As in the days of Noah... ALL flesh had CORRUPTED itself
- Thread starter PennEd
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No. I am saying that you are misrepresenting and misunderstanding His words. Christ was speaking about His uniqueness. He descended from Heaven, He was still in Heaven, and He would ascend back to Heaven. No mortal man can do what Christ did. Did you ask yourself how He could be in Heaven and earth at one and the same time?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven.
This was in the context of Christ telling Nicodemus "heavenly things". Christ was testifying that He is the Lord from Heaven and is revealing things which are known only in Heaven.
Enoch was raptured to Heaven, and Elijah was also raptured, but in a heavenly chariot. Then immediately after the resurrection of Christ, He took all the OT saints who were in Abraham's Bosom (in Sheol/Hades) directly to the New Jerusalem in Heaven (Heb 12:22-24). And after His ascension, starting with the martyr Stephen (Acts 7 & 8), every NT saint goes directly to Heaven.
Anyone can turn the plain words of scripture on its head if they so wish by ''exegesis'' it is not so hard to do. But
the plain words of Christ disagree with you
These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. Heb11:39&40
The above refers to those mentioned previously in the chapter. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David Samuel and the prophets. So though they had not been made perfect they entered Heaven anyway?
So in your view the imperfect can enter Heaven? Heaven has imperfect people in it
Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some 2Tim2:17&18
Why did you fail to read Hebrews 12:22-124 before posting this offensive post? So let me show you what is written there, and after you read it you should retract your post.
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Do you understand what has been said about the OT saints? They are "the spirits of just[ified] (or righteous) men who have been made perfect".
Why were they made perfect? By Christ's death at calvary. For no one in the OT could be truly righteous before God as none could faultlessly obey the law. Jesus death at Calvary was for those under the old covenant as well as the new. So your view that Enoch and Elijah, probably alongside others entered heaven would have to mean the imperfect entered Heaven
The term "sons of God" denotes a special act/offspring of God whereby they are above the carnal fleshly earthly existence.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Sons of God took the daughters of men = CLEAR distinction between two separate entities of God's creation.
AFFIRMED to us by Jude
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Fallen angels came to earth to pollute the human genome in an attempt to prevent the bloodline of Messiah = Immanuel = God in Man.
They came within eight individuals of completing their plan of corruption.
Nope. (<for the record)
You see a lot of things correctly but not this issue. I love you any way, brother.
O
Oblio
Guest
One night during 1974, my friend and I were walking from his place to my place. We encountered a being something like this. We were 5 feet from it and it looked me directly in the eyes. We both saw exactly the same thing and we were both terrified by it. We ran from it.
Our 15 minute walk took 75 minutes. I saw it again 2 1/2 years later, though I stayed away from it this time. I have no trouble believing that fallen watcher angels could procreate.
Our 15 minute walk took 75 minutes. I saw it again 2 1/2 years later, though I stayed away from it this time. I have no trouble believing that fallen watcher angels could procreate.
Nope. (<for the record)
You see a lot of things correctly but not this issue. I love you any way, brother.
Appreciate your love as well.
We agree with Scripture, without adding or taking away a single word = Amen
Nope. (<for the record)
You see a lot of things correctly but not this issue. I love you any way, brother.
Always keep our love for each other in Christ above all.
Please take a closer look at Gen 6 , Jude , 2 Peter and research the Book of Enoch.
Daniel also alerted us to co-mingling of foreign seed with the seed of men.
There is a preponderance of evidence worldwide of the fallen angels producing Giant human/angel offspring.
There is a preponderance of evidence that they have taken the same path of co-mingling with human dna today except on a covert level which is part of the end-times deception.
Enjoying the fellowship together as we always do.
Nope. (<for the record)
You see a lot of things correctly but not this issue. I love you any way, brother.
Dear Brother, we are in complete agreement with Scripture that the angels cannot reproduce when in their spiritual abode.
Here is more Scriptural evidence that Genesis 6 clearly speaks of fallen angels/sons of God, breeding with the daughters of men.
Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,
being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.
Genesis ch6
oh yeah you know my view on the pre trib thing brother there’s no scriptire to even suggest it it’s a construct to sell books
We both love Truth because there is no Life apart from it.
But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You, have the words of eternal life.
Our thirst can only be quenched by the Spirit of God.
Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
We do not fear man nor have respect of persons in our hearts as that would rob us of our Liberty in the Spirit.
You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit.
We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ’s authority, knowing that God is watching us.
NIV 2 Corinthians 2:17
What great Joy to know that our Father is watching us - may we be pleasing to what HE sees and hears from us.
May we continue in the Spirit - praying for one another and prophesying to one another.
