TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[Kavik]

It may be possible to post some speech that presents phonetically inflected and in a glottal and nuanced cadence that mimics a real language but is in fact entirely false.

Yes - many actors do this when pretending to speak a foreign language (faux German, French, etc.)

Well, Paul's "tongues of angels" is pure hyperbole, but it would be relatively easy enough to determine if what is being uttered meets the universal criteria of "language"; i.e., whether or not it's simple non-cognitive non-language utterance or actual language.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

the biggest abandonment of the word of God is when one uses pagan practices to describe or discredit the Holy Spirit instead of the Word of God to prove their point. Acts 1:8 is Jesu speaking Mark 16 is Jesus Speaking John chapter 14 & 15 is Jesus Speaking.

1 Cor chapter 12 through 14 is the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul. But I will seek secular and pagan practices and past experience when I serve the Devil to make one position authoritative over the word of God.

When I hear how one states they use to be a devil worshiper and today they think they have more revelation from the word of God than everyone else shows that 1. Pride is still ruling.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today Because the word of God never states they have stopped. All have addressed the foolishness and abuse of the gifts but those who try to make all Pentecostals and Charismatics to have been taken over by the devil is foolish thinking.

If the word of God in the meaning of speaking in tongues were sufficient in the matter of anyone becoming a believer than you all failed big style - and no surprise there because this is a forum and not a church where he could hear the word spoken. And it is that precise meaning I want to demonstrate to him. There is a reason he has asked his question in that vein. You can't even convince other believers let alone believers on a forum - and the word of God is brought to a ruin in the sight of unbelievers. And stop inflecting false claims onto me pastor. I am not as you imagine and you would do well to resist accusing me of claiming to have an intention of expressing pagan things or practise pagan things.. The man who asked the question knows very well how simple a matter it is for him to cause a division so I intend to show him with precision just how deception works and ask him to uphold his claim to having had his linguistic mind tweaked. I have even given him a heads up because I have no intention of deceiving him or anyone else.

 

[Kavik]

He is attempting to gain more weapons in his effort to disprove the Holy Spirit and Gifts.

His spirit should make you quiver because where the source ultimately originates from!

That's a rather fanciful remark. I'm not attempting to disprove anything. I completely believe that the Holy Spirit bestows gifts as it will.

It's more a linguistic exercise than anything.

 

[CS1]

those who use secular humanism to disprove the Word of God never cease to make me laugh. Science is not the authoritative word of God. linguist, atheist, and postmodernist can never understand the power of the Holy Spirit without a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Those who come to God MUST Believe That HE is and a rewarded of them that seek him diligently. Many say they are not trying to disprove by the means of the secular, just read their post.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

That's a rather fanciful remark. I'm not attempting to disprove anything. I completely believe that the Holy Spirit bestows gifts as it will.

It's more a linguistic exercise than anything.

You seem to already have something in mind or you would not be pursuing the linguistic end of Tongues.

You present yourself to be familiar enough to know the differences.

So, why don't you present the Evidence and see if we believe?

 

[Kavik]

the majority of threads he participates in are those dealing with Tongues.

Yes, of course, I'm a linguist and the phenomenon of glossolalia is an interest of mine.

"There are literally less than 50 true college and professional linguistic's worldwide who travel and study the differences between races, creeds, and territorial"

Not sure what you're getting at - one doesn't need to travel the world as a cultural/linguistic anthropologist to gain insight on the various beliefs and practices of glossolalia on a global scale.

 

[Wansvic]

Those who wish to know if speaking in tongues is real should ask God for the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Luke 11:13) Putting ones faith in denominational beliefs or other human beings is not the answer.

 

[Kavik]

So, why don't you present the Evidence and see if we believe?

I've already addressed the phenomenon of modern tongues-speech in other comments/threads - I'm presenting what modern tongues-speech is, not what people believe it to be. As I've mentioned on other threads, I am not doubting or questioning the "tongues experience" - glossolalia as the spiritual tool that it is, can be very powerful and, for many people, the experience is profound. As one commenter put it, “Speaking in tongues distracts the ego/analytical/conscious mind while leaving the subconscious (the heart) wide open to import the divine." Both the spiritual and physical benefits of using this tool are also well documented.

Again though, it is important to note that this same statement can be made for virtually _any_ other culture that practices glossolalia. Religious and cultural differences aside, the glossolalia an Evenki Shaman in Siberia, a vodoun priestess in Togo and a Christian tongues-speaker in Alabama are producing are in no way different from each other. They’re all producing their glossolalia in the exact same way; they just have different explanations and beliefs as to why they’re doing it, and where it comes from.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Yes, of course, I'm a linguist and the phenomenon of glossolalia is an interest of mine.

"There are literally less than 50 true college and professional linguistic's worldwide who travel and study the differences between races, creeds, and territorial"

Not sure what you're getting at - one doesn't need to travel the world as a cultural/linguistic anthropologist to gain insight on the various beliefs and practices of glossolalia on a global scale.

