The modern nation of Israel is not the biblical nation of Israel

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May 22, 2020
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#21
I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.

If you think nation of Israel just happened. You are wrong.
Israel came into being on May 14th 1948, by God's grace ...ONLY. They also have been allowed to exist as a nation to date by God's grace.
It is one of the greatest...if not the greatest ......miracles in modern times.
Study scriptures.
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#22
If you think nation of Israel just happened. You are wrong.
Israel came into being on May 14th 1948, by God's grace ...ONLY. They also have been allowed to exist as a nation to date by God's grace.
It is one of the greatest...if not the greatest ......miracles in modern times.
Study scriptures.
You’re too negative for me to give any attention to. So you lost me and any attempt at convincing. Here’s a big red down vote for your post like you gave mine.
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#23
God used pagan nations to scatter Israel as he prophesied.
So then he used a pagan organization to regather them. Just as he prophesied "in one day".
It was all done by the hand of the Lord.
To think this is a counterfeit Israel is insane.
Of course there is no high priest...there's no temple....yet.
Oh Israel has its troubles the same as the western world as the days grow darker, as her enemies approach the boarders. Redemption is near.
Stopped reading after the big red down vote you gave me. Not the way to attempt to convince people.
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#24
I am open-minded enough to admit I could be wrong. And genuinely interested to learn the truth about this topic, whatever it be. My heart is honestly seeking the truth.

Those of you attacking me personally, calling me an anti-semite, etc will be ignored. Go judge someone else.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
113
#25
I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.
God foretold it all along the earthly israel began like this with God

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because they continually rebelled and committed adultery with other Gods , they are seen here now

“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a summary of the ot narrative of Israel God chose then in thier sins and adorned them th precious garments named his people set them above all nations by choosing them delivered them time and time again and tbier response was to constantly reject God and create false gods and partake of other nations false diety worship

it’s where the image of a whore came from God seems israel that in the latter parts of the ot then deems them desolate and foretell Jerusalem’s destruction and the spreading of the gospel to all the nations.

Narrative Prophecies with the reasoning of why are in the ot many times like this

“Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

Then washed I thee with water; yea, I thoroughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil:

and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.

Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.

How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;

But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord: Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:1-2, 8-18, 26-33, 35-37, 39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Earthly Israel broke the covenant God made with them and defiled it all to God they became a a whorish wife who slept with all her neighbors and so he eventually brought the curses he warned three about to pass

but he’s creating a new israel through the gospel made of those from all nations that believe
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#26
God foretold it all along the earthly israel began like this with God

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because they continually rebelled and committed adultery with other Gods , they are seen here now

“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s a summary of the ot narrative of Israel God chose then in thier sins and adorned them th precious garments named his people set them above all nations by choosing them delivered them time and time again and tbier response was to constantly reject God and create false gods and partake of other nations false diety worship

it’s where the image of a whore came from God seems israel that in the latter parts of the ot then deems them desolate and foretell Jerusalem’s destruction and the spreading of the gospel to all the nations.

Narrative Prophecies with the reasoning of why are in the ot many times like this

“Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

Then washed I thee with water; yea, I thoroughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil:

and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.

Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.

How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;

But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord: Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16:1-2, 8-18, 26-33, 35-37, 39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Earthly Israel broke the covenant God made with them and defiled it all to God they became a a whorish wife who slept with all her neighbors and so he eventually brought the curses he warned three about to pass

but he’s creating a new israel through the gospel made of those from all nations that believe
Do you believe that this is thru the UN creating Israel in 1948?
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,375
1,081
113
#27
Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to call me an anti-Semite. You guys never bother to have actual arguments.
To be fair, he didn't call you an anti-semite. He's just saying that anti-semites use replacement theology to justify anti-semitism.... which they do.
I think most christians would agree that the nation of Israel is no longer God's covenant people. But, I think it's presumptuous to simply state that the current nation of Israel is not the Israel of the bible. To many people, it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck- so, if you're going to argue that it's not a duck you will have to be very persuasive.