Amen brother still waiting to find some disagreement in our spirit but there isn’t any because we have embraced the spirit of truth and life as many Christians here and in the world also have and do every day still
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
Romans 8:1-2 KJV
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32, KJV
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.”
Acts 5:29
I never understood the impact of false doctrine until I came here and started seeing how it forms a wall inside minds and hearts against truth , just like believing the truth forms a fortress in the heart against lies
whatever we accept as truth is going to lead us to where we’re going to spend eternity
Hello all, if I may, I'd like to share some scriptures that may help shed some light on the "sons of God" misunderstanding.
Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900)
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that (in erring) he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
I've heard for a long time that the popular belief is that the sons of God were fallen angels who took on human form and married women and procreated, thus making giant humans. And, sadly, this view takes a lot of imagination to conceive as well as a lot of focus on what, scientifically, is genetically possible. But, neither our creativity or logic, nor our science can explain a spiritual book like the Word of God. Only the Bible can explain the Bible.
Right off the bat, if one begins building on a crooked foundation, then anything he builds from there on will also be crooked (i.e., incorrect). So, here, the foundation begins with what is assumed to be a "fact", and that is, that the sons of God are definitely none other than fallen angels. But this "fact" is the crooked foundation I spoke of. Let's see what happens if we leave our own logic out of the equation and seek the scriptures to answer this question, "Can angels be called sons of God?".
Hebrews 1:4–6 (KJV 1900)
(Speaking of Christ) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he AT ANY TIME, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The implication here is that God is teaching us that at no time has he ever said to any angel, except for the Lord Jesus Christ, "thou art my son". Furthermore, God defines what it means to be called a son of God. He says that they have to be begotten by him, just like Christ was. Were angels ever begotten? Not 1 scripture will say this. Angels are created beings.
Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Ephesians 6:12 (KJV 1900)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
So, the Bible answers our first question as, no, at no point were angels called sons of God because they were never begotten, they were created. Christ is the only angel who was given the title of "son of God". And Christ is the only angel to who God said, "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee". The true children of God received that title also, but through Christ.
1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900)
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Ephesians 1:3–5 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (of SONS) by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
So, the only scriptures that leave no doubt as to who can be called a son or sons of God are Christ first, and those who were predestinated to become sons of God. Now, this allows us to go onto the obscure passages and understand them in light of the scriptures, not our imagination.
Job 38:6–7 (KJV 1900)
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
What could this possibly mean, that the sons of God shouted for joy? Well, why are they shouting for joy in the first place? Verse 6 tells us, because the cornerstone was laid. This language from God to Job is a veiled reference to the Lord Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone. And the laying of the cornerstone was when Christ was slain. God likens the saving of those predestined as the building of a spiritual temple. This is why they are compares to living stones, but Christ was the first stone laid of this temple.
Ephesians 2:19–21 (KJV 1900)
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
1 Peter 2:4–6 (KJV 1900)
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
The Bible teaches us, that as every true child of God became saved, that they, as a living stone, were added unto the holy temple of the Lord. We read that this included not only the apostles but also the prophets of the Old Testament. But in order to accomplish this, Christ had to be the first to die and raise back to spiritual life, because he was the cornerstone, he was the first stone laid. And he was:
Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 1:5 (KJV 1900)
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Colossians 1:18 (KJV 1900)
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This means that he died and rose again before the world began, making him the firstborn/first begotten from the dead. Making him have preeminence in ALL things. The reason a lamb is slain is for sin. This made the salvation of the Old Testament saints possible and gave them the right to be called the sons of God. Now we can understand Job 38:6-7. The words God was speaking, were not to be taken literally as there are no actual measuring lines, no actual foundations and no actual cornerstone. But this is all parabolic language. Both the foundation and the cornerstone, we learned represents Christ. As a matter of fact, these verses in Job are not focusing on the "sons of God", but rather they are focusing on what Christ's atonement accomplished. It accomplished so great a salvation from the beginning of the world. And God is illustrating this victory over sin and death as, the morning stars singing together and the sons of God shouting for joy. And just like both, the foundation and cornerstone of verse 6, typify Christ, both the morning stars and the sons of God, typify the children of God.
Understanding this will greatly help when we get to Genesis 6.
Genesis 6:1–3 (KJV 1900)
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that (in erring) he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
I've heard for a long time that the popular belief is that the sons of God were fallen angels who took on human form and married women and procreated, thus making giant humans. And, sadly, this view takes a lot of imagination to conceive as well as a lot of focus on what, scientifically, is genetically possible. But, neither our creativity or logic, nor our science can explain a spiritual book like the Word of God. Only the Bible can explain the Bible.
