Tongues???

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

CS1 said:

Please post the version of the Bible You used above for 1cor chapter 12 through 14.

You are creating a false narrative and "linguists" are not theologians. Your confidence in "linguist" to provide the Biblical interpretation of the scriptures is one of the most errored things I have seen. It is nothing but window dressing Eisegesis.

Let's look at your use of scriptures in this post above.

1. "Secular Studies while studying Tongues correctly translated as Languages one does not have to be an expert on the Bible. "

This is a very troubling thing coming from those who claim to be Evangelical and fundamentalist, in context to the word of God.
The Context of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which speaks in tongues is one by the power of the Holy Spirit where "interpretation IS ALSO A GIFT GIVEN BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, not to a linguist who learned a language ay UC Berleky. !cor 12 :10-11

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Nowhere in the text does it say "linguist" are the exceptions. The Holy Spirit is the person ONLY!

2. "It is just plan silly to claim they are not qualified to study external appearance of so-called tongues."

This is where human reasoning replaced proper exegesis of the text which changed the context and interpretation.

A "linguist" is not the method used in scripture to Interpret one who speaks in tongues. The interpretation is not a translation. That is where those like you errored.

The gifts are operated by the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit not man's intellect why? So God gets the Glory not man's ability to do.

Of course "linguists" would say this is not a real language, because they are limited in this supernature Gift of the Holy Spirit to Interpret without being given the gift of Interpretation as 1cor 12:10-11 to do so WITHOUT the Help of the Holy Spirit. AS the word of God states. The Carnal mind of the "linguist" is stomped, so they attack what they don't know or can know.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are for the church, not the worldly canal secular humanistic intellect. They are Spiritually discerned.

UC Berkley and others like it are not the way to know the gifts. YOU don't look outside the word of God to understand the word of God.

you must :

1. be saved
2. studied the word of God
3. Pray for understanding as the Holy Spirit teaches you. John chapter 14-16

Things that are helpful but not to replace the above:

sound biblical commentaries Strongs / Vines and other
Bible Dictionaries
proven teachers who are saved
geographical historical biblical locations like Iraq, Isreal, Egpyt which all I have personally been to and other places.

UC = UNgodly Colleges are not authoritative or what is best for the Christian to use.

I already listed the translation.

Neither Strong's nor Vine are sound Greek sources. They both suffer from word study fallacies.

TabinRivCA · Jan 3, 2022

presidente said:

I believe in speaking in tongues, but where does the Bible say tongues is intercessory or that Satan can block prayers in English, or whatever other language we know? if I pray to God, I should believe God to answer my prayers. If I were afraid Satan would block my prayer, that might hinder my faith, so I do not think this is a good or helpful teaching, and I cannot find it in the Bible. Paul said he would pray with the spirit and he would pray with the understanding.

If you speak in tongues and you don't know what you are praying, you do not know if you are praying for your needs, but Paul 'Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; .' (Philippians 4:6, NKJV). If we aren't to be anxious, why should we be anxious about Satan interfering with our prayers? And if we do not know what we prayed, how do we know if we let our requests be made known to God with prayer and supplication? We need to pray with the understanding also.

1Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.
It seems there are different purposes for speaking in tongues.

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

CS1 said:

Learn to read friend, I started with "I recently heard this text used against speaking in tongues, languages. " and asked for others objective opinions on answering the proof text.

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

studentoftheword said:

TheLearner ------does God cause fear and doubt --NO --Satan does ---and How does Satan cause this by and through our thoughts ---God Himself gave Satan full reign to attack our thought ------

Born Again people are Holy in Spirit but we still are in the flesh and we still sin and Satan can still put doubt about answered prayer in our thoughts ------we need to keep our thought life on God's word -----the Helmet is part of the armour that we true Christians should be wearing everyday as we are in a Spiritual Battle still with our thoughts ------Satan can and does cause Born again Christians to feel guilty when we sin and then he can cause you to doubt that you are worthy to have your prayer answered ------There is many scriptures about keeping your mind on the things of God and casting down bad thoughts -----when you pray and you feel bad about something you did Satan then has full reign to block your prayer by doubt and fear that God will not answer your prayer -----see Scriptures below ----

