice to have to wake up to first thing in the morning. But the reality is we do everyday. Many of us wake up and say oh I'll deal with this another time or its too early in the morning for this I will deal with it later perhaps, and in some way the problems mentioned in your post here people do wake up to these problems everyday they're staring them in the face and they don't see it, what many people don't see is that Satan is and has been reaping havic all over the world. In most cases where Satan reaps trouble and manipulation he has no need to say God has sent me because the individual will not suspect he is there,. And in other cases Satan will say God has sent me because the individual will suspect something is there,
Growing pains maybe , but more like niggling pains now,When we read passages like the one I just showed you, we must suspend our thought-processes for a moment and consider if we’ve fully under God the way the Bible represents Him. In my honest option your beef seems with scripture, but when the messenger shows you inconvenient passages you can’t resist but blame him., but it’s okay i don’t blame you brother. Growing pains are uncomfortable.
Romans 9:19-24 KJV
19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
your quoting philosophy from the thoughts of a person's mind to determine your belief, re read verse 22 it's starts With what if, which is philosophy. And as for verse 21 it says has not the potter, moulded some to honour and some to dishonour, what on earth does has not mean, surely you can see, has not means deception, and a question not a absolute. There is a poem about the same philosophy which states I can't help the way I am I was molded from the clay paradise lost, and it's from Satan, who then gets other people to think the same way, Google a poem called paradise lost by the prince of darkness wrote by somebody I can't remember his name at the moment, wrote in 1600s known as the dark ages and at the same time when scriptures fell into the wrong hands.
Oh please please please man for goodness sake can you not see that the scripture you are quoting is philosophy from the mind of a person. Who may also be getting his thoughts deceived. There is no what if With God, you can't use this as absolute, to prove your own theory relating to other scripture,
This is a stab in the dark and nothing more it not absolute proof for this theory you've quoted, .
Ok I think I should probably explain the absolute truth about job 1 but I'm going to tell the story with a different insight and maybe the eyes of @Gardenias may be opened
hopefully if she will let me explain that is only if you want to hear it that is.
Everyone who is born again has the same Holy Spirit and the same Bible, whatever version they prefer. Anyone who thinks that it is OK to sin, is ignorant and needs to study God's word for themselves instead of taking someone else's word for it.
The root of the problem is the pseudo gospel that so many preach today. If a person is not convicted of sin, then they cannot be saved, I don't care how often or for how long they've been going to church. This "come to Jesus" stuff as if it's just a better feeling is false. You can't just invite Jesus into your heart. He's not going to dwell in a dead spirit. We have to be made alive first.
Without the indwelling Holy Spirit, there is only logic and reason to go by. They will always lead people astray. Satan also sends confusion into the minds of those who only have an intellectual concept.
I'm OSAS. I'm also sure that it's a far deeper work of God than many supposed Christians have experienced. How many church goers have been "cut to the heart" as were the listeners on the day of Pentecost. According to research done by a number of people, around 4% of churchgoers are born again. I have reason to believe that the number is in the ballpark, even in evangelical and Pentecostal circles.
Finally, if someone is seeking excuses to sin, I doubt their salvation is real. The Holy Spirit dwelling in the new, born again spirit, convicts of sin and the conscience does not let up.
Growing pains maybe , but more like niggling pains now,
There is a poem about the same philosophy which states I can't help the way I am I was molded from the clay paradise lost, and it's from Satan, who then gets other people to think the same way, Google a poem called paradise lost by the prince of darkness wrote by somebody I can't remember his name at the moment, wrote in 1600s known as the dark ages and at the same time when scriptures fell into the wrong hands.
Oh please please please man for goodness sake can you not see that the scripture you are quoting is philosophy from the mind of a person. Who may also be getting his thoughts deceived. There is no what if With God, you can't use this as absolute, to prove your own theory relating to other scripture,
This is a stab in the dark and nothing more it not absolute proof for this theory you've quoted, .
Ok I think I should probably explain the absolute truth about job 1 but I'm going to tell the story with a different insight and maybe the eyes of @Gardenias may be opened
This isn't just random philosophizing done by Paul even though I do agree he did that sometimes. This is part of his normal theology and we should try to make it our theology, too, i believe.
2 Cor. 4:7
7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2 Tim. 2:21
21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
A couple years ago it occurred to me the "many" of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV who fail to endure to the end and wind up lost, are irrefutably Saints...which ultimately disproves OSAS.
I think the "straitest" obstacle to the "strait gate" is not suffering or persecution or sacrifice...but having to cast out the idols of cherished false beliefs once they're shown to be such, after they've been a comfort and a crutch for so long.
