Tongues???

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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I speak in tongues. What I am asking about is where the Bible teaches that the content of what is spoken in tongues is intercession. We know of one instance in the Bible where others understood speaking in tongues and related what was said. They spoke of the marvelous works of God.
There is a passage in the Word refering to how at times one may resort to a sigh in prayer as being like tongues in thast it is the Holy Spirit interceding for the person praying.
I have had a sigh be my intercession at times, and I know the Lord understands what my needs are better than I, needs , praises and adoration too.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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1cor 14 &Romans (8:26-27)
Romans 8:26 says 'groanings which cannot be uttered.' Tongues can be uttered, since the disciples in Acts 2 spoke in tongues 'as the Spirit gave them utterance.' You have probably heard speaking in tongues spoken out loud, too. Why would 'groanings which cannot be uttered' refer to speaking in tongues?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
1 Cor 14:1-5

Holy Spirit language known only to God for our own edification = prayer to God that God delights in and in turn HE edifies us thru it.
Many of us take 'no man understandeth him' to describe the situation in church when someone speaks in tongues--not that there can never be a situation like Acts 2 where others understand. And Paul already suggested in chapter 13 speaking in the tongues of men and of angels.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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There is a passage in the Word referring to how at times one may resort to a sigh in prayer as being like tongues in thast it is the Holy Spirit interceding for the person praying.
I have had a sigh be my intercession at times, and I know the Lord understands what my needs are better than I, needs , praises and adoration too.
I think you are referring to the 'groanings which cannot be uttered' in Romans 8:26, but tongues clearly can be spoken. They were spoken in Acts 2:4 'as the Spirit gave them utterance.' Acts 2 indicates the crowd heard the disciples speaking. Some mocked and others were amazed-- more evidence that they are not unutterable. In I Corinthians 14, Paul wrote about sounds without distinction when discussing the need for interpretation. And both Acts and I Corinthians refer to 'speaking' in tongues, further evidence that speaking in tongues can be spoken.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Also, any university train Missionary like Montgomery, Helen are Linquists.
Isn't that a historical figure rather than a university?

There are some people who study linguistics who claim no speaking in tongues is human language. This doesn't fit the historical record, or the Biblical one for that matter. It may have to do with their samples. One study I saw a video about rejected speaking in tongues as a genuine language because the speaker spoke in a high pitched monotone rather than with the intonation of normal language, but I have heard people pray in English the same way with the same tone.

I would allow for different categories of what proports to be 'speaking in tongues.' First, I would say some are genuine human languages, current living languages or 'dead' languages. The second category I suspect may occur are tongues of angels, whatever those are like. A third category might be psychologically manufactured tongues. Someone really wants to speak in tongues to 'join the club' in a church where there is a lot of pressure to speak in tongues and where people are taught basically to blank their minds and say what comes to them while other people gather around them and 'speak in tongues.' I was in a big room full of people who all seemed to be saying 'bababa' or 'bada bada bada' once overseas. Then the fourth category might be a demonic counterfeit. Demons can speak in various languages, so they might fake tongues.

The Bible does not teach us to be afraid that God will give us something evil when we ask for the Holy Spirit, so i do not think believers should worry about accidentally getting a demonic tongue or even a fake tongue. And since we do not know how angelic languages are inflected for meaning, there would be no way to distinguish between categories two and three when it comes to tongues, so Linguistic studies of this sort would be inconclusive.

But there are linguists who teach in seminaries or Biblical language programs. Or at least those with some expertise in some branch of linguistics or training in linguistics from the philological perspective. For example, Hebrew language scholars may have some training in Semitic Linguistics.

The Summer Institute of Linguistics/ Wycliff folks often have Linguistics training which helps them learn new languages so that they can translate the Bible into these languages. This may involve documenting the language and creating an alphabet that takes into account unique phonetic sounds and phonemes.

But I think we are talking apples and oranges here. I have not heard of Ph.D.'s, Th.D.'s, etc. with training in Semitic linguistics writing studies trying to paint speaking in tongues as false. i have not heard of missionary Bible translator linguists doing this. The Book 'Spoken by the Spirit' does relate an account of a missionary who was trying to figure out how to transliterate 'Jesus' into a target language in Africa, whether to go with a traditional pronunciation or something else, when, on furlough, he heard a message in tongues in that language which used the variant he was considering, and he decided to use that for the Bible translation.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Many of us take 'no man understandeth him' to describe the situation in church when someone speaks in tongues--not that there can never be a situation like Acts 2 where others understand. And Paul already suggested in chapter 13 speaking in the tongues of men and of angels.
Correct, and this comes with prayer for the understanding.

