The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[cv5]

I guess this is another instance where people believe what scripture says is not what it means.

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Here is some good info from TDW. Hopefully it will help you sort this out.....

https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4641930/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4499209/

https://christianchat.com/posts/4541581/

""FIRST resurrection" speaks to "unto resurrection OF LIFE" (in contrast to "unto resurrection OF JUDGMENT/DAMNATION), Jn5:29.

However, we can see clearly that the "2W" will be resurrected [which means 'TO STAND AGAIN' after having died] at the "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" events, at a time-slot completely DISTINCT from when ALL OTHERS will be "resurrected"... and they clearly "ascended up into Heaven" in that text. People try to reason this away, just so they can cling to the idea that Rev20:5-6 is saying (instead) "this is the FIRST TIME anyone will be resurrected" (not. The "2W" clearly will have been, PRIOR to this point in the chronology... They are a part of "unto resurrection OF LIFE," rather than the other)

--Rev20:6 - "BLESSED and holy is the one having A PART in the resurrection, the first"

--1Cor15:23 - "[re: resurrection] But EACH [<--a word meaning, "of more than two"] in his own ORDER [/RANK]" (giving indication there doesn't remain only ONE, at ONE point-in-time [and though I do agree the timing-issues relate in some measure to the various "harvests," I see it somewhat differently to that of how Neh6 explains it, in his Post #23, above mine--But YES, definitely MORE THAN ONE harvest, in nature and in scripture ])"

 

[Absolutely]

As TDW has so astutely demonstrated, that particular term "cometh" always pertains to the Second Coming. It never refers to the rapture of the Church.

Luke 12
38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

So you are going to tell me all that that Jesus spoke, he was referring to the coming on white horses?

If so, then there is no verse anywhere connecting "come" to the rapture .

 

[godlovejoy]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you point me to any verse that shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven?

Excuse me, but no, they haven't. EVER. I keep asking for at least one, but I've NEVER seen any.

Right. And when do you think the resurrection of all believers will occur?

Of course we know not the day or the hour as Jesus said only our father in heaven knows that but what I do is follow the sequence of occurrences from Matthew 24 he says this will happen than that and then that and then that and then you’ll see the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds so read Matthew 24 that’s what I am following in fact recently went all Covid started the Holy Spirit spoke to me that we were in the beginning of sorrows which is listed in chapter 24 of Matthew . So when all these things take place that’s when Jesus will be coming together’s holy
bride which is the first resurrection.

Matthew 24
King James Version


24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If so, then there is no verse anywhere connecting "come" to the rapture .

There is no verse anywhere showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

So, why should anyone believe that He does??

 

[FreeGrace2]

Of course we know not the day or the hour as Jesus said only our father in heaven knows that but what I do is follow the sequence of occurrences from Matthew 24 he says this will happen than that and then that and then that and then you’ll see the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds so read Matthew 24 that’s what I am following in fact recently went all Covid started the Holy Spirit spoke to me that we were in the beginning of sorrows which is listed in chapter 24 of Matthew .

That is some long sentence!!

So when all these things take place that’s when Jesus will be coming together’s holy
bride which is the first resurrection.

Agreed! The single resurrection of all believers will occur "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23, which is at the Second Advent.

 

[godlovejoy]

The Bible teaches only ONE resurrection of the saved. Not "phases" of resurrections.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Please count how many phases of resurrections you find in this verse. Same for all these verses:

It’s hard to understand these mysteries....Jesus taught Of the kingdom of God using parables like little stories so that whoever may be able to understand could possibly grasp the mystery and move into a deeper understanding eventually as they continued under this teaching. you have to understand that Jesus/God is establishing a kingdom that has authority and some will be called many will be called but only few chosen just as our presidency can only have certain people in power you have to be qualified and that’s not just through repentance and the forgiveness of your sins but it’s also through giving up your life in the flesh and giving yourself holy to the kingdom of God first and answering and obeying whatever God would have in his will for you to do that you would forsake all others and everything else in your life to follow after what God would ask of you that is the qualification for the kingdom of heaven, which is the first resurrection; of the Saints that are going to rule in the kingdom and have been qualified because of their own choosing to follow the word of God and to deny the flesh and the pride of life. If you don’t go in the first resurrection it just means you’re not chosen to rule and reign in the kingdom it doesn’t mean you won’t go to heaven when the books are opened at the great white throne judgment at the second resurrection.

