Interpreting the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus: It's Really Good News!
- Thread starter Phoneman-777
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
oh, thanks.
i must have misread it earlier.
so we are agreed; physical death is not annihilation of the soul.
the person continues to exist either in life or in death - not the same 'death/life' paradigm as pertains to the flesh
What do you mean by "continues to exist" "in death"? Please 'flesh' that out a little more.
Take Satan for example.
Per 1 John 5:12 whoever does not have the Son does not have life. This is clearly not using animation of the body of dust as a definition for 'life'
Satan does not have life. Ergo, Satan has death. Again, not using the animation of the body as a definition.
Satan continues to exist.
Granted this is an angel, but why should the case for a man be different? And Satan certainly has personhood.
I think it only our spirit-soul that goes to paradise in heaven after the resurrection. Before that it went to the grave Brother, friend.
2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
Philippians 1:23
I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far.
Revelation 6:10
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
https://jesusplusnothing.com/series/post/deaththenwhat
somewhere Jesus said, God of the Living referring to people in the grave.
1 Corinthians 15:12-58
Easy-to-Read Version
We Will Be Raised From Death
12 We tell everyone that Christ was raised from death. So why do some of you say that people will not be raised from death? 13 If no one will ever be raised from death, then Christ has never been raised. 14 And if Christ has never been raised, then the message we tell is worth nothing. And your faith is worth nothing. 15 And we will also be guilty of lying about God, because we have told people about him, saying that he raised Christ from death. And if no one is raised from death, then God never raised Christ from death. 16 If those who have died are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised from death, then your faith is for nothing; you are still guilty of your sins. 18 And those in Christ who have already died are lost. 19 If our hope in Christ is only for this life here on earth, then people should feel more sorry for us than for anyone else.
20 But Christ really has been raised from death—the first one of all those who will be raised. 21 Death comes to people because of what one man did. But now there is resurrection from death because of another man. 22 I mean that in Adam all of us die. And in the same way, in Christ all of us will be made alive again. 23 But everyone will be raised to life in the right order. Christ was first to be raised. Then, when Christ comes again, those who belong to him will be raised to life. 24 Then the end will come. Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers. Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father.
25 Christ must rule until God puts all enemies under his control.[a] 26 The last enemy to be destroyed will be death. 27 As the Scriptures say, “God put everything under his control.”[ b ] When it says that “everything” is put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself. God is the one putting everything under Christ’s control. 28 After everything has been put under Christ, then the Son himself will be put under God. God is the one who put everything under Christ. And Christ will be put under God so that God will be the complete ruler over everything.
29 If no one will ever be raised from death, then what will the people do who are baptized for those who have died? If the dead are never raised, then why are people baptized for them?
30 And what about us? Why do we put ourselves in danger every hour? 31 I face death every day. That is true, brothers and sisters, just as it is true that I am proud of what you are because of Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 I fought wild animals in Ephesus. If I did that only for human reasons, then I have gained nothing. If we are not raised from death, “Let us eat and drink, because tomorrow we die.”[c]
33 Don’t be fooled: “Bad friends will ruin good habits.” 34 Come back to your right way of thinking and stop sinning. Some of you don’t know God. I say this to shame you.
What Kind of Body Will We Have?
35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? What kind of body will they have?” 36 These are stupid questions. When you plant something, it must die in the ground before it can live and grow. 37 And when you plant something, what you plant does not have the same “body” that it will have later. What you plant is only a seed, maybe wheat or something else. 38 But God gives it the body that he has planned for it, and he gives each kind of seed its own body. 39 All things made of flesh are not the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds have another, and fish have yet another kind. 40 Also there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the beauty of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the beauty of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of beauty, the moon has another kind, and the stars have another. And each star is different in its beauty.
42 It will be the same when those who have died are raised to life. The body that is “planted” in the grave will ruin and decay, but it will be raised to a life that cannot be destroyed. 43 When the body is “planted,” it is without honor. But when it is raised, it will be great and glorious. When the body is “planted,” it is weak. But when it is raised, it will be full of power. 44 The body that is “planted” is a physical body. When it is raised, it will be a spiritual body.
There is a physical body. So there is also a spiritual body. 45 As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.[d]”[e] But the last Adam[f] is a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. 47 The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. 48 All people belong to the earth. They are like that first man of earth. But those who belong to heaven are like that man of heaven. 49 We were made like that man of earth, so we will also be made like that man of heaven.
