No, the earth is not flat

[2ndTimothyGroup]

People in general used to be more respectful and friendly. I blame decades of propaganda (both outside AND inside the church) for the unfortunate polarization of society we see today.

The Establishment finds it easier to control us all when we are already at each other's throats.

Well, allow me to say this . . . I'd like to be a moderator here and enforce the concept of what it means to be kind. I'd gladly trade in all public comments to simply enforce kindness so that people who know nothing about Christianity can come and not see "christians" hating on and attacking each other. It is simply unbelievable.

 

[JStates]

you cannot physically carry enough fuel to keep a balloon in a equatorial or equatorial-skew flight path above a flat earth.
on FE you need constant propulsion to stay at altitude plus constant propulsion to move about in a huge circle, with constant centrifugal propulsion to keep steering.
above the actual earth you take advantage of curvature & lack of atmospheric drag at high altitudes, reach a certain speed at a certain height, and then just fall. you need no more fuel but to make adjustments to your height once in a while from the small amount of friction in the sparse space.
you can't even orbit any balloon for the amount of time actual satellites are readily observed to stay in orbit in the real world.

and that's not even touching on the subject of polar-orbit satellites - of which there are many, mostly weather and military surveillance. on a flat earth this is impossible altogether, but you can go out in your back yard and literally watch dozens every night, wherever you are - i will give you a link to an app if you want.

it is easy to be fooled from your recliner in your basement looking at youtube all night. but balloons cannot possibly explain the observations you or i or anyone on earth can make if you just go outside and look up.

speaking of, you have not explained sunrise or sunset yet.
i have.
why don't you make a point to get up in the AM and watch the sun; tell me if it does what FE predicts or what a orb-earth predicts?
such a simple test. such a readily apparent truth.

Sunrise and sunset are some of the easiest things to explain on a flat earth. There are a ton of videos about it at the link I posted. I'll give a brief summary but I'm not going to write another huge wall of text since I did so already in one of the flat earth threads here. Basically, the sun is like a lantern in the foggy, dark woods at night. It illuminates a sphere around it, but you will see that light less and less the farther away you are, because of the fog in the air. The atmosphere is the same, it has inherent weight to it, but also water vapor, dust, smog, etc. which means you don't have an infinite view distance and light must push through the atmosphere. Because of perspective, when things in the sky get farther from you, they appear to be doing down in your vision when they may not be. This is why the sun appears to go down when setting. Stand in a long hallway like in a hotel and look at the line of lights in the ceiling. As they go away from you, they seem to get lower due to perspective. Same principle.

You are mistaken about balloon technology. A fully enclosed balloon with computer controlled gas system can make fine adjustments to its altitude and stay aloft for a couple years. This technology already exists. You can find more information on NASA's websites. We're not talking about open envelope balloons like hot air balloons.

NASA is the world's #1 consumer of helium gas. The Department of Defense is #2. Both have a lot of satellites they need to keep aloft.

 

[posthuman]

Sunrise and sunset are some of the easiest things to explain on a flat earth. There are a ton of videos about it at the link I posted. I'll give a brief summary but I'm not going to write another huge wall of text since I did so already in one of the flat earth threads here. Basically, the sun is like a lantern in the foggy, dark woods at night. It illuminates a sphere around it, but you will see that light less and less the farther away you are, because of the fog in the air. The atmosphere is the same, it has inherent weight to it, but also water vapor, dust, smog, etc. which means you don't have an infinite view distance and light must push through the atmosphere. Because of perspective, when things in the sky get farther from you, they appear to be doing down in your vision when they may not be. This is why the sun appears to go down when setting. Stand in a long hallway like in a hotel and look at the line of lights in the ceiling. As they go away from you, they seem to get lower due to perspective. Same principle.

that's the freemason Rowbatham's clearly flawed & oft debunked argument that you bought wholesale.
and he didn't even believe it himself; it was sarcastic mocking of what he considered to be the ignorant.
an inside joke in a secret pagan club.
i'm not ignorant on these subjects. i have been discussing them since 1997.

look down infinite railroad tracks -- the ground never appears above the sky.
look down a hallway as long as you want it to be - the floor never appears above the ceiling.
but that's the lie that you're being tricked into believing, and being used to spread.

go in the morning, face east, and watch the sun rise.

