The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[Heaven_Bound]

Postrib rapture doctrine origin is the early church.
They thought they were in the gt.

So your doctrine is corrupt.
You guys quote the church fathers that were confused.

Comical how you guys BASE YOUR DOCTRINE on men....then virtue signal the daylights out of calling us names.

Comical classic irony.
Too funny

Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!

 

[Absolutely]

The word "DOCTRINE" is a biblical word:

"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine " - 1 Timothy 1:10


[see its numerous occurrences... some of them referring to POSITIVE / RIGHTEOUS things, depending on CONTEXT] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=doctrine&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

He did that before.
Not knowing "doctrine" just references one position.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

The word "DOCTRINE" is a biblical word:

"For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine " - 1 Timothy 1:10


[see its numerous occurrences... some of them referring to POSITIVE / RIGHTEOUS things, depending on CONTEXT] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=doctrine&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

Never said Doctrine was not in the Bible and it refers to the Gospel of Christ, not the man made Doctrines within past 500 years.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

These Verses in another Thread were used by the same Posters as Pre-Trib evidence.
I am glad that View has changed!
My Apologies and Thank God those Views have changed towards those Verses.

It's very apparent to me that you are merely "skimming" rather than "reading to grasp understanding" the flow of convo (even if you ultimately come to DISAGREE with a certain point a poster is making).

I would just like to exhort you to not immediately "jump to conclusions" about what an individual is saying, but to slow down, READ CAREFULLY, in order to seek the actual INTENDED MEANING of any given post / member's writings.

 

[Absolutely]

Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!

Ok so we are bad.

Now answer the dynamic of where you guys base your deal.

Dont deflect. We know what you presume about us.

Just show us honestly the bases of your deal.
Was it the church fathers?

 

[Heaven_Bound]

It's very apparent to me that you are merely "skimming" rather than "reading to grasp understanding" the flow of convo (even if you ultimately come to DISAGREE with a certain point a poster is making).

I would just like to exhort you to not immediately "jump to conclusions" about what an individual is saying, but to slow down, READ CAREFULLY, in order to seek the actual INTENDED MEANING of any given post / member's writings.

You may view as you like, but i have already had this discussion with these posters and then those Verses were used for as I claimed.

 

[Absolutely]

Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!

And yet you have no verses of a postrib rapture.
Zero

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

you've fallen for that fable = I ...that it originated in the 1800s... with Darby...

(...which, by the way, HAS been addressed numerous times in past threads--I encourage you to check some of those out. )

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Ok so we are bad.

Now answer the dynamic of where you guys base your deal.

Dont deflect. We know what you presume about us.

Just show us honestly the bases of your deal.
Was it the church fathers?

I don't base anything on what you think.
Each Verse you use, when I read the Verses prior proves what the Author is really discussing. It's Evident you pick this Verse here, that Verse there, and then put them together and make a claim.

But when you read the Verses in Context, they do not mean as you claim.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You may view as you like, but i have already had this discussion with these posters and then those Verses were used for as I claimed.

Well, I'd be interested in being directed to such posts, so I can see for myself whether this is indeed the case, as you say.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

And yet you have no verses of a postrib rapture.
Zero

When Tribulation ENDS, the Son of Man returns = Words of Christ, Matthew 24

All we need because it is the very Word of God!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Well, I'd be interested in being directed to such posts, so I can see for myself whether this is indeed the case, as you say.

Then go Research!
Have Fun!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When Tribulation ENDS, the Son of Man returns = Words of Christ, Matthew 24

All we need because it is the very Word of God!

ALL viewpoints (participating in this thread) AGREE that He "RETURNS" to the earth at that point / in those verses.





[ALL "Son of man cometh / coming of / shall come / comes / etc" speak of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH designation, FOR The promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (i.e. His "RETURN" to the earth--Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 ['when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"] and its parallel; Lk19:12,15,17,19 and its parallel)--no one in this thread, that I am aware of, disagrees with that point!]

 

[Absolutely]

Then it should be easy to find that Teaching for the past 1800's years BEFORE Darby.

And guess what, YOU CANNOT FIND THAT TEACHING ANYWHERE!

This is a new Doctrine less than 200 years and was Addressed by a Church Father who said the Pre-Trib Idealism is False, and that ELECT'S LAST VICTORY WILL BE SURVIVING TRIBULATION!

You are one of the few that did not get the memo.
Why do you think nobody defends your assumptions of the erroneous claims of your workbook?

Because we THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED the false lies about pretrib rapture only being 200 yrs old.

Those liars were shut down with truth.

Most of your teachers no longer use that fairy tale.

But go ahead and lie about it.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

ALL viewpoints (participating in this thread) AGREE that He "RETURNS" to the earth at that point / in those verses.

And He does not return sooner or HE would have said so!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And He does not return sooner or HE would have said so!

He only "RETURNS" ONCE!! (that is, TO THE EARTH):


--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallel] "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347; and its occurrences elsewhere, referring to the EARTHLY MK age, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth]


--Luke 19:12,15,17,19 [and its parallel] - "RETURN"... when He will DEAL out responsibilities having to do with "have thou authority over TEN CITIES"... "be thou likewise over FIVE CITIES" ("cities" are ON THE EARTH)



Neither of these passages ^ (nor their parallel passages I point out, not shown here) refer to "our RAPTURE" point in time. NONE OF THEM! [Study these passages out!]



____________


the "pre-trib" viewpoint does NOT suggest He "RETURNS" twice

 

[Heaven_Bound]

You are one of the few that did not get the memo.
Why do you think nobody defends your assumptions of the erroneous claims of your workbook?

Because we THOROUGHLY DEBUNKED the false lies about pretrib rapture only being 200 yrs old.

Those liars were shut down with truth.

Most of your teachers no longer use that fairy tale.

But go ahead and lie about it.

The Last Sentence of Ireneaus Against Heresies: [First Paragraph]
Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

What is Matthew 24:21?

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The Last Sentence of Ireneaus Against Heresies: [First Paragraph]
Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
What is Matthew 24:21?
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Every "pre-tribber" participating (actively) in this thread believes there WILL INDEED be those who come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]".



Scripture calls those "THE RIGHTEOUS" (Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50; and Matthew 25:31-34 and its wider context, esp v.46, for a couple passages I can think of off the top of my head)... and it is in this sense that I believe Irenaeus uses that term, in his quote. (IOW, when he says "when the CHURCH is..." THEN there will be "the last contest OF THE RIGHTEOUS"... he is not EQUATING the two [bold/underlined], but distinguishes these [into/within their own distinct time-frames (see also Dan12:3b)], just as Scripture itself does.)

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Every "pre-tribber" paricipating (actively) in this thread believes there WILL INDEED be those who come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]".



Scripture calls those "THE RIGHTEOUS" (Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50; and Matthew 25:31-34 and its wider context, esp v.46, for a couple passages I can think of off the top of my head)... and it is in this sense that I believe Irenaeus uses that term, in his quote. (IOW, when he says "when the CHURCH is..." THEN there will be the "last contest OF THE RIGHTEOUS"... he is not EQUATING the two [bold/underlined], but distinguishes these [into/within their own distinct time-frames], just as Scripture itself does.)

I believe that as well, because we will still be Witnesses for God!

 

[cv5]

The Last Sentence of Ireneaus Against Heresies: [First Paragraph]
Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

What is Matthew 24:21?

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

If you can find the biblical term "Church" or "Bride" anywhere between Rev 6 thru 18....let us know.