Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?

[Blik]

They both give the truth, but in such a different way.

Jesus jumps right into our lives both today and for eternity. Jesus says repent, and his ministry is telling us what the kingdom of heaven is like. Jesus wants us to live in this world kingdom as if it really is the kingdom of heaven. Jesus even asks us to pray each day for this, saying “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”.

Paul tells us all about Christ, and what Christ means to us. Paul isn’t so much for doing and being as he is for studying and learning. He even cautions us about being careful what we do, being sure it is not to earn salvation. He cautions us about the law all the time.

Christ explains that he doesn’t change anything his Father told us, but Christ explains the real law is a spiritual law for the Father is spirit and truth. Moses had given the law in stone to be obeyed by the letter, Jesus explained the law is of the heart. He carefully told us how this works as he explained the difference in the law from Moses and from him by showing how it worked in the law about murder, adultery, divorce, telling the truth, and loving our enemies. See Matt. 5:12-48.

When Paul explained this, he gives the impression to some people that God cancelled the law, even. Paul analyzes and explains until instead of the law freeing us it becomes some frightening thing.

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.

 

[Artios1]

I don’t look at it that way.

I read from the perspective of what is addressed to us → (the church of Grace) and what is for our learning…. and addressed to the Jew’s or Gentiles.

BUT

All scripture from head to toe, front to back…. is God breathed (given by inspiration of God).

(2Ti 3:16), (Gal 1:12), (2Pe 1:21)

There are 40 writers, but only one Author. The writers wrote with their own style, but all scripture was given by revelation.

 

[Dino246]

They both give the truth, but in such a different way.

Jesus jumps right into our lives both today and for eternity. Jesus says repent, and his ministry is telling us what the kingdom of heaven is like. Jesus wants us to live in this world kingdom as if it really is the kingdom of heaven. Jesus even asks us to pray each day for this, saying “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”.

Paul tells us all about Christ, and what Christ means to us. Paul isn’t so much for doing and being as he is for studying and learning. He even cautions us about being careful what we do, being sure it is not to earn salvation. He cautions us about the law all the time.

Christ explains that he doesn’t change anything his Father told us, but Christ explains the real law is a spiritual law for the Father is spirit and truth. Moses had given the law in stone to be obeyed by the letter, Jesus explained the law is of the heart. He carefully told us how this works as he explained the difference in the law from Moses and from him by showing how it worked in the law about murder, adultery, divorce, telling the truth, and loving our enemies. See Matt. 5:12-48.

When Paul explained this, he gives the impression to some people that God cancelled the law, even. Paul analyzes and explains until instead of the law freeing us it becomes some frightening thing.

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.

It would be so helpful if you would quote the Scripture verses to which you are referring, rather than paraphrasing them. That way we can all read for ourselves what Paul and Jesus are saying, and respond to that.

 

[Blik]

It would be so helpful if you would quote the Scripture verses to which you are referring, rather than paraphrasing them. That way we can all read for ourselves what Paul and Jesus are saying, and respond to that.

I am addressing the theme of the books written, not separate verses and I am speaking to people who follow each book reverently. So your post is impossible to answer in a satisfactory way.

However, at the beginning of each book of scripture the fleshly author (God is the true author) states his purpose. I feel certain Paul wrote Romans, and that book begins in Romans 1:1-6 telling us this is about Jesus Christ.

The theme of the gospels is best given in Matt 3:2 and Matt. 4:17. Both say Jesus came to tell us to: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Almost every verse of the gospels tell us how to live as if the kingdom of heaven was on earth. In the gospels, belonging to Christ has to do with the way we live, Paul speaks more of how we think.

 

[Dino246]

I am addressing the theme of the books written, not separate verses and I am speaking to people who follow each book reverently. So your post is impossible to answer in a satisfactory way.

You make several claims about what Paul and Jesus say, but you don't quote them. I don't see in Scripture where either says what you claim, so you might as well be talking about the going price of sheep liver in rural Borneo.

 

[Blik]

You make several claims about what Paul and Jesus say, but you don't quote them. I don't see in Scripture where either says what you claim, so you might as well be talking about the going price of sheep liver in rural Borneo.

If you read the gospels without reading that Christ is telling us how to live, and you read Paul without reading that he gives doctrine then you have no idea what I am discussing. My words can have no meaning for you, we must each go our own way.

 

[Blik]

I don’t look at it that way.

I read from the perspective of what is addressed to us → (the church of Grace) and what is for our learning…. and addressed to the Jew’s or Gentiles. .

If you see scripture as something to learn from, we can talk together, but if you limit your learning to learning about grace, or see God as addressing gentiles and Jews differently, then we are not on the same page.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

They both give the truth, but in such a different way.

Jesus jumps right into our lives both today and for eternity. Jesus says repent, and his ministry is telling us what the kingdom of heaven is like. Jesus wants us to live in this world kingdom as if it really is the kingdom of heaven. Jesus even asks us to pray each day for this, saying “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”.

Paul tells us all about Christ, and what Christ means to us. Paul isn’t so much for doing and being as he is for studying and learning. He even cautions us about being careful what we do, being sure it is not to earn salvation. He cautions us about the law all the time.

Christ explains that he doesn’t change anything his Father told us, but Christ explains the real law is a spiritual law for the Father is spirit and truth. Moses had given the law in stone to be obeyed by the letter, Jesus explained the law is of the heart. He carefully told us how this works as he explained the difference in the law from Moses and from him by showing how it worked in the law about murder, adultery, divorce, telling the truth, and loving our enemies. See Matt. 5:12-48.

