Does God choose your spouse or do you with God's guidance?

[presidente]

Ummmm....
Actually Adam used Eve as a guinea pig. He was right there with her watching to see if she died or not.

Where does it say that?

Genesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

[JohnDB]

Where does it say that?

Genesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Its in the metaphoric language of Hebrew... Adam was right there with her the whole time. She led the actions but he wanted it too. And he was going to watch her to see if she died first before he ate.

A lot of nuances don't translate well when dealing with metaphoric languages and English often has nothing equivalent...it's the poorest receptor language of the scriptures.

 

[presidente]

I am noticing an attitude among those who believe that God is responsible for our love life's.

As if we don't get a choice in who we love or not. God either makes us love someone or not.

Or that we will find a spouse irresistible...and therefore not responsible for loving them.

That's kinda nuts. Just saying....

God can answer prayer, direct, etc. when it comes to marriage as He does for other things in life.

A 13-year-old boy I went to Christian school said something like 'If God doesn't want me to go with her, why is he giving me these feelings?" as if God were responsible for his feelings. Boys and girls usually get those feelings from looking at each other and thinking about each other, IMO. I did not know enough when I was 13 myself to respond well to his question.

There was a preacher who was asked what he would do if he found that he no longer loved his wife. He said he'd get down on his knees and pray and repent until he did.

Some American's ideas of what it means to be 'in love' and the importance of these feelings are out of whack. Our marriages and relationships should not rest on some of these feelings. We are supposed to love our neighbors, too, but we do not get bent out of shape if they don't give us an emotional high and make it where it is hard to eat dinner because of the butterflies in the stomach.

 

[presidente]

Its in the metaphoric language of Hebrew... Adam was right there with her the whole time. She led the actions but he wanted it too. And he was going to watch her to see if she died first before he ate.

A lot of nuances don't translate well when dealing with metaphoric languages and English often has nothing equivalent...it's the poorest receptor language of the scriptures.

Maybe you could share which words they are, or at least how they translate into English. This sounds more like a theory about what happened.

 

[JohnDB]

Maybe you could share which words they are, or at least how they translate into English. This sounds more like a theory about what happened.

It's complicated and I'd have to pull out a bunch of reference books to demonstrate the language and the nuances of Hebrew word multiple definitions, grammar, and etc.

It's a whole research paper in length and extremely dry reading...it's almost equally dry typing it all out.

Most people just skip over it. Nobody wants to read all that on a forum post. The few who do want to really know can get an exegetical commentary that can help explain why what was written the way it was written. Focusing on the mechanics instead of theological positions. Then it's really clear. But it's extremely dry reading and really boring.

Or...

You can see that the things I'm saying are true by the way God reacted to both Adam and Eve and how Adam and Eve reacted to each other.

BTW "Eve's" name really wasn't "Eve". It was "Hawwa". Eve is Latin. Hawwa is Hebrew. Both having similar meanings of "mother of all living".

Just as a juicy tidbit of info.

 

[Lanolin]

That is an extreme view. Do you even allow for some sovereign activity behind the scenes?

An angel spoke to Joseph in a dream to take Mary as his wife. Abraham prayed that God would send an angel before his servant. Rebecca married Isaac after Abraham's servant prayed a very detailed and specific prayer and it was answered and her family recognized that the LORD was at work.

what about Leah and Rachel...Laban said to Jacob he had to marry Leah first.

Jacob didnt love Leah he loved Rachel.

Poor Leah wasnt loved, or loved as much as Rachel but she really had no choice in the matter. However it was Leahs line that lead to Jesus

 

[Lanolin]

Since Eve was created out of Adams rib, I dont suppose she was being 'given away' from her Father lol
Plus she had no choice in the matter either.

I dont even get to choose whoever may be attracted to me. But I can choose whether to love them or not.
Attraction and love are not always the same.

 

[presidente]

what about Leah and Rachel...Laban said to Jacob he had to marry Leah first.

Jacob didnt love Leah he loved Rachel.

Poor Leah wasnt loved, or loved as much as Rachel but she really had no choice in the matter. However it was Leahs line that lead to Jesus

Laban told Jacob that after the wedding.

 

[JohnDB]

Laban told Jacob that after the wedding.

Yeah Jacob got conned.

Kinda fitting I suppose. Leah gave him many many more kids than his favorite. But oh well. Some never really understand what side of the bread the butter is on either.

Also who stole the teraphim? (Usually said as household gods)...they actually were the deeds to Laban's property.

 

[presidente]

Since Eve was created out of Adams rib, I dont suppose she was being 'given away' from her Father lol

I don't see being made from a rib and being given in marriage as mutually exclusive. She might have been very willing. If she were just created and had no life experience or frame of reference to use as a basis to object, and there were no other viable choices for a partner, she might have been quite eager.

He probably smelled better than the lions and monkeys, too.

 

[presidente]

It's complicated and I'd have to pull out a bunch of reference books to demonstrate the language and the nuances of Hebrew word multiple definitions, grammar, and etc.

It's a whole research paper in length and extremely dry reading...it's almost equally dry typing it all out.