Right off the bat, if one begins building on a crooked foundation, then anything he builds from there on will also be crooked (i.e., incorrect). So, here, the foundation begins with what is assumed to be a "fact", and that is, that the sons of God are definitely none other than fallen angels. But this "fact" is the crooked foundation I spoke of. Let's see what happens if we leave our own logic out of the equation and seek the scriptures to answer this question, "Can angels be called sons of God?".
Hebrews 1:4–6 (KJV 1900)
(Speaking of Christ) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he AT ANY TIME, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
The implication here is that God is teaching us that at no time has he ever said to any angel, except for the Lord Jesus Christ, "thou art my son". Furthermore, God defines what it means to be called a son of God. He says that they have to be begotten by him, just like Christ was. Were angels ever begotten? Not 1 scripture will say this. Angels are created beings.
Colossians 1:16 (KJV 1900)
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Ephesians 6:12 (KJV 1900)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
So, the Bible answers our first question as, no, at no point were angels called sons of God because they were never begotten, they were created. Christ is the only angel who was given the title of "son of God". And Christ is the only angel to who God said, "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee". The true children of God received that title also, but through Christ.
1 John 3:1 (KJV 1900)
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Ephesians 1:3–5 (KJV 1900)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (of SONS) by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
So, the only scriptures that leave no doubt as to who can be called a son or sons of God are Christ first, and those who were predestinated to become sons of God. Now, this allows us to go onto the obscure passages and understand them in light of the scriptures, not our imagination.
Job 38:6–7 (KJV 1900)
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
What could this possibly mean, that the sons of God shouted for joy? Well, why are they shouting for joy in the first place? Verse 6 tells us, because the cornerstone was laid. This language from God to Job is a veiled reference to the Lord Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone. And the laying of the cornerstone was when Christ was slain. God likens the saving of those predestined as the building of a spiritual temple. This is why they are compares to living stones, but Christ was the first stone laid of this temple.
Ephesians 2:19–21 (KJV 1900)
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
1 Peter 2:4–6 (KJV 1900)
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
The Bible teaches us, that as every true child of God became saved, that they, as a living stone, were added unto the holy temple of the Lord. We read that this included not only the apostles but also the prophets of the Old Testament. But in order to accomplish this, Christ had to be the first to die and raise back to spiritual life, because he was the cornerstone, he was the first stone laid. And he was:
Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 1:5 (KJV 1900)
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Colossians 1:18 (KJV 1900)
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This means that he died and rose again before the world began, making him the firstborn/first begotten from the dead. Making him have preeminence in ALL things. The reason a lamb is slain is for sin. This made the salvation of the Old Testament saints possible and gave them the right to be called the sons of God. Now we can understand Job 38:6-7. The words God was speaking, were not to be taken literally as there are no actual measuring lines, no actual foundations and no actual cornerstone. But this is all parabolic language. Both the foundation and the cornerstone, we learned represents Christ. As a matter of fact, these verses in Job are not focusing on the "sons of God", but rather they are focusing on what Christ's atonement accomplished. It accomplished so great a salvation from the beginning of the world. And God is illustrating this victory over sin and death as, the morning stars singing together and the sons of God shouting for joy. And just like both, the foundation and cornerstone of verse 6, typify Christ, both the morning stars and the sons of God, typify the children of God.
Understanding this will greatly help when we get to Genesis 6.
O
Oblio
Guest
I found that when the Lord led me to read 1 Enoch, (the book of the Watchers), that helped me understand Genesis 6.
I have been meaning to read the book of Enoch for while now. If cannot read it, I was thinking about listening online. I do believe it does offer historical accounts that can help fill in the gaps of Genesis.
Don't take this wrong I agree with the vast majority of it,,, again though backing up into the Scriptures your quoting there's something easily missed in that there are two groups of angels who fall/fell,,, The one group fell(past tense) and they are reserved in chains of darkness ect.ect. so they fell past tense(you stated why with the Scriptures you quoted) and so they(those angels) fell prior to the deluge.
Again though there is an whole "other group" of angels spoken of as "and also afterward" in the scriptures. That is Satan,the devil the dragon who is obliviously not bound in chains ect. until the judgment along with the others who fell before the flood. In Job Satan states to God that he was "to and fro up and down in the earth"(after the flood=not in the first group before the flood). In Rev. 12 he is cast out of heaven because there is no more place found for him there. He is bound in chains at the beginning of the Mill.(Rev.19) and then loosed in Rev.20 so he(Satan,the devil) is not among the angels being spoken of in Jude,2 Peter ect. who are reserved until the judgment past tense but of the group "and also afterward" who directly effect the earth after the flood(the second group that fall). I'll leave this at that for now in that the first group fell(past tense) and are reserved in chains until judgment(only apply to before the flood) and then there is the other group of angels who fall/fell who exist present tense(after the flood till now) who are not among those angels who took wives as the first group did.