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I'm more careful when it comes to judging God things I don't understand. I don't know why He does some of the things He does, but He does. And since He's God...
TONGUES is a precious gift from God
- Thread starter Lafftur
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Splitting hairs. In 1 Corinthians 12 it says that the gifts are for the common good. Also, in 1 Corinthians 14, it says that prophecy edifies the church. This is similar to Paul saying in Ephesians that the ministries also build up the body of Christ. Tongues build up the individual believer in his most holy faith and spiritually strengthens him so that he will be in a better place to contribute to the general building up of the church through his particular ministry.
If you are not an ordained pastor then so be it. Nevertheless you call yourself a Minister and assert that your calling is recognised. So whether you are a Pastor or another minister in name or nature - I can hardly see where the fault lies.
As to what @Aidan1 said which you responded to - he spoke about an historical fact of Pentecostalism and set his comment into that frame of reference by dating his origination to 1901 - in rather the same way I followed that meaning to comment on your response to him and qualified my comment by referencing the predicative meaning of the day of Pentecost.
It must be self evident that what was being said was not predicated on a biblical claim but rather a claim to the claim of the pentecostal movement itself. Is is not possible to recognise your own misleading claims when you choose to deflect what someone has said and instead give them either a rebuke or else in my case a lecture in theology?
@Aidan1 is free to make his own case regardless to his clear cessationist position. When he does he should not be brought in disrepute inferentially or even stated clearly. It is simply the wrong way Tod discuss anything at all. I have read his posts and I am certain he knows that I am not a cessationist and yet we are not in contention.
So when you tell me that you would love for me to tell you what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for - when you ground your meaning in Scripture and it is self evident from the Scripture that the apostles were in need of power and not life - then I am hardly likely to disagree. But the brother wasn't making that point which you felt it necessary to rebuke - he was simply stating an historical fact that the pentecostal movement has utilised the term Baptism of the Holy Spirit to signal its secondary blessing criteria and the gifts of the Holy Spirit - especially the sign gifts to represent its evidence. To say that is NOT to agree with it - it is either a truth or else a lie. The Baptism of the Holy Sprit with the sight gift of tongues was expressly a Pentecostal Church claim and it was held to publicly and openly until very recently.
What is the "modern use of the gift of tongues?" Where did it start? Who started it? What do we know about these people? Why should we trust them? What other things did they believe and teach? What fruit did their lives bear?
It just shows that the Holy Spirit works in ways we cannot fathom to show that He is present and does things for a particular reason, even if it is just to make us a fool for Christ! Pride is a killer, and when the Holy Spirit does something to wreck it, He is doing us a favour!
One event that showed me that the Holy Spirit does unusual things for reasons He only knows, is when I was praying for people at an altar call, and I put my hand on a lady's shoulder and suddenly she wasn't there! I looked down and saw that she had fallen to the floor. The hilarious thing about it was that I didn't believe in people falling in the Spirit and was basically opposed to it at the time! I think that the Holy Spirit has a sense of humour, and does things to put a spanner in our theology at times!
Google is a great resource to find things out. It gives all the answers you are looking for.
There is one prominent reason for the gifts of the Holy Spirit which Jesus is the one who said.
in Acts 1:8 "You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you and you shall be my witnesses"
Jesus spoke these last words before being taken up. Why was the power for? to be a witness. What were they witnessing about The Lord Jesus Christ who was not Dead but alive. The empowering confirmed their witness of Christ as not being dead HE was and is alive.
This is why the gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased. Acts chapter 4:33 says:
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
The Holy Spirit confirmed the word of God with signs and wonders. That has not stopped because we have a completed Bible.
This is a Christian site, with Christian forums, with Christian threads, and this whole site is built upon like minded people. Christians are one of the most argumentative people ever, because each and everyone of them believe so passionately that what they believe about God is the right thing and the ONLY right thing. Even if there was a forum for arguing (which there never will be because of the message it will portray. Instead people will simply argue in secret) these people would still argue. It’s in their nature, and they can never admit when they’re wrong. Not to say I’m perfect I don’t want it to seem like I am saying that or that I think that. Im just tried of the constant jibber jabber.
That is true, I don’t really think I said anything super offensive but I think that I should take the post down. What I said has kind of been a build up from argumentative Christian’s I’ve meet in the past (although there are some argumentative ones here too) and that was hypocritical of me to say because Im pretty much an advocate of not letting past experiences make you generalize and say things like I said. I didn’t really generalize, but you know what I mean.
you were honest in your opinion. I do say this often and I don't see many who do , I can be wrong
I think there is a difference between fair debate and argumentation. It is the difference between kicking the ball and kicking the player. The clue for argumentative posts is the use of "you" comments where attempts to discredit the person rather than debating the issues.
I have had very stimulating and respectful debates with brothers in Christ who are Cessationist and totally opposed to tongues in today's churches. We have always ended in stalemate, but each of us has given us a run for our respective monies. But we have remained brothers in Christ who worship and love the same Lord.
Actually , these forums would be boring if we all agreed with one another. My comment for thin-skinned members, if they can't stand the heat, keep out of the kitchen!
Yes I agree with you, I was talking about times where one party would take jabs at another. That isn’t “heat”. If you’re always throwing knifes, a kitchen is the last place you should be. You should be in a padded room.
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I have no problem with respect. Tongues is a precious thing to me and I do not appreciate it being wrote off as being demonic.
But then again, perhaps I'm being careless with my pearls.
But then again, perhaps I'm being careless with my pearls.
I already know the answers; I'm just wondering if you know. You say we should give tongue-talkers the benefit of the doubt; but what do you actually know about the origins of the modern tongue movement? I can tell you with 100% certainty that it wasn't a spontaneous move of the Spirit.