50 I tell you this, brothers and sisters: Our bodies of flesh and blood cannot have a part in God’s kingdom. Something that will ruin cannot have a part in something that never ruins. 51 But listen, I tell you this secret: We will not all die, but we will all be changed. 52 It will only take the time of a second. We will be changed as quickly as an eye blinks. This will happen when the last trumpet blows. The trumpet will blow and those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we will all be changed. 53 This body that ruins must clothe itself with something that will never ruin. And this body that dies must clothe itself with something that will never die. 54 So this body that ruins will clothe itself with that which never ruins. And this body that dies will clothe itself with that which never dies. When this happens, the Scriptures will be made true:
“Death is swallowed in victory.”
55 “O death, where is your victory?
Where is your power to hurt?”
56 Death’s power to hurt is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But we thank God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 So, my dear brothers and sisters, stand strong. Don’t let anything change you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord. You know that your work in the Lord is never wasted.
Read full chapter
Footnotes
1 Corinthians 15:25 control Literally, “feet.”
1 Corinthians 15:27 Quote from Ps. 8:6.
1 Corinthians 15:32 Quote from Isa. 22:13; 56:12.
1 Corinthians 15:45 person Literally, “soul.”
1 Corinthians 15:45 Quote from Gen. 2:7.
1 Corinthians 15:45 Adam The name Adam means “man.” Here, “the last Adam” refers to Christ, the “man of heaven.”
1 Corinthians 14
1 Corinthians 16
Unless I misunderstand you. Is it fair for a recreated soul and body to be judged for someonelse's sins on earth?
Clarification please.
I am not sure if there was two natures in Jesus. What other texts are you thinking of brother, friend?
How does Christ describe it in Luke 16?
Is Abraham's bosom, and Sheol, heaven and hell?
God certainly knows the words for heaven and for hell. But He doesn't use them here. Neither does He say the two men are annihilated, nor does He say they are in a frozen stasis.
Some people in this thread argue that God is lying in Luke 16, and that He is teaching pagan mythos and doctrines of demons. They say we are supposed to be smart enough not to believe Him.
But I believe God.
Am I stupid for doing so?
he stretched himself out on the child three times, and cried out to the LORD and said,
“O LORD my God, I pray, let this child’s soul come back to him"
(1 Kings 17:21)
why does the Bible so often & ubiquitously speak about the soul as though it is a thing person has?an entity which exists, has volition and emotion and understanding, and knowledge and capability to trust and understand and take action? why does God describe us as though our soul is an independent construct distinct from ourselves and our bodies?
your understanding of Genesis 2:7 seems awfully contrary to the entire witness of scripture.
Have mercy on me, O LORD, for I am in trouble;
My eye wastes away with grief,
Yes, my soul and my body!
(Psalm 31:9)
Not have life in that text refers to spiritual life. Satan is a living being that does not have spiritual life. He grieved away the Holy Spirit, but still has physical life.
Satan has a "celestial body", not of this "terrestrial" earth, but it is a physical body, as all angels have, having their own celestial flesh nature which differs from God's nature (Hebrews 2:16) and man's nature (Psalms 8:5; Hebrews 2:7,9) See also 1 Cor. 15:38-44; Jude 1:7; Ezekiel 28:13 (see also Philippians 3:21; Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25; Malachi 4:1 &c.)
Satan is dead spiritually speaking, but will not be dead physically until the End of Revelation 20; Ezekiel 28:19 at least.
Thus to be dead spiritually and physically, without possibility of resurrection, is to be anihilated, or second death. Satan will be burnt up into "smoke" and "ashes", see Malachi 4:3.
A man who dies, because of the sacrifice of Jesus for all, goes to the grave and sleeps until their respective resurrection.
The only existence of any one of them (deceased of physical life), exists in the mind of God, who knows all their thoughts, and in the record books of Heaven. None who die are physically alive anywhere.
The righteous who die (sleep death) and get resurrected soon, will not experience the second death. Jesus referred to this.
The unrepentant who die (sleep death) and get resurrected after the 1,000 years (Isa. 24; Rev. 20), will be punished and then experience the second death, total annihilation from which there is no resurrecting from. They will be spiritually dead, physically dead and undone permanently. God then recreates the New Heaven & Earth after they, including satan and his angels are all gone for good.