When the Spirit desires for us to have the understanding, the Spirit will grant it.

Predominantly, the Gift of Tongues is private between us and God. We see in Acts, on the day of Pentecost, that the Holy Spirit granted both the Gift and the understanding to the intended audience.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,165
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Correct, and this comes with prayer for the understanding.

When the Spirit desires for us to have the understanding, the Spirit will grant it.

Predominantly, the Gift of Tongues is private between us and God. We see in Acts, on the day of Pentecost, that the Holy Spirit granted both the Gift and the understanding to the intended audience.
A more straightforward interpretation is that they spoke in the languages of the hearers.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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A more straightforward interpretation is that they spoke in the languages of the hearers.
Straight is the way and narrow is the path that leads to Life.

God is always STRAIGHT with a direct bullseye hit on target with TRUTH.

Concerning the Gift of Tongues: The STARIGHT FORWARD TRUTH leads every Child of God from the Gospel of John to Acts to 1 Corinthians.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,221
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68
Brighton, MI
Isn't that a historical figure rather than a university?

There are some people who study linguistics who claim no speaking in tongues is human language. This doesn't fit the historical record, or the Biblical one for that matter. It may have to do with their samples. One study I saw a video about rejected speaking in tongues as a genuine language because the speaker spoke in a high pitched monotone rather than with the intonation of normal language, but I have heard people pray in English the same way with the same tone.

I would allow for different categories of what proports to be 'speaking in tongues.' First, I would say some are genuine human languages, current living languages or 'dead' languages. The second category I suspect may occur are tongues of angels, whatever those are like. A third category might be psychologically manufactured tongues. Someone really wants to speak in tongues to 'join the club' in a church where there is a lot of pressure to speak in tongues and where people are taught basically to blank their minds and say what comes to them while other people gather around them and 'speak in tongues.' I was in a big room full of people who all seemed to be saying 'bababa' or 'bada bada bada' once overseas. Then the fourth category might be a demonic counterfeit. Demons can speak in various languages, so they might fake tongues.

The Bible does not teach us to be afraid that God will give us something evil when we ask for the Holy Spirit, so i do not think believers should worry about accidentally getting a demonic tongue or even a fake tongue. And since we do not know how angelic languages are inflected for meaning, there would be no way to distinguish between categories two and three when it comes to tongues, so Linguistic studies of this sort would be inconclusive.

But there are linguists who teach in seminaries or Biblical language programs. Or at least those with some expertise in some branch of linguistics or training in linguistics from the philological perspective. For example, Hebrew language scholars may have some training in Semitic Linguistics.

The Summer Institute of Linguistics/ Wycliff folks often have Linguistics training which helps them learn new languages so that they can translate the Bible into these languages. This may involve documenting the language and creating an alphabet that takes into account unique phonetic sounds and phonemes.

But I think we are talking apples and oranges here. I have not heard of Ph.D.'s, Th.D.'s, etc. with training in Semitic linguistics writing studies trying to paint speaking in tongues as false. i have not heard of missionary Bible translator linguists doing this. The Book 'Spoken by the Spirit' does relate an account of a missionary who was trying to figure out how to transliterate 'Jesus' into a target language in Africa, whether to go with a traditional pronunciation or something else, when, on furlough, he heard a message in tongues in that language which used the variant he was considering, and he decided to use that for the Bible translation.
"Helen Barrett studied at Wellesley College, where she graduated with teacher certification in 1884. She had studied and excelled in Greek, leading her class. (Later she would write and publish a translation of the New Testament.) She taught in Rochester and then at the Wellesley Preparatory School in Philadelphia.

...

The Convention was formed in 1907, bringing together most Baptists in the North who were associated with the historical missions to establish schools and colleges for freedmen in the South after the American Civil War. Now the American Baptist Churches USA, the association of Northern Baptist churches was also active in missions to Asia, particularly China.

In 1921, Montgomery was the first woman to be elected president of the Northern Baptist Convention (NBC), a

...

"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Barrett_Montgomery

You got me on that one friend.