I get my information on linguistics from:
Margaret Stephenson <stephens@actr.org>

• 1996-7: study abroad in Russia: 122
• 1997-8: study abroad in Russia: 161

American University

She has done a diversity of work in the advancement of understanding Linguistics.

 

[Kavik]

but what about the original question? You seem to not want to address it.

Unfortunately, this seems to be rather common in times I've asked for examples of what people consider legitimate tongues speech and that which is perceived as not legitimate. With all due respect to those concerned, it seems a bit odd to me that for so many people who have such a strong belief in "tongues", that there seems to be a great deal of reluctance to provide example(s) of what they perceive as a legitimate; particularly if said example is going to be studied and analyzed.

 

[CS1]

hmmm the Gifts are given to the body of Christ to edify the church found in Eph chapter 4:11

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

No linguist here or secular humanism or reasoning

 

[Kavik]

Margaret Stephenson

Sure you got the last name right? Not a whole lot comes up under this one.

 

[ResidentAlien]

All I heard Kavik say was if there's a difference between real and fake tongues, someone should present their case. Of course, everyone knows no one will do this because it's all talk.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Sure you got the last name right? Not a whole lot comes up under this one.

I was corrected by my friend, it is her Mother:

"Homo Loquens": Language in the Context of Cosmic Education.
Stephenson, Margaret E.
NAMTA Journal, v26 n2 p83-96 Spr 2001
Discusses language in the context of human development and civilization, examining a limitless field of studies and observations including the absorbent mind, the acquisition of language and grammatical structure, the linguistic capacity for abstract thought, the power of language and world community, the role of language and human uniqueness, and the study of language itself.
Descriptors: Abstract Reasoning, Articulation (Speech), Child Language, Community, Cultural Influences, Early Childhood Education, Global Approach, Human Geography, Human Relations, International Cooperation, Language Acquisition, Language Role, Language Usage, Language Variation, Montessori Method, Social Influences, Sociolinguistics

 

[Kavik]

All I heard Kavik say was if there's a difference between real and fake tongues, someone should present their case. Of course, everyone knows no one will do this because it's all talk.

No one really needs to "present a case" per se - I'm just curious on what people perceive t be "real" as opposed to what is perceived to be "fake".

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Yes - many actors do this when pretending to speak a foreign language (faux German, French, etc.)

Well, Paul's "tongues of angels" is pure hyperbole, but it would be relatively easy enough to determine if what is being uttered meets the universal criteria of "language"; i.e., whether or not it's simple non-cognitive non-language utterance or actual language.

You are clearly not a linguist albeit you appear to be laying claim to cultural/linguistic anthropological standing - in which case you should have no difficulty in proving that what I post is not a true language - and not because I have already stated that I will be speaking nonsense - but because you say you can devise a formal means of doing so. And given the anthropological claim to culture and linguistics that would NOT be an ability to speak languages - rather to understand the neurological structures that are implicit in the acquisition of first language and the cultural way that any language can be devised - even when a new language is being constructed out of a formal cultural precedent where several languages come together - culturally out of a distinct shared experience within an anthropological meaning. In short Creole.

Is that it - or do I need to go further?

So when I have recorded several examples of garbage - you tell me how you can determine that they are not languages. Agreed?

 

[ResidentAlien]

No one really needs to "present a case" per se - I'm just curious on what people perceive t be "real" as opposed to what is perceived to be "fake".

Sounds to me like you're asking for a case to be made. Sorry if that's not what you mean.

 

[CS1]

For one to say we must understand the neurological structures? In context to the word of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, like saying God did not split the RED sea and it is a fairytale. Using humanistic reasoning to explain a supernatural experience that God is doing is foolish. Paul said No man understands what is being said


1cor 14:2

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.


In the spirit, he speaks and it is mysteries. BUT a linguist knows better than the word of God? having an understanding of the neurological structure in the brain when one is speaking in tongues tells us it is not God's Spirit empowering one to do so?

And they say were unbiblical?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

For one to say we must understand the neurological structures? In context to the word of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, like saying God did not split the RED sea and it is a fairytale. Using humanistic reasoning to explain a supernatural experience that God is doing is foolish. Paul said No man understands what is being said

In the spirit, he speaks and it is mysteries. BUT a linguist knows better than the word of God? having an understanding of the neurological structure in the brain when one is speaking in tongues tells us it is not God's Spirit empowering one to do so?

And they say were unbiblical?

You really need to take a step back. You are not my enemy and neither am I yours. I don't need correcting at every semblance of what I have said to another poster. The claim of the poster is grounded in that precise meaning which I posted to him @#496. By all means you are free to post what you desire to post - but it is simply upholding a meaning that he takes delight in despite his seeming neutrality. Let him speak for himself.

 

[Kavik]

Sounds to me like you're asking for a case to be made. Sorry if that's not what you mean.

No worries - more for my own edification. I'm just really curious to hear an example of what people deem as legitimate tongues-speech.