The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

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FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
Absolutely said:
Oh good find!!!
Here is another good one;
The horses have no hooves in rev 19
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Oh, that's rich. Just change the subject when the subject gets a little, you know, uncomfortable.

Nowhere does it say they have any.
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Your irrelevant comments are really bizarre.

How about this? Nowehre does the Bible say Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

Or prove me wrong. With that primo verse that you think you have.
 
godlovejoy said:
It’s hard to understand these mysteries....Jesus taught Of the kingdom of God using parables like little stories so that whoever may be able to understand could possibly grasp the mystery and move into a deeper understanding eventually as they continued under this teaching. you have to understand that Jesus/God is establishing a kingdom that has authority and some will be called many will be called but only few chosen just as our presidency can only have certain people in power you have to be qualified and that’s not just through repentance and the forgiveness of your sins but it’s also through giving up your life in the flesh and giving yourself holy to the kingdom of God first and answering and obeying whatever God would have in his will for you to do that you would forsake all others and everything else in your life to follow after what God would ask of you that is the qualification for the kingdom of heaven, which is the first resurrection; of the Saints that are going to rule in the kingdom and have been qualified because of their own choosing to follow the word of God and to deny the flesh and the pride of life. If you don’t go in the first resurrection it just means you’re not chosen to rule and reign in the kingdom it doesn’t mean you won’t go to heaven when the books are opened at the great white throne judgment at the second resurrection.
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All fg ever does in here is " the words "white bird" appear nowhere on the white bird, therefore it CAN NOT BE a white bird"

Pure bait and switch foolery.
 
Absolutely said:
Jesus is mo longer the groom and the bride has become the wife at the end of the trib ( as declared in rev 19).

Mat 25
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

The virgins are waiting for the GROOM.
That would remove any postrib timeframe.
Not only that, the entire parable is framed in;
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

But lets back up.
Lets get the context BEFORE the parable
Mat 24. Jesus Lays out the trib and the second coming....THEN SHIFTS TO PRETRIB.
37 BUT, as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were BEFORE THE FLOOD they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
1Then, ( before the flood...pretrib) shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

( Jesus speaking in the same breath as mat 24) (His sermon did not have chapters originally).
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. ( DOOR SHUT AGAIN...as in noah).

Door shut with groom and virgins inside.
Marriage chamber...bedroom.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

How can all that be wrong?????

Vivid...vivid...pretrib rapture picture.
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Yes I can see where you're coming from Abs. But I think there are problems with that view.
"until the day that Noe entered into the ark" (Noah is in the ark, door is shut).

v. 40.....THEN SHALL....etc......tribulation has already begun.

Another problem is that when Jesus talks about His "coming" or "cometh", He is invariably speaking to the Second Coming after the tribulation. Never the rapture.
 
cv5 said:
Here is some good info from TDW. Hopefully it will help you sort this out.....

https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4641930/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4499209/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/

""FIRST resurrection" speaks to "unto resurrection OF LIFE" (in contrast to "unto resurrection OF JUDGMENT/DAMNATION), Jn5:29.

However, we can see clearly that the "2W" will be resurrected [which means 'TO STAND AGAIN' after having died] at the "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" events, at a time-slot completely DISTINCT from when ALL OTHERS will be "resurrected"... and they clearly "ascended up into Heaven" in that text. People try to reason this away, just so they can cling to the idea that Rev20:5-6 is saying (instead) "this is the FIRST TIME anyone will be resurrected" (not. The "2W" clearly will have been, PRIOR to this point in the chronology... They are a part of "unto resurrection OF LIFE," rather than the other)

--Rev20:6 - "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART in the resurrection, the first"

--1Cor15:23 - "[re: resurrection] But EACH [<--a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER [/RANK]" (giving indication there doesn't remain only ONE, at ONE point-in-time [and though I do agree the timing-issues relate in some measure to the various "harvests," I see it somewhat differently to that of how Neh6 explains it, in his Post #23, above mine--But YES, definitely MORE THAN ONE harvest, in nature and in scripture ;) ])"
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I believe scripture as it is written. And whether the rapture takes place pre or post tribulation is not a salvation issue. However, the thing that is most concerning is how people could be deceived. Those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture could unwittingly accept the mark of the beast thinking it is nothing more than a precursor. This because they don't believe they will be present on the Earth when the mark is instituted.
 
cv5 said:
Yes I can see where you're coming from Abs. But I think there are problems with that view.
"until the day that Noe entered into the ark" (Noah is in the ark, door is shut).

v. 40.....THEN SHALL....etc......tribulation has already begun.

Another problem is that when Jesus talks about His "coming" or "cometh", He is invariably speaking to the Second Coming after the tribulation. Never the rapture.
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Yes Jesus frames noah pretrib.
He is a prejudgment dynamic.
So the one taken / left is in that timeframe as well as the 10 virgins. Jesus framed it like that.

But to say everywhere we are told to watch, wait, and be ready is actually after the trib, then Jesus has either a very small or no audience at all since the bible says all take the mark or die.

