The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
Oh, that's rich. Just change the subject when the subject gets a little, you know, uncomfortable.
Your irrelevant comments are really bizarre.
How about this? Nowehre does the Bible say Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
Or prove me wrong. With that primo verse that you think you have.
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
Oh, that's rich. Just change the subject when the subject gets a little, you know, uncomfortable.
Your irrelevant comments are really bizarre.
How about this? Nowehre does the Bible say Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
Or prove me wrong. With that primo verse that you think you have.
FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
The joke's on you. Thinking that there are ANY verses saying what you keep claiming. All without any verse to prove it.
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
The joke's on you. Thinking that there are ANY verses saying what you keep claiming. All without any verse to prove it.
Yes I can see where you're coming from Abs. But I think there are problems with that view.
"until the day that Noe entered into the ark" (Noah is in the ark, door is shut).
v. 40.....THEN SHALL....etc......tribulation has already begun.
Another problem is that when Jesus talks about His "coming" or "cometh", He is invariably speaking to the Second Coming after the tribulation. Never the rapture.
"until the day that Noe entered into the ark" (Noah is in the ark, door is shut).
v. 40.....THEN SHALL....etc......tribulation has already begun.
Another problem is that when Jesus talks about His "coming" or "cometh", He is invariably speaking to the Second Coming after the tribulation. Never the rapture.
Here is some good info from TDW. Hopefully it will help you sort this out.....
https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4641930/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4499209/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/
""FIRST resurrection" speaks to "unto resurrection OF LIFE" (in contrast to "unto resurrection OF JUDGMENT/DAMNATION), Jn5:29.
However, we can see clearly that the "2W" will be resurrected [which means 'TO STAND AGAIN' after having died] at the "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" events, at a time-slot completely DISTINCT from when ALL OTHERS will be "resurrected"... and they clearly "ascended up into Heaven" in that text. People try to reason this away, just so they can cling to the idea that Rev20:5-6 is saying (instead) "this is the FIRST TIME anyone will be resurrected" (not. The "2W" clearly will have been, PRIOR to this point in the chronology... They are a part of "unto resurrection OF LIFE," rather than the other)
--Rev20:6 - "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART in the resurrection, the first"
--1Cor15:23 - "[re: resurrection] But EACH [<--a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER [/RANK]" (giving indication there doesn't remain only ONE, at ONE point-in-time [and though I do agree the timing-issues relate in some measure to the various "harvests," I see it somewhat differently to that of how Neh6 explains it, in his Post #23, above mine--But YES, definitely MORE THAN ONE harvest, in nature and in scripture
])"
https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4641930/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4499209/
https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/
""FIRST resurrection" speaks to "unto resurrection OF LIFE" (in contrast to "unto resurrection OF JUDGMENT/DAMNATION), Jn5:29.
However, we can see clearly that the "2W" will be resurrected [which means 'TO STAND AGAIN' after having died] at the "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" events, at a time-slot completely DISTINCT from when ALL OTHERS will be "resurrected"... and they clearly "ascended up into Heaven" in that text. People try to reason this away, just so they can cling to the idea that Rev20:5-6 is saying (instead) "this is the FIRST TIME anyone will be resurrected" (not. The "2W" clearly will have been, PRIOR to this point in the chronology... They are a part of "unto resurrection OF LIFE," rather than the other)
--Rev20:6 - "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART in the resurrection, the first"
--1Cor15:23 - "[re: resurrection] But EACH [<--a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER [/RANK]" (giving indication there doesn't remain only ONE, at ONE point-in-time [and though I do agree the timing-issues relate in some measure to the various "harvests," I see it somewhat differently to that of how Neh6 explains it, in his Post #23, above mine--But YES, definitely MORE THAN ONE harvest, in nature and in scripture
])"
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Yes Jesus frames noah pretrib.
He is a prejudgment dynamic.
So the one taken / left is in that timeframe as well as the 10 virgins. Jesus framed it like that.
But to say everywhere we are told to watch, wait, and be ready is actually after the trib, then Jesus has either a very small or no audience at all since the bible says all take the mark or die.
I can not figure you guys believing that.
He is a prejudgment dynamic.
So the one taken / left is in that timeframe as well as the 10 virgins. Jesus framed it like that.
But to say everywhere we are told to watch, wait, and be ready is actually after the trib, then Jesus has either a very small or no audience at all since the bible says all take the mark or die.
I can not figure you guys believing that.
That's highly plausible.
Pre-tribbers are expecting God to come first before the anti-Christ. That means when the anti-Christ shows up giving out his mark on peoples' foreheads, the pre-tribbers will be expecting this: Revelation 22:4 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
I speculate that pre-tribbers would be showing up in droves to take what they believe in the name of God on their forehead. For the rest of us who reject this mark on the forehead, from the perspective of the pre-tribbers, what does that make us? Real genuine Christians who reject the mark of the beast would be viewed as the enemy, utterly sinful, and unrepentant by lost and confused pre-tribbers.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
It's entirely possible, in order to fulfill the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 16-8, pre-tribbers could take commands from the anti-Christ, who they believe to be Jesus come to establish His millennial kingdom, to take vengeance on those who rejected the mark of the beast on their forehead. Again, from their perspective, they could be viewing us as those who "know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..."
Think it's far-fetched that the persecution Christians will endure in the great tribulation could be from pre-tribbers? It's not.
Pre-tribbers are expecting God to come first before the anti-Christ. That means when the anti-Christ shows up giving out his mark on peoples' foreheads, the pre-tribbers will be expecting this: Revelation 22:4 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
I speculate that pre-tribbers would be showing up in droves to take what they believe in the name of God on their forehead. For the rest of us who reject this mark on the forehead, from the perspective of the pre-tribbers, what does that make us? Real genuine Christians who reject the mark of the beast would be viewed as the enemy, utterly sinful, and unrepentant by lost and confused pre-tribbers.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
It's entirely possible, in order to fulfill the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 16-8, pre-tribbers could take commands from the anti-Christ, who they believe to be Jesus come to establish His millennial kingdom, to take vengeance on those who rejected the mark of the beast on their forehead. Again, from their perspective, they could be viewing us as those who "know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..."
Think it's far-fetched that the persecution Christians will endure in the great tribulation could be from pre-tribbers? It's not.
Nope. The word of God betrays you.
We see 3 times in 2 thes 2. Something revealed/ something taken
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
The ac revealed the rapture follows.
You are MAKING THAT into some postrib rapture.
It ONLY say "REVEALED"
NOT: seated...in power....or seven years later.
But just to be sure some postribber does not try to reframe it , the Holy Spirit AUTHENTICATED it by CLARIFYING it 3 times.!!!!
We need not reframe it.
So your foundation of belief is actually against some postrib rapture belief.
We see 3 times in 2 thes 2. Something revealed/ something taken
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,
The ac revealed the rapture follows.
You are MAKING THAT into some postrib rapture.
It ONLY say "REVEALED"
NOT: seated...in power....or seven years later.
But just to be sure some postribber does not try to reframe it , the Holy Spirit AUTHENTICATED it by CLARIFYING it 3 times.!!!!
We need not reframe it.
So your foundation of belief is actually against some postrib rapture belief.
FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
Well, hello cv5. How're things?
If there were such verses, why haven't you shared any of them?
Oh, right. You KNOW you don't have any.
If there were, I'm quite sure you and abs would have been feeding them to me over and over.
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
Well, hello cv5. How're things?
If there were such verses, why haven't you shared any of them?
Oh, right. You KNOW you don't have any.
If there were, I'm quite sure you and abs would have been feeding them to me over and over.
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