It sounds like TheLearner --you don't know how your enemy works ------and that is very dangerous when your are in a Spiritual War every Minute of every Day -----Satan is still the God of this world and as access to all people including Born Again people who have not become Grounded and rooted in God;s Faith and His Word -----Peter is a perfgect example of that ---Peter when he focused on Jesus being a mere man Walked on water ---but then when his focus went from Jesus to the wind ---He Sank ------

Can Satan Block Prayers Understanding The Spiritual World In Daniel 10
http://folcc.org/can-satan-block-prayers-understanding-the-spiritual-world-in-daniel-10/

Many believers have asked this question: Can Satan block prayers? In this audio message, given on April 8, 2018 Pastor Bob explains this subject. Can Satan block prayers? Yes! He blocked Daniels answer for 21 days. He hindered Paul’s plans. Can Satan block prayers today? Sure he can, but God’s word gives us an understanding of how to defeat our adversary and win. He can delay but not deny our answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this is Forerunner Commentary on Daniel 10 -----

Daniel 10:8-13 KjV

This was an awesome being of power, so great that ordinarily strong, valiant men were so frightened that they ran. Yet something withstood this great being to his face and kept him from getting to Daniel for three full weeks. We cannot even begin to imagine the titanic struggle that went on between, say, Gabriel and this other being. There must have been such an awesome wrestling match as men have never been witness to.

Whatever it was that withheld Gabriel from getting to Daniel must have been awfully powerful. Notice too that this great struggle was going on without Daniel even being aware of it.
Somehow a malignant demon tried to thwart Daniel's prayer from being answered.

James 1:6-7-8 GNT
But when you pray, you must believe and not doubt at all. Whoever doubts is like a wave in the sea that is driven and blown about by the wind. If you are like that, unable to make up your mind and undecided in all you do, you must not think that you will receive anything from the Lord.

The Parable of the Sower-----Mark 4 see verse verse 15

13 Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word.

15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.

16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—some thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times what was sown.”

2 Corinthians 10:5
King James Versio
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Romans 12:2

Amplified Bible
2 And do not be conformed to this world [any longer with its superficial values and customs], but be [a]transformed and progressively changed [as you mature spiritually] by the renewing of your mind [focusing on godly values and ethical attitudes], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His plan and purpose for you].

I say ---know how your Enemy works Folks ------you in a Spiritual Battle every minute of every day ------
and you win or loose the battle in your mind ------

Satan is unable to do anything to a believer without God's Permission --- book of Job.

Also, Satan is only a created being and can not be everywhere at once.

"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight. "

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

TabinRivCA said:

1 Corinthians 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Use Spiritual Gifts to Help the Church
14 Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. 2 I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. 3 But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. 4 Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

Verse 2 is saying that people do not understand what the words are, only that the concept is above their pay grade.

"
Verse 2
For no man understandeth (ουδεις γαρ ακουε). Literally, hears, gets the sense, understands. Verb ακουω used not getting the idea (cf. Acts 9:7; Acts 22:9).

Mysteries (μυστηρια). Unexplained mysteries (1 Corinthians 2:7).

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

TheLearner said:

Google spanish words used in english pdf About 460,000,000 results (0.58 seconds)
German words used in english pdf About 1,590,000,000 results (0.87 seconds)
Latin words used in english pdf About 155,000,000 results (0.64 seconds)

Choose any common language like that. You will find that English is no way "pure" English only.

TheLearner · Jan 3, 2022

TheLearner said:

Google spanish words used in english pdf About 460,000,000 results (0.58 seconds)
German words used in english pdf About 1,590,000,000 results (0.87 seconds)
Latin words used in english pdf About 155,000,000 results (0.64 seconds)

Choose any common language like that. You will find that English is no way "pure" English only.

studentoftheword · Jan 3, 2022

TheLearner said:

You are so right---but you seem to be lacking in your understanding that when God kicked Satan out of heaven He made Satan the god of this world -----and so he has God's permission to tempt us and to distort our thinking ----God needed Satan to give us choice ------Satan's only job is to keep us away from God and His word -----and God has given him permission to do that ---------

2 Corinthians 4
4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God

2 Corinthians 11---see verse 3 ---Satan has permission from God -----to deceive us by and through our thoughts

3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
New International Version

Paul and the False Apostles
11 I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me! 2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.