When Paul explained this, he gives the impression to some people that God cancelled the law, even. Paul analyzes and explains until instead of the law freeing us it becomes some frightening thing.

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.

yeah it has to be Jesus the apostles were all his followers that’s what the church is Disciples of Jesus the Christ. That’s Paul’s message believe in and follow Jesus like I Paul do.

Paul was possibly the most dedicated of followers of Jesus and to hear his message he’s telling us to do the same. Paul’s goal in life was to be like Jesus following after him and tells us that’s the right mind to have

“Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3:8-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no doubt who to believe in and follow after Paul’s role was to witness these thing to us teaching us to follow Christ as he was with all his heart

 

[Artios1]

If you see scripture as something to learn from, we can talk together, but if you limit your learning to learning about grace, or see God as addressing gentiles and Jews differently, then we are not on the same page.

I love Paul, he makes me dig deep into the ways of the Lord. But for getting to the joy of living, to know the bottom line of all things, it is Christ I follow.

I guess I wasn’t real clear how I worded what I meant. …. maybe we are not on the same page and maybe it’s perspective.


I regard the entire Bible for my leaning, but the age of grace, the church epistles were written directly to us….so of course I am going to devote some serious time to understanding my walk in Christ Jesus….but I don’t just hang my hat there.

You appeared to separate Paul from the gospels when in fact they are just as much the words of Jesus as the gospels ….. Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I do not look at the epistles as from Paul….. but from Jesus Christ. Paul may have written it using his own style but, just as the gospels were written by Mat, Mark, Luke & John with their style of writing…. it all came by revelation, not by the will of man.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?

According to Scripture, the Holy Spirit is our "main guide".
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning... Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you... Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 15:26,27;16:7,13-15)

Christ is the Foundation, and the apostles are the pillars of the Church. But God the Holy Spirit takes everything that God the Father has given to us in the Bible and leads and guides us into all truth. When Christ returned to Heaven, He sent down the Holy Spirit to earth, and the Holy Spirit has many different ministries.

 

[gb9]

just another hebrew roots attempt to try to make Paul contradict Jesus.

 

[Dino246]

If you read the gospels without reading that Christ is telling us how to live, and you read Paul without reading that he gives doctrine then you have no idea what I am discussing. My words can have no meaning for you, we must each go our own way.

It would be easier for you if I did that, because it would spare you from the rigour of specificity and the discomfort of error.

 

[Jocund]

Jesus or Paul?

False dichotomy.

Here's a question for you: Old Testament or New Testament?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[[/QUOTE

According to Scripture, the Holy Spirit is our "main guide".
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning... Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you... Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 15:26,27;16:7,13-15)

Christ is the Foundation, and the apostles are the pillars of the Church. But God the Holy Spirit takes everything that God the Father has given to us in the Bible and leads and guides us into all truth. When Christ returned to Heaven, He sent down the Holy Spirit to earth, and the Holy Spirit has many different ministries.

isn’t Jesus the lord and isn’t it his spirit ?

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so it would be Jesus e light of the world we’re supposed to follow

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬[/QUOTE]

 

[Blik]

You appeared to separate Paul from the gospels when in fact they are just as much the words of Jesus as the gospels ….. Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I don't think Paul is separate from the gospels. Paul speaks from the Lord's voice.. Paul tells us the theme of all he says is Christ, that is not separating his word from Christ.

But Paul speaks of the doctrines of God, Paul speaks as a scholar. Christ speaks of living for the Lord. In fact there is a parable about this. Christ makes clear it isn't what you think, it is what you do. One son said he would not work for his father, but he did work for him. The other said he would work for the father, but he didn't work. The one who worked was praised, Matt. 21:23-32.

Paul wrote about how careful we must be of working for the wrong reasons, it takes real digging in the letters to find that Paul believes in working for the Lord. Paul emphasizes thinking more than he speaks of doing. Christ speaks of doing.

 

[Oblio]

Jesus started things. The rest of the N.T. authors continue that. Until I heard others talk about excluding Paul, it never occurred to me that one might see a conflict. I can understand why one might think this, but I got through it by never wavering in my belief that the bible is the word of God.
After decades of reading it, I've concluded that it never contradicts itself. I had to arrive here with the Lord's guidance...no one else could do this for me.
" …3if you truly call out to insight and lift your voice to understanding, 4if you seek it like silver and search it out like hidden treasure, 5then you will discern the fear of the LORD and discover the knowledge of God.…" - Proverbs 2:3-5 Berean Study Bible
I include the O.T. A different covenant, but it's full of God's wisdom. From Genesis to Revelation, I love the book because it helps me in so many ways. Paul is a great part of it. God speaks to me through all of it.

 

[p_rehbein]

Everyone here had better say JESUS. He is the way, the truth, and the life...........

Paul was an Apostle who preached the Gospel of Jesus.

Anyone following Paul is on the wrong path. Following Paul won't get anyone to eternal life! Reading what Paul preached is good, but placing him above/in front of Jesus is downright crazy!

 

[Oblio]

Or Yeshua! "Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ." 1 Corinthians 11:1 NIV - the apostle Paul

 

[p_rehbein]

Yes, but Paul was telling people to do as he did. FOLLOW JESUS. Not to follow him.

Guess that is what you meant?

 

[Oblio]

As a worship leader, "Don't focus on me, but do what I'm doing...even though I can't see Him, I'm singing to Him."