Personally, I don't thing the UN, early on, was the beast it is becoming today. The realities of WWII had people afraid- and rightly so. People started to realize that humanity had the potential to wipe itself out. Even as someone who trusts God- I don't think he necessarily promises not to let us at least nuke ourselves back to the stone age. That idea bothers people, and to an extent, maybe it should. I think when the Israelis repelled the Arab invasion, that was the seal of their nationhood.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
#28
I am open-minded enough to admit I could be wrong. And genuinely interested to learn the truth about this topic, whatever it be. My heart is honestly seeking the truth.

Those of you attacking me personally, calling me an anti-semite, etc will be ignored. Go judge someone else.


It's smart to examine this because sort of like the chicken and the egg either God will raise up Israel and the beast will rise afterwards or the beast will rise first. Now does God raise up Israel and then the beast rise or the other way around? If the beast rises first and blasphemes Gods Holy name(calls it's self Israel) and people align themselves with it we know what Scripture says will happen to them. On the other hand If this Israel is of God,the apple of his eye those against it then they are in the same danger.
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#29
To be fair, he didn't call you an anti-semite. He's just saying that anti-semites use replacement theology to justify anti-semitism.... which they do.
I think most christians would agree that the nation of Israel is no longer God's covenant people. But, I think it's presumptuous to simply state that the current nation of Israel is not the Israel of the bible. To many people, it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck- so, if you're going to argue that it's not a duck you will have to be very persuasive.

Personally, I don't thing the UN, early on, was the beast it is becoming today. The realities of WWII had people afraid- and rightly so. People started to realize that humanity had the potential to wipe itself out. Even as someone who trusts God- I don't think he necessarily promises not to let us at least nuke ourselves back to the stone age. That idea bothers people, and to an extent, maybe it should. I think when the Israelis repelled the Arab invasion, that was the seal of their nationhood.
I’ve lived long enough to recognize a veiled insult when I see one. He had a reason for mentioning anti-Semite and he accomplished it. Words have meaning and so do their uses.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#30
I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.
oh my

guess Iran has the right idea then :rolleyes:

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? shall a nation be brought forth at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isaiah

who indeed it would seem :unsure:
 
K

KrisWampler

Guest
#31
oh my

guess Iran has the right idea then :rolleyes:

Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall a land be born in one day? shall a nation be brought forth at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. Isaiah

who indeed it would seem :unsure:
Thanks, you’ll be ignored from here on out as you have nothing of substance to offer. Only insults. Bye now.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
113
#32
Do you believe that this is thru the UN creating Israel in 1948?
huh ? No I believe Jerusalem was destroyed in ad 67-70 with its temple and the gospel was then sent out to all people beginning at Jerusalem.

Gods holy city is not on earth

“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two Jerusalem’s one on earth and one in heaven each has a covenant that corresponds

“For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


to see the gospel and New Testament we have to do this we have to look into the new Jerusalem that only Gods word tells us about

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Everything earthly is doomed

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

every earthly city is going to be done away every human body done away ll our works gone but he has a new creation for us that no one has ever seen because it only exists in christs promise

“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Earthly thkngs are done for we have to look into the new testament now me lift our eyes into the promises made of faith and not sight

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

to answer your question no I don’t think what happened in 48 has anything to do with what I was saying I’m not looking for an earthly restoration of Israel but a heavenly restoration of all creation
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
#33
Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to call me an anti-Semite. You guys never bother to have actual arguments.
Kinda hard to have a discussion, or argument as you say, with dudes that allegorize vast chunks of Scripture to fit their narrative.
 