3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

DavidTree · Jan 3, 2022

88 said:

AGREE - Praying in the Gift of the Holy Spirit, in Tongues, is one of the most blessed ways for an individual to pray for oneself as it is a specific prayer that God hears = everytime.

Best part is this, the Holy Spirit is praying thru us back to the Father for our own specific needs even when we do not understand what we prayed.

JaumeJ · Jan 4, 2022

TheLearner said:

Linguists are also translators and many are Christians. Also, those doing Secular Studies while studying Tongues correctly translated as Languages one does not have to be an expert on the Bible. It is just plan silly to claim they are not qualified to study external appearance of so-called tongues.

I cor 12
7 Something from the Spirit can be seen in each person. The Spirit gives this to each one to help others. 8 The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom. And the same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge. 9 The same Spirit gives faith to one person and to another he gives gifts of healing. 10 The Spirit gives to one person the power to do miracles, to another the ability to prophesy, and to another the ability to judge what is from the Spirit and what is not. The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak in different kinds of languages, and to another the ability to interpret those languages. 11 One Spirit, the same Spirit, does all these things. The Spirit decides what to give each one.
...
27 All of you together are the body of Christ. Each one of you is a part of that body. 28 And in the church God has given a place first to apostles, second to prophets, and third to teachers. Then God has given a place to those who do miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who can help others, those who are able to lead, and those who can speak in different kinds of languages. 29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all do miracles. 30 Not all have gifts of healing. Not all speak in different kinds of languages. Not all interpret those languages. 31 Continue to give your attention to the spiritual gifts you consider to be the greatest. But now I want to point out a way of life that is even greater.

I cor 13:8 Love will never end. But all those gifts will come to an end—even the gift of prophecy, the gift of speaking in different kinds of languages, and the gift of knowledge.

1 Corinthians 14
Easy-to-Read Version
Use Spiritual Gifts to Help the Church
14 Love should be the goal of your life, but you should also want to have the gifts that come from the Spirit. And the gift you should want most is to be able to prophesy. 2 I will explain why. Those who have the gift of speaking in a different language are not speaking to people. They are speaking to God. No one understands them—they are speaking secret things through the Spirit. 3 But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort. 4 Those who speak in a different language are helping only themselves. But those who prophesy are helping the whole church.

5 I would like all of you to have the gift of speaking in different languages. But what I want more is for you to prophesy. Anyone who prophesies is more important than those who can only speak in different languages. However, if they can also interpret those languages, they are as important as the one who prophesies. If they can interpret, then the church can be helped by what they say.

6 Brothers and sisters, will it help you if I come to you speaking in different languages? No, it will help you only if I bring you a new truth or some knowledge, prophecy, or teaching. 7 This is true even with lifeless things that make sounds—like a flute or a harp. If the different musical notes are not made clear, you can’t understand what song is being played. Each note must be played clearly for you to be able to understand the tune. 8 And in a war, if the trumpet does not sound clearly, the soldiers will not know it is time to prepare for fighting.

9 It is the same with you. If you don’t speak clearly in a language people know, they cannot understand what you are saying. You will be talking to the air! 10 It is true that there are many different languages in the world, and they all have meaning. 11 But if I don’t understand the meaning of what someone is saying, it will just be strange sounds to me, and I will sound just as strange to them. 12 That’s why you who want spiritual gifts so much should prefer those gifts that help the church grow stronger.

13 So those who have the gift of speaking in a different language should pray that they can also interpret what they say. 14 If I pray in a different language, my spirit is praying, but my mind does nothing. 15 So what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 You might be praising God with your spirit. But someone there without understanding cannot say “Amen” to your prayer of thanks, because they don’t know what you are saying. 17 You may be thanking God in a good way, but others are not helped.

18 I thank God that my gift of speaking in different kinds of languages is greater than any of yours. 19 But in the church meetings I would rather speak five words that I understand than thousands of words in a different language. I would rather speak with my understanding, so that I can teach others.