 

[godlovejoy]

There is no verse anywhere showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

So, why should anyone believe that He does??

This is the verse of the resurrection (Rapture).
Mathew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[godlovejoy]

This is the verse of the resurrection (Rapture).
Mathew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a GREAT SOUND OF A TRUMPET and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
Also in:
1Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Jackson123]

....and i am showing you you have no verses to support that notion.

I give you 2 Tess 2

You know wedding after second coming don't you

 

[Jackson123]

This is the verse of the resurrection (Rapture).
Mathew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And it happen immediately after tribulation

 

[Marilyn]

The saved from OT and NT will be ones living in new Earth with God.

And scriptures specific for the Body of Christ?

 

[Evmur]

Lets look and see;

Mat 24
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Mat 25
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Most all churches have carnal nominal sinful believers galore.

They do not go in the rapture.

Blood bought. Born again. that is the dividing line between those left behind and those who go.

The virgins are not the church ... the BRIDE is the church, she will not need to knock to gain entrance.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If you don’t go in the first resurrection it just means you’re not chosen to rule and reign in the kingdom it doesn’t mean you won’t go to heaven when the books are opened at the great white throne judgment at the second resurrection.

The Bible teaches that there is just ONE single resurrection for the saved, and ONE for the unsaved.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. One each.

All believers will receive their glorified bodies "when He comes".

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Every believer belongs to Christ. And ALL will receive resurrection bodies when He comes.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
There is no verse anywhere showing Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

So, why should anyone believe that He does??

This is the verse of the resurrection (Rapture).
Mathew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Did you read my question above? This verse does NOT show Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

 

[FreeGrace2]

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed
Also in:
1Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Nope. This verse does not show Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven.

 

[Absolutely]

I give you 2 Tess 2

You know wedding after second coming don't you

So you turned it into the wedding feast?
2thes 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Reread it
The setting is "revealed then immediate rapture"
That means you are placing the wedding feast at the rapture.

 

[cv5]

This is the verse of the resurrection (Rapture).
Mathew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

No ma'am. Those would definitely be Israelites who survived the great tribulation.

See Isaiah 27:12-13. This is undoubtedly what Jesus is referring to in this Matthew passage.

 

[Absolutely]

Blood bought. Born again. that is the dividing line between those left behind and those who go.

The virgins are not the church ... the BRIDE is the church, she will not need to knock to gain entrance.

Lets see what it really says
Mat 25 ( still in the " before judgement" setting)
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The 5 wise go into the wedding chamber.

The virgins are vividly depicted as blood nought born again believers.
Not only that, they are placed in the same timing as the one taken/left ( before the flood)

To top it off both of those groups have the same ratio of 50 / 50.

BOTH GROUPS are IMMEDIATELY framed in
WATCHING, WAITING, BEING READY
Without mistake. Both are the rapture.

But you are trying to make some case that some unknown group goes into the marriage room and shuts the door before the trib that are watching and waiting for Jesus.

But for some strange reason your doctrine prevents those blood bought born again saints from being christians.

 

[Absolutely]

And it happen immediately after tribulation

yes
Angels gather from heaven
After the trib.
Rapture is Jesus gathers from earth.

You have no postrib rapture verses.

 

[Absolutely]

I give you 2 Tess 2

You know wedding after second coming don't you

There is not a single verse pointing to a wedding after the trib......or wedding feast either.