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I would say mostly past tense, but God has raised Israel up from Dead Men's Bones because of His Holy Namesake, He promised Abraham a continual seed on this earth, and He did it to Glorify His own name, but that glorification will not be over until Israel repents at the 1335 event (Two-witnesses) and until God destroys the wicked on this earth. So, the raising of Israel back up is a part of it and Israel coming back unto the Lord will be a part of it ( THINK ON A GRANDER SCALE) and Israel being protected by God Himself for 1260 days while plague after plague drops on the Gentle nations as Elijah and Moses (IMHO it is Moses, they were both at the transfiguration) prays down these plagues. So, a world wide TV Camera shows Moses doing a real time 10 Commandments style Judgments !! BOOM. That will glorify the name of God, the very God all of these atheist, homosexual loving trans loving, evil loving people hate and mock today. God will not be mocked !! He's about to judge and show them His Holy ways !!
Everything in Revelation past Rev, 4:1 is FUTUURE.
Everything in Revelation past Rev, 4:1 is FUTUURE.
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The destruction of Israel as a nation was prophesied and happened. The restoration of Israel as a nation was also prophesied and happened. The Jews are no longer God's chosen people as the distinction between Israel and Christians has been removed.
God's covenant was never meant to be with one nation exclusively. All the families of the world were to be blessed in Abraham's seed.
So why the nation of Israel now? It's testimony to the mighty power of God to do the impossible. Israel should not exist. There is no way that Israel could have defeated the 5 nations that attacked as soon as Israel declared independence. Except she did.
I read a fascinating book by the late Derek Prince. He was living in Jerusalem when Israel declared independence. His home was commandeered by Israeli forces. Mr Prince was ex British army (a medic) so had some knowledge of military issues. His reporting on the invasion and how it was repelled makes it clear that God stepped in to protect Israel.
I'm English by birth. The way the British treated Israel prior to independence was shameful. Britain trained some Arab forces to fight the Israelis. I am not surprised in the least that Britain lost it's empire and suffered decades of near financial ruin. God has not changed His ways and those who bless Israel will be blessed. The USA has benefited from supporting Israel. As the USA gradually turns away, (check out the lies and propaganda spread by NYT for example) so the US also will decline. Oh wait, it's already happening.
God is not mocked. His word always comes to pass. Israel is a physical reminder of God's power and God's faithfulness to His Word.
God's covenant was never meant to be with one nation exclusively. All the families of the world were to be blessed in Abraham's seed.
So why the nation of Israel now? It's testimony to the mighty power of God to do the impossible. Israel should not exist. There is no way that Israel could have defeated the 5 nations that attacked as soon as Israel declared independence. Except she did.
I read a fascinating book by the late Derek Prince. He was living in Jerusalem when Israel declared independence. His home was commandeered by Israeli forces. Mr Prince was ex British army (a medic) so had some knowledge of military issues. His reporting on the invasion and how it was repelled makes it clear that God stepped in to protect Israel.
I'm English by birth. The way the British treated Israel prior to independence was shameful. Britain trained some Arab forces to fight the Israelis. I am not surprised in the least that Britain lost it's empire and suffered decades of near financial ruin. God has not changed His ways and those who bless Israel will be blessed. The USA has benefited from supporting Israel. As the USA gradually turns away, (check out the lies and propaganda spread by NYT for example) so the US also will decline. Oh wait, it's already happening.
God is not mocked. His word always comes to pass. Israel is a physical reminder of God's power and God's faithfulness to His Word.
P
But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob, And He who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life. Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west; I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not keep them back!’ Bring My sons from afar, And My daughters from the ends of the earth— Everyone who is called by My name, Whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”
Give God the credit...USA could not have been with Israel except that God gave us so much. It appears about to end.
Should we withdraw support our lavish treatment of the past would evaporate in months.
Why else would God support our nation?...we have even put Him aside from our midst.
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I apologize for not responding until now I thought the thread would be passed over and forgotten. I suppose I agree somewhat with what your saying but that I see it in all three tenses. Why is from the way the angel words his explanation of the beast,,woman ect. in Rev. 17 in that he states that some had come,(past tense in that time),,one was present(present tense at the time Revelation was seen/given) and that the 7th,8th head, the ten kings and the beast in the pit but returning out of it future tense in aspect to the time the Revelation was seen/given. Thank you again for your response I think I will read along with the thread and see how the others view the subject of the OP. https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm
“Israel came into being on May 14th 1948, “
“In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Genesis 15:18-21 KJV
Isn’t that where israel was established ? Being that Jacob his grandson was named israel and then his family israels family went into Egypt 400 years and the. his led them to the promised land given to Abrahams seed? Which is when the promise came to pass when Joshua led them into the land of Israel
“In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”
Genesis 15:18-21 KJV
Isn’t that where israel was established ? Being that Jacob his grandson was named israel and then his family israels family went into Egypt 400 years and the. his led them to the promised land given to Abrahams seed? Which is when the promise came to pass when Joshua led them into the land of Israel
“God's plans will be effected by whatever means He chooses to use.”