Dec 29, 2021
1,317
314
83
#34
Do you believe that this is thru the UN creating Israel in 1948?
It was more because of the influence through the United States Government. And it echoes the same sentiment when Donald Trump moved the U.S. Embassy and acknowledged Jerusalem as rightful Capitol according to the same prophecy concerning the ancient king Cyrus and now is memorized on a shekel coin. Just like the State of Israel came back into existence in [One Day], the City of Jerusalem became Capitol in [One Day]!
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,388
5,729
113
#35
I’m confused as to why so many evangelicals adore the modern nation state known as Israel. This is not the same Israel of the Bible.

The modern nation known as Israel was created by the United Nations, a satanic and anti-biblical supranational organization. The ancient nation of Israel was specially created and ordained by God.

Now some may object that God used the UN to create Israel. But He already created Israel. Why would He need to again? If anything, the OT prophets repeatedly promised destruction of Israel, which was carried out with the Babylonian exile. There’s no indication that any sort of restoration would be through a godless wanna-be world government.

That fact alone should dispense with the notion that modern Israel bears any resemblance to the Israel of the Bible. But also consider the depravity of the modern state. For instance, it recognizes same-sex marriages performed outside the country. Tel Aviv is proud to be a “gay friendly” city. Pretty sure the Israel of the OT would frown upon that.

Modern Israel is a counterfeit of the biblical Israel in every way.

What is worthy about joining the world and a host of terrorist groups to accuse Israel? God will be her judge.
Don't expect Christian nations to escape the same judgement if they oppose his plans.

The UN of today is much changed from the UN of 1948.
The UN had 51 member states at it's commencement in 1945. Today there are 193 and they have become notoriously
biased against Israel. If they are Satanic, their open contempt for Israel must be Satanic. Why join them?

Example, The UN General Assembly adopted 17 resolutions against Israel in 2020 compared with six
for the rest of the world.

Source:
https://unwatch.org/unga-condemned-israel-twice-today-for-2020-total-of-17-rest-of-world-5/


Many Christian majority nations support same-sex marriages. Accusing Israel on that matter is
sheer hypocrisy and arrogance.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#36
Thanks, you’ll be ignored from here on out as you have nothing of substance to offer. Only insults. Bye now.
well, you don't have the ability to rebuke what God said

that is your actual problem. not me
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#37
Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to call me an anti-Semite. You guys never bother to have actual arguments.
The actual argument is quite simple. Modern Israel is located on a small portion of former Israel and a very small portion of future "greater Israel". The location of Jerusalem has not changed. Therefore Jerusalem and the nation of Israel (the twelve tribes of Jacob) will be redeemed and restored by God and Christ at this exact location.

And the UN simply rubber-stamped what was already a reality through the British government, since Palestine was a British protectorate, and the Zionists had convinced Britain to set up a homeland for them.

Christians are not to look at modern Israel -- WHICH REJECTS CHRIST -- as future Israel. The "time of Jacob's trouble" is coming and God will sift the Jews worldwide so that only one-third of them will actually be saved after the Second Coming of Christ. In the meantime God sees all Jews and Gentiles as the unbelieving mass of humanity which needs to repent and be converted.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#38
I am open-minded enough to admit I could be wrong. And genuinely interested to learn the truth about this topic, whatever it be. My heart is honestly seeking the truth.

Those of you attacking me personally, calling me an anti-semite, etc will be ignored. Go judge someone else.
oh boy

the irony
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#39
Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to call me an anti-Semite. You guys never bother to have actual arguments.
no one called you an anti-semite

you guys love to offer reasoning based on non comprehension of the biblical texts
 
Feb 21, 2016
854
196
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#40
I too have trouble believing that the modern state is related in any way to ancient Israel. God restored Judah and Benjamin to their land after the Babylonian exile, but the other ten tribes didn’t return en masse. Further, God ended ancient Israel thoroughly in 70 AD after they rejected His Messiah.

While there are significant evangelistic efforts in modern Israel, they mostly reject Jesus as well. There are also lingering questions about the lineage of those now claiming to be Jews.
I feel the same way.Honestly don't have enough understanding on the subject.