Most people just skip over it. Nobody wants to read all that on a forum post. The few who do want to really know can get an exegetical commentary that can help explain why what was written the way it was written. Focusing on the mechanics instead of theological positions. Then it's really clear. But it's extremely dry reading and really boring.

Or...

You can see that the things I'm saying are true by the way God reacted to both Adam and Eve and how Adam and Eve reacted to each other.

BTW "Eve's" name really wasn't "Eve". It was "Hawwa". Eve is Latin. Hawwa is Hebrew. Both having similar meanings of "mother of all living".

Just as a juicy tidbit of info.

I heard 'Chava' with a throaty sound a bit like a Greek chi/xi sound. But that was pronounced with an Ashkenazi waw. I am inclined to think it was originally a 'w' sound anyway. I'm not sure where you get the double w.

In Indonesian, they say Hawa for Eve, presumably derived from the Arabic pronunciation. 'Hawa nafsu' is a phrase meaning 'lust'. I always wondered how 'hawa' got in that phrase.

 

[presidente]

It's complicated and I'd have to pull out a bunch of reference books to demonstrate the language and the nuances of Hebrew word multiple definitions, grammar, and etc.

It's a whole research paper in length and extremely dry reading...it's almost equally dry typing it all out.

Most people just skip over it. Nobody wants to read all that on a forum post. The few who do want to really know can get an exegetical commentary that can help explain why what was written the way it was written. Focusing on the mechanics instead of theological positions. Then it's really clear. But it's extremely dry reading and really boring.

How about if you just share with us the words in the KJV that are interpreted to mean that or the Hebrew words and verse reference. I don't see where one could get that from the Genesis account, not the part I mentioned.

 

[JohnDB]

How about if you just share with us the words in the KJV that are interpreted to mean that or the Hebrew words and verse reference. I don't see where one could get that from the Genesis account, not the part I mentioned.

Asked and answered already.

 

[presidente]

Asked and answered already.

I read the 'dodge' response.

 

[JohnDB]

I read the 'dodge' response.

If you want to believe that women are the source of all evil be my guest...

I don't...and I explained how they aren't. You can choose to believe or not. But what I explained is most certainly plausible for an English reader.
If you read Hebrew then you would know. And I don't have the patience or wherewithal to be a Hebrew instructor. So guess what?

 

[JStates]

If you want to believe that women are the source of all evil be my guest...

I don't...and I explained how they aren't. You can choose to believe or not. But what I explained is most certainly plausible for an English reader.
If you read Hebrew then you would know. And I don't have the patience or wherewithal to be a Hebrew instructor. So guess what?

I don't think most Christians believe that. The Bible is clear that Eve was deceived but Adam willfully chose to sin. That's why Adam gets blamed in the Scriptures for causing the Fall, not Eve.

And some of us here have the tools and ability to read/study Hebrew well enough.

שלום

 

[JohnDB]

I don't think most Christians believe that. The Bible is clear that Eve was deceived but Adam willfully chose to sin. That's why Adam gets blamed in the Scriptures for causing the Fall, not Eve.

And some of us here have the tools and ability to read/study Hebrew well enough.

שלום

There has been entire encyclopedia sized sets of individual commentaries written on the first three chapters of Genesis.

I myself did a year long study of the book. It was pretty exhausting.

I always started with an inductive study and then a Hebrew exegetical study.

There's a LOT there in those first three chapters. An extremely complicated and compact form of writing was used to convey a lot of things in a very short amount of writing. And considering the anthropology of that day in time...an absolute masterpiece of writing skill...one without equal today.

The poetry alone is highly skilful...but the volume of lessons that accompany it are even moreso.

I urge anyone with the wherewithal to actually do like I did to do so themselves. Getting a "cheat sheet" of someone else's cliff notes is not helpful.

 

[Lanolin]

Yeah Jacob got conned.

Kinda fitting I suppose. Leah gave him many many more kids than his favorite. But oh well. Some never really understand what side of the bread the butter is on either.

Also who stole the teraphim? (Usually said as household gods)...they actually were the deeds to Laban's property.

I always wonder how he did not even know it was Leah till after the wedding. Or did they just marry each oher without seeing each other first. Is that the reason for the veil. or it was so dark he couldnt see?

 

[Lanolin]

Do many dads give away their two daughters to the same guy? Two for the price of one deal or what.

I wonder if they just want to get rid of them sometimes. You know, extra mouth to feed and all that. In many cultures daughters are not valued. Its the sons that are favoured.

 

[JohnDB]

I always wonder how he did not even know it was Leah till after the wedding. Or did they just marry each oher without seeing each other first. Is that the reason for the veil. or it was so dark he couldnt see?

ANE anthropology is definitely different than today...and we tend to think of their current practices as restrictive.

But obviously Leah was veiled and likely Jacob a bit tipsy from the wedding party.
But the next morning would have been way too late to do anything about it. At the wedding party the night before...that would have been the time.
And where was Rachel during all of this? Jacob's personal attendants? Obviously they weren't exactly where they should have been.... obviously didn't say anything to Jacob until it was too late.
Jacob knew better but didn't do better.