 

[kinda]

Yes, I am a serious flat earther. Yes, I answered your questions to the best of my ability.

I'll echo what another flat earth truther once said: We can see the deception behind the globe, but that doesn't mean we have all the answers to everything.

However, if you carefully consider the materials I posted for you with an open mind, I think you will come away with just a bit of a new perspective.

O.k., I realize that there needs to be clarification, before I can begin to even refute what your saying.

Do you have a model, map, of this flat earth non-sense? According to Dave, he says, flat earthers don't have a map, so we bascially have to find one for you, and draw conclusions. This seems unreasonable, it's like putting words in someone's mouth.

With that said, do you have a map of the flat earth, that you feel correctly represents your view point? If you say, no, the discussion is over until you actually have something you can test, rather than just moving the marker or goal post to some unknown destination. Both the Convex and Concave models have models, that anyone can find, so just giving you the opportunity to set the record straight.

 

[posthuman]

look down infinite railroad tracks -- the ground never appears above the sky.
look down a hallway as long as you want it to be - the floor never appears above the ceiling.

unless it's curved . . . !

 

[JStates]

O.k., I realize that there needs to be clarification, before I can begin to even refute what your saying.

Do you have a model, map, of this flat earth non-sense? According to Dave, he says, flat earthers don't have a map, so we bascially have to find one for you, and draw conclusions. This seems unreasonable, it's like putting words in someone's mouth.

With that said, do you have a map of the flat earth, that you feel correctly represents your view point? If you say, no, the discussion is over until you actually have something you can test, rather than just moving the marker or goal post to some unknown destination. Both the Convex and Concave models have models, that anyone can find, so just giving you the opportunity to set the record straight.

Alex Gleason wrote a book titled "Is the Bible from Heaven? Is the Earth a Globe?" over a hundred years ago. He also produced Gleason's New Standard Map of the World, an AE projection map of the Earth that most serious flat earthers use.

If I recall, this video is a good overview of what serious flat earthers believe.

This is Dave Weiss' "FE Crash Course" video playlist. These are the core essentials to understanding serious flat earth topics, and will be a pretty solid foundation if you want to dive in.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEzivhxtxgbtrtyKphTY5_5vifQ8-Ynes

 

[kinda]

Alex Gleason wrote a book titled "Is the Bible from Heaven? Is the Earth a Globe?" over a hundred years ago. He also produced Gleason's New Standard Map of the World, an AE projection map of the Earth that most serious flat earthers use.

If I recall, this video is a good overview of what serious flat earthers believe.

This is Dave Weiss' "FE Crash Course" video playlist. These are the core essentials to understanding serious flat earth topics, and will be a pretty solid foundation if you want to dive in.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEzivhxtxgbtrtyKphTY5_5vifQ8-Ynes

I felt like my question was glossed over. Is there a model of the flat earth? It sounds like Dave was right about what he said, since you are misdirecting once again.

This has been my experience dealing with Gary and now you. It's a cat and mouse discussion. Question is asked, than the answer never comes, or it's like a question that was answered, that wasn't asked, to give an appearance like there is a discussion. Better yet, the answer comes and it's balloons that hold satellites in space. Crack pot ideas that can't be proved or disproved, without the help of NASA, which is not the most honest agency. lol

Thanks for your time, conclusion has been made.

Here is my verdict on the flat earth religion.

1. Flat earth fails to provide a model, so it can't be tested.
2. Answers to questions asked are either answered in generalities, with absurd crack pot creativity, or misdirection.

Flat earth priests are preaching bad science and JStates already stated, that he could be entirely wrong in an earlier post. That's probably the most accurate statement he said, regarding the flat earth.

Here are videos of discrediting flat earth, watch these, than read what JStates says about flat earth, than decide which makes more sense. I think this will be a copy paste for any future flat earth threads, so cased is closed in my view, until they finally at least show case a model of the flat earth.

Here is basically the whole topic in a nut shell. I know something you don't, but I will never show it, since if I ever did, you could disprove it.