I can not figure you guys believing that.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.

The joke's on you. Thinking that there are ANY verses saying what you keep claiming. All without any verse to prove it.
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The horses have no hooves.

Such wisdom
So cunning

What a joke.

That is your big guns

How impressive!!!!
 
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.

Oh, that's rich. Just change the subject when the subject gets a little, you know, uncomfortable.


Your irrelevant comments are really bizarre.

How about this? Nowehre does the Bible say Jesus takes resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

Or prove me wrong. With that primo verse that you think you have.
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Yawn
 
FreeGrace2 said:
How silly. There are NO pretrib verses. Anywhere.
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I took your covers off.
You are exposed for coming in here and trolling pretribbers.

Keep your big guns coming.

There is nothing at all of substance in your prove a negative rabbit trails.
 
Wansvic said:
I believe scripture as it is written. And whether the rapture takes place pre or post tribulation is not a salvation issue. However, the thing that is most concerning is how people could be deceived. Those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture could unwittingly accept the mark of the beast thinking it is nothing more than a precursor. This because they don't believe they will be present on the Earth when the mark is instituted.
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That's highly plausible.

Pre-tribbers are expecting God to come first before the anti-Christ. That means when the anti-Christ shows up giving out his mark on peoples' foreheads, the pre-tribbers will be expecting this: Revelation 22:4 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

I speculate that pre-tribbers would be showing up in droves to take what they believe in the name of God on their forehead. For the rest of us who reject this mark on the forehead, from the perspective of the pre-tribbers, what does that make us? Real genuine Christians who reject the mark of the beast would be viewed as the enemy, utterly sinful, and unrepentant by lost and confused pre-tribbers.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

It's entirely possible, in order to fulfill the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 16-8, pre-tribbers could take commands from the anti-Christ, who they believe to be Jesus come to establish His millennial kingdom, to take vengeance on those who rejected the mark of the beast on their forehead. Again, from their perspective, they could be viewing us as those who "know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

Think it's far-fetched that the persecution Christians will endure in the great tribulation could be from pre-tribbers? It's not.
 
Wansvic said:
I believe scripture as it is written. And whether the rapture takes place pre or post tribulation is not a salvation issue. However, the thing that is most concerning is how people could be deceived. Those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture could unwittingly accept the mark of the beast thinking it is nothing more than a precursor. This because they don't believe they will be present on the Earth when the mark is instituted.
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Not even true.
The remnant gets raptured pretrib.
The remnant have no use for the mark.
Why do you think postribbers ignore or omit the pretrib rapture verses?

Are they also in a grave danger since they are "primed" towards error?
 
Runningman said:
That's highly plausible.

Pre-tribbers are expecting God to come first before the anti-Christ. That means when the anti-Christ shows up giving out his mark on peoples' foreheads, the pre-tribbers will be expecting this: Revelation 22:4 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

I speculate that pre-tribbers would be showing up in droves to take what they believe in the name of God on their forehead. For the rest of us who reject this mark on the forehead, from the perspective of the pre-tribbers, what does that make us? Real genuine Christians who reject the mark of the beast would be viewed as the enemy, utterly sinful, and unrepentant by lost and confused pre-tribbers.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

It's entirely possible, in order to fulfill the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 16-8, pre-tribbers could take commands from the anti-Christ, who they believe to be Jesus come to establish His millennial kingdom, to take vengeance on those who rejected the mark of the beast on their forehead. Again, from their perspective, they could be viewing us as those who "know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

Think it's far-fetched that the persecution Christians will endure in the great tribulation could be from pre-tribbers? It's not.
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Nope. The word of God betrays you.
We see 3 times in 2 thes 2. Something revealed/ something taken
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


7...only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed,

The ac revealed the rapture follows.

You are MAKING THAT into some postrib rapture.

It ONLY say "REVEALED"
NOT: seated...in power....or seven years later.

But just to be sure some postribber does not try to reframe it , the Holy Spirit AUTHENTICATED it by CLARIFYING it 3 times.!!!!
We need not reframe it.

So your foundation of belief is actually against some postrib rapture belief.
 
Absolutely said:
Not even true.
The remnant gets raptured pretrib.
The remnant have no use for the mark.
Why do you think postribbers ignore or omit the pretrib rapture verses?

Are they also in a grave danger since they are "primed" towards error?
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My thoughts exactly......
 
Absolutely said:
All fg ever does in here is " the words "white bird" appear nowhere on the white bird, therefore it CAN NOT BE a white bird"
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What I do is expose your fallacies.

Pure bait and switch foolery.
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What is real foolery is believing that Jesus takes resurrected and raptured believers to heaven when there are NO verses that say so.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
There is not a single verse pointing to Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven, either.
cv5 said:
Talk like that is the reason I keep you on ignore for the most part. Ridiculous.
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Well, hello cv5. How're things?

If there were such verses, why haven't you shared any of them?

Oh, right. You KNOW you don't have any.

If there were, I'm quite sure you and abs would have been feeding them to me over and over.
 
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