The Scriptures are a beautiful Gift. Those who do not see, the magnificence of the literature and logic of the bible should guide them. If the accusers should come as angel of light, the trustworthy and truthful verses will expose them.
It is a spiritual war that we wage. The worldly heart has imprisoned the mind. Free the mind so they may reason through their sin. That is our obligatory love to our fellow human.
let's not pretend My Good Shepherd is unfaithful to save, or that He loses even one of His own.
you don't get to arbitrarily replace Him with a belial shepherd whenever it suits your private narrative.
- this is all previously discussed at length in another very long thread & your views utterly debunked.
- why then do you keep trying to insert these thoroughly rejected teachings?
- He wishes the Laodiceans were either hot or cold.
- why?
- cold is not called dead in Matthew 24; it is spoken of as 'good' in Revelation 3 in comparison with lukewarm.
- why?
- endure in what?
- Matthew 24 clearly allows for those whose love is cold to yet endure. He says "but"
- cold love is not love which ceases to exist
- are we saved by the erstwhile temperature of our love?
for example your own cherished belief that Christ teaches lies and is a worthless shepherd incapable of keeping His sheep?
that God brought us all into the world in order to annihilate us, our children and our animals?
you are very invested in convincing people who fully trust in Christ that their faith is misplaced.
i often wonder why? what is at the root of your debased psychology?
did you have some prayer once, that God would do something in your life, but He did not bend to your will? rather did His own?
and because you desired greatly a different outcome, rather than learning from what He did you thought to yourself, trusting in Him is insufficient? that you must by your own works, strength & force of self-will accomplish what He had not seen fit to grant you?
Yes, let's examine how you "debunked" the truth that the "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV are lost Saints:
1) First you made the ridiculous claim that the wicked are well able to partake of "agape" by falsely equating "agape" to "agapeo" and then referencing "men loved ("agapeo") darkness rather than light".
2) I exposed this false equivalence by pointing out "agape" is a royal divine love feast, while "agapeo" is a can of potted meat.
3) You switched tactics by conceding that these "many" may be Saints, but that "cold agape" doesn't mean "dead agape" and that these Saints were still A-OK.
4) I asked you if the merely lukewarm Laodiceans were going to be spat out of Jesus' mouth and lost, how in the world could these "many" Saints be OK when their cold agape makes them even more spit-worthy than these Laodiceans?
5) To this day, you haven't offered an explanation.
Rather than admit your error and toss out your OSAS doctrinal idol, you have the nerve to climb on here and pretend none of this didn't happen, and claim you "debunked" something. I'm not asking you to be perfect, just honest, but it's my experience that those who think they can freely disregard the Ten Commandments never hesitate to do so, especially in cases like this.
there is no need for you to make every thread in every forum yet another place to misrepresent me and try to spread your thoroughly discredited false teachings.
if it's what you want to talk about, go back to that thread and rant there some more.
this is off topic.
you are not adding value to the thread; you are detracting from it.
and this is exactly what Satan is called in revelation, Satan is called the false accuser of God's children, that's his title given to him by God, which in itself is far from a title the other people seem to think that Satan has been given by God which is the tempter or the tester. These are names that Satan has been called not a title or a role he has been given as some would claim here. Satan being called the tempter just describes his character that's what he does.
so let's be clear you're going to follow a philosophy with a What if. Because you feel you should follow the theology of Paul regardless of what he says anywhere, ? I feel it's fair I should only remind you of this scripture
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Now you really should read the scripture and you really should ask the question why would people examine Pauls scripture every day to see if it was true,
Lucifer took the role of Adversary by his own choosing. Therefore Christians have been made aware that he is all these things and more:
1. ADVERSARY = SATAN (from the Hebrew ha Satan)
2. ACCUSER OF THE BRETHREN
3. LIAR AND THE FATHER OF LIES
4. THE DECEIVER OF THE WHOLE WORLD
5. THAT OLD SERPENT
6. THE GREAT DRAGON
7. A ROARING LION
8. A FALSE ANGEL OF LIGHT
9. THE GOD OF THIS WORLD
10. THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR
Evidently you seem to be trying to defend Satan (the enemy of God, Christ, Christians, and Christianity), which would then make you a minion of Satan.
well I know that in the beginning everything God created he saw that it was Good, meaning God did not create Evil. Which means also God did not send evil to torment Paul so again I will ask the question why did the bereans examine Pauls scriptures everyday to see if they where true.
And all tho some of your post is true you have finished with a false accusation,. But what I will say as I have said befor you can defend Satan without even realising it,. Which seems to now be your narrative. But anyhow I thinks it about time we had a study what do you think ?.