Don't try to taste the pizza, since flat earthers will never offer to buy it....ever! Flat Earth Priests, please come up with a working model, so it can be tested, until than, this game of keep away gets very old.



Flat earthers look at pizza and say, that reminds me of the planet I live. Da End!

 

[kinda]

This is probably the best you will ever see between a heliocentric view point and flat earth model. I love when more than one view point is allowed to talk. I think there is room for one more view point, such a concave hollow earth model. It's great being able to see things differently from both NASA and another alternative view point, such as flat earth. I honestly think you can't fit a million earth's inside the sun, but she is suppose to be an Astronomer, so she knows more than anyone right? Negative!

Real NASA Astronomer Reviews Flat Earth Simulator • Professionals Play

 

[JStates]

This is probably the best you will ever see between a heliocentric view point and flat earth model. I love when more than one view point is allowed to talk. I think there is room for one more view point, such a concave hollow earth model. It's great being able to see things differently from both NASA and another alternative view point, such as flat earth. I honestly think you can't fit a million earth's inside the sun, but she is suppose to be an Astronomer, so she knows more than anyone right? Negative!

Real NASA Astronomer Reviews Flat Earth Simulator • Professionals Play

If that's the flat earth simulation on Steam, it's terrible. It also - interestingly enough - has a unique disclaimer that Steam created just for it. You can't tell me that flat earth doesn't get suppressed, censored, and disclaimered.

 

[Dino246]

Sunrise and sunset are some of the easiest things to explain on a flat earth. There are a ton of videos about it at the link I posted. I'll give a brief summary but I'm not going to write another huge wall of text since I did so already in one of the flat earth threads here. Basically, the sun is like a lantern in the foggy, dark woods at night. It illuminates a sphere around it, but you will see that light less and less the farther away you are, because of the fog in the air. The atmosphere is the same, it has inherent weight to it, but also water vapor, dust, smog, etc. which means you don't have an infinite view distance and light must push through the atmosphere. Because of perspective, when things in the sky get farther from you, they appear to be doing down in your vision when they may not be. This is why the sun appears to go down when setting.

This can explain some observations of the the rise and fall above the horizon. It fails completely to explain how the sun begins to rise from completely below the horizon and finishes setting completely below the horizon.

 

[JStates]

This can explain some observations of the the rise and fall above the horizon. It fails completely to explain how the sun begins to rise from completely below the horizon and finishes setting completely below the horizon.

The optical horizon is above the physical one. You can see demonstrations of this in videos on the Flat Earth Podcast site.
https://www.theflatearthpodcast.com/must-see-videos/

 

[posthuman]

The optical horizon is above the physical one. You can see demonstrations of this in videos on the Flat Earth Podcast site.
https://www.theflatearthpodcast.com/must-see-videos/

that's nonsense.

as i said previously, if you look down an infinite hallway on a flat surface, there is no point at which the floor appears above the ceiling, no matter what height you are looking from.

if you think otherwise, show me the geometry; don't post video links. i am not watching anyone's videos.
if you cannot make your own case it is strongly suggested that you do not comprehend the arguments.
so go learn; get knowledge & get understanding. put your beliefs to the test. if they can't hold up they aren't worth holding.

believe me; you will not put any math in this thread that i won't understand.
show me the geometry

 

[Dino246]

Well, allow me to say this . . . I'd like to be a moderator here and enforce the concept of what it means to be kind. I'd gladly trade in all public comments to simply enforce kindness so that people who know nothing about Christianity can come and not see "christians" hating on and attacking each other. It is simply unbelievable.

While there is a shortage of kindness (I'm guilty at times), by judging other people without knowing their hearts, you would likely soon be tossing people out who were not being unkind, but whose posts you misinterpreted.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

While there is a shortage of kindness (I'm guilty at times), by judging other people without knowing their hearts, you would likely soon be tossing people out who were not being unkind, but whose posts you misinterpreted.

Oh. Is that what I would likely do?