he did choose already his plan is Christ and the gospel that’s how israels being restored through Christ and the gospel
but this is where Israelites are actually born
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27, 29 KJV
the issue is that Jerusalem is no longer on earth man curses the earth and Israel with it by breaking the covenant that warned them. There are two Jerusalem’s one on earth which will be destroyed with the earth .
and then there’s our promised land Gods true holy City and nation like abraham we aren’t looking to the earth formoir promise
This is true of all those who have faith in Christ
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
…For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13-14, 16 KJV
the place prepared for the true heavenly israel is here made for Those children born of Christ being abrahams true seed
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
Hebrews 12:22-24, 28 KJV
the restoration of Israel is only going to happen when they convert to Christianity like the nations have to there’s no other path of restoration.
This whole earth including the whole Middle East is reserved for the flames of judgement of the ungodly
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
2 Peter 3:7, 9-10
see if israel was going to be restored on this earth it’s going to be doomed. If he restores us through the gospel into the heavenly Jerusalem then this makes perfect sense
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
Revelation 21:1-4 KJV
israel is born in Christ alone of an Israelite rejects him they become as a gentile used to be under law excluded because they are rejecting the only salvation ever coming
he did choose already his plan is Christ and the gospel that’s how israels being restored through Christ and the gospel
but this is where Israelites are actually born
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27, 29 KJV
the issue is that Jerusalem is no longer on earth man curses the earth and Israel with it by breaking the covenant that warned them. There are two Jerusalem’s one on earth which will be destroyed with the earth .
and then there’s our promised land Gods true holy City and nation like abraham we aren’t looking to the earth formoir promise
This is true of all those who have faith in Christ
“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
…For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Hebrews 11:13-14, 16 KJV
the place prepared for the true heavenly israel is here made for Those children born of Christ being abrahams true seed
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
Hebrews 12:22-24, 28 KJV
the restoration of Israel is only going to happen when they convert to Christianity like the nations have to there’s no other path of restoration.
This whole earth including the whole Middle East is reserved for the flames of judgement of the ungodly
“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
2 Peter 3:7, 9-10
see if israel was going to be restored on this earth it’s going to be doomed. If he restores us through the gospel into the heavenly Jerusalem then this makes perfect sense
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
Revelation 21:1-4 KJV
israel is born in Christ alone of an Israelite rejects him they become as a gentile used to be under law excluded because they are rejecting the only salvation ever coming
Yes, at times we get a flashback after Rev. 4:1 BUT each passage is about the HEREAFTER. In Rev. 17 God s letting a Demon out of the Bottomless Pit (Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast). This HE WAS....Over Babylon, Persia Greece and Rome, then he was placed n the pit for nigh 2000 years...........UNTIL the 1st Woe in Rev. 9 where he will be RELEASED thus the whole HE WAS...............IS NOT (in the pit now)..............YET IS (still alive awaiting his future release) BUT the release is in the future, even though we get a flashback description of who he is.
In Rev. 12 we also get a Flashback of king Herod trying to kill baby Jesus via Satan the Dragons influence, however the Rev. 12 understanding is all pointing to THE WOMAN (Israel) fleeing at the 1290. (70th week).
In Rev. 12 we also get a Flashback of king Herod trying to kill baby Jesus via Satan the Dragons influence, however the Rev. 12 understanding is all pointing to THE WOMAN (Israel) fleeing at the 1290. (70th week).
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C
The true Israel is the (holy) nation and royal priesthood comprising people that have been made one in Christ Jesus. What more can God do, than He has already done through Jesus, to honour a people. Those whose spirits have been brought to life by God because they have accepted the gift from God of faith in Jesus, and that have gone on maintaining their loyalty to Him, are the true (spiritual) Israel, whether they be from a Jewish or gentile background. I just can’t see how referring back to the sovereignty of the old physical Israel of the Old Testament and Covenant era are of benefit to anyone, but are rather a distraction.
I as I explained in Post #54 see Revelation 17 as literal and not allegorical and so then see it in the three time-frames I explained. It would seem to me that if (Apollyon,the Scarlet Colored Beast in your post) is bound both in ad70 and now that Rome would not have had power to overpower Israel nor scatter their survivors after the three revolts nor would Hitler have had the same power during ww2 to do the things he did to them. The positions in eschatology who see an binding as having been implemented already/currently (Amill.Preterism) I suppose could see Revelation 17 as "an allegory" but to me it is literal.