 

[JStates]

that's nonsense.

as i said previously, if you look down an infinite hallway on a flat surface, there is no point at which the floor appears above the ceiling, no matter what height you are looking from.

if you think otherwise, show me the geometry; don't post video links. i am not watching anyone's videos.
if you cannot make your own case it is strongly suggested that you do not comprehend the arguments.
so go learn; get knowledge & get understanding. put your beliefs to the test. if they can't hold up they aren't worth holding.

believe me; you will not put any math in this thread that i won't understand.
show me the geometry

I can make my own case well enough. But it's frustrating to me to have to redo what others have already explained much better than I can explain. I put in THOUSANDS of hours researching flat earth. Is this seriously the constraint that you will put upon me? That I have to REPRODUCE those thousands of hours of material in my own words before you will listen to them? And why would you listen to my version when someone else has done it better?

A waste of my time, but an easy ask on your part because you are sitting on your heinie doing no work whatsoever. I WORKED for the understand of the world that I have. I cannot simply impart the contents of my mind into yours if you are not willing to look into this in detail for yourself.

Anyways, the hallway illustration is a good starting point, but imperfect. Now fill the long hallway with smoke and stacks of boxes and I think you'll see that the example works really well. The line of lights will disappear when the smoke impedes the light from reaching the observer's eye, even when there are still lights remaining that are within direct line of sight, technically, but obscured by the smoke in the atmosphere. And then, if there are any stacks of boxes higher than the observer, for example if the observer is seated with a stack of boxes in front of them, this forms a physical horizon that will physically obscure some of the lights. This is the equivalent of being on a plain with a mountain in front of you, and the sun disappearing behind that.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I can make my own case well enough. But it's frustrating to me to have to redo what others have already explained much better than I can explain. I put in THOUSANDS of hours researching flat earth. Is this seriously the constraint that you will put upon me? That I have to REPRODUCE those thousands of hours of material in my own words before you will listen to them? And why would you listen to my version when someone else has done it better?

A waste of my time, but an easy ask on your part because you are sitting on your heinie doing no work whatsoever. I WORKED for the understand of the world that I have. I cannot simply impart the contents of my mind into yours if you are not willing to look into this in detail for yourself.

Anyways, the hallway illustration is a good starting point, but imperfect. Now fill the long hallway with smoke and stacks of boxes and I think you'll see that the example works really well. The line of lights will disappear when the smoke impedes the light from reaching the observer's eye, even when there are still lights remaining that are within direct line of sight, technically, but obscured by the smoke in the atmosphere. And then, if there are any stacks of boxes higher than the observer, for example if the observer is seated with a stack of boxes in front of them, this forms a physical horizon that will physically obscure some of the lights. This is the equivalent of being on a plain with a mountain in front of you, and the sun disappearing behind that.

I'm not a flat-earther, per se, but I respect all that you have offered. I love your post above.

 

[JStates]

I'm not a flat-earther, per se, but I respect all that you have offered. I love your post above.

Thanks, it's good to have a fan, lol! I know there are some other flat earthers on here too. I keep meaning to go over and look around in that really big flat earth thread, the one that got thousands of responses.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Thanks, it's good to have a fan, lol! I know there are some other flat earthers on here too. I keep meaning to go over and look around in that really big flat earth thread, the one that got thousands of responses.

The thing is, is that we should be "fans" of each other as Christians. We are to Love each other, and not judge another's hearts . . . like what Dino just did to me a few minutes ago. We don't have to agree with each other, but we don't have to be rude. "christians" (lower-case intended) make it seem like we have to go to college to learn how to be nice. The comments slung around this place are not much different from the average comment section on youtube videos (which I entertain quite a bit). It's pretty sad that I would say something of the like, but hey . . . the shoe fits.

As you can see, I just drop out of conversation with people who are unable to be kind . . . it is nearly a 100% guaranteed waste of time.

 

[Dino246]

Oh. Is that what I would likely do?

According to the testimony of fallen human nature and well-established human history, I would say so, yes. There are no perfect human judges, and you cannot know another's heart or motivations.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

According to the testimony of fallen human nature and well-established human history, I would say so, yes. There are no perfect human judges, and you cannot know another's heart or motivations.

It is truly amazing that you would say such after having pre-determined what I would do (judging my heart's motivations).

You wrote: "you would likely soon be tossing people out who were not being unkind, but whose posts you misinterpreted"

Seriously.