20 Brothers and sisters, don’t think like children. In evil things be like babies, but in your thinking you should be like full-grown adults. 21 As the Scriptures[a] say,

“Using those who speak a different language
and using the lips of foreigners,
I will speak to these people.
But even then, they will not obey me.”

This is what the Lord says.

22 And from this we see that the use of different languages shows how God deals with those who don’t believe, not with those who believe. And prophecy shows how God works through those who believe, not through unbelievers. 23 Suppose the whole church meets together and you all speak in different languages. If some people come in who are without understanding or don’t believe, they will say you are crazy. 24 But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. 25 The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.”

Your Meetings Should Be Helpful to All
26 So, brothers and sisters, what should you do? When you meet together, one person has a song, another has a teaching, and another has a new truth from God. One person speaks in a different language, and another interprets that language. The purpose of whatever you do should be to help everyone grow stronger in faith. 27 When you meet together, if anyone speaks to the group in a different language, it should be only two or no more than three people who do this. And they should speak one after the other. And someone else should interpret what they say. 28 But if there is no interpreter, then anyone who speaks in a different language should be quiet in the church meeting. They should speak only to themselves and to God.

29 And only two or three prophets should speak. The others should judge what they say. 30 And if a message from God comes to someone who is sitting, the first speaker should be quiet. 31 You can all prophesy one after the other. This way everyone can be taught and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are under the control of the prophets themselves. 33 God is not a God of confusion but a God of peace. This is the rule for all the meetings of God’s people.

34 The women should keep quiet in these church meetings. They are not allowed to speak out but should be under authority, as the Law of Moses says. 35 If there is something they want to know, they should ask their own husbands at home. It is shameful for a woman to speak up like that in the church meeting.

36 God’s teaching did not come from you, and you are not the only ones who have received it. 37 If you think you are a prophet or that you have a spiritual gift, you should understand that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 If you do not accept this, you will not be accepted.

39 So my brothers and sisters, continue to give your attention to prophesying. And don’t stop anyone from using the gift of speaking in different languages. 40 But everything should be done in a way that is right and orderly.

Due to my own studies in languages and linguistics, I know the value of this type of education and work. It is zero if the Holy Spirit does not guide the believing linguist.
Although I read the Word in several languages including Hebrew, it has nothing to do with the indwelling Holy Spirit as our guide unless He reveals teaching to us.
Yes, I am fascinated by what I, personally, discover from words not completely translated from the Hebrew, and the absolute correctness of the Word in other languages, II refer to their agreement), but no one need know languages to be in Jesus Yeshua.
Actually I have learned wonderful lessons from some people who are not even versed in their own language because of the Holy Spirit.
Do not destroy yourself with what is falsely called knowledge. The only true knowledge is from the Father and it is eternal

presidente · Jan 4, 2022

DavidTree said:

How could we know this? Where does the Bible say this?

Keep in mind that tongues are uttered, since they involve praying as the Spirit gives utterance.

DavidTree · Jan 4, 2022

JaumeJ said:

AMEN

Let us not forget the words of our Lord spoken to well educated with scriptural knowledge, men:

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

ALL Truth requires us to come to Jesus.
Truth resides in Him and in the Father and in the Holy Spirit.

DavidTree · Jan 4, 2022

presidente said:

Good Morning, You are blessed Today because you, like myself and all of His Children come to Christ as children asking "How could this be?"

We receive the Gifts of the Holy Spirit as HE pours them out when we seek the Father for His Promise = Acts ch1 & 2

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem,
but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

I cannot respond now as i must do outdoor work today.

The KEY to unlocking the Door is always Faith in His Word = Read the following in this order:
A.) Gospel of John
B.) Acts
C.) 1 Corinthians

Will get back to you later - Rejoice Brother for every Good and Perfect Gift comes down from the Father of Light = James 1:17

presidente · Jan 4, 2022

DavidTree said:

I speak in tongues. What I am asking about is where the Bible teaches that the content of what is spoken in tongues is intercession. We know of one instance in the Bible where others understood speaking in tongues and related what was said. They spoke of the marvelous works of God.

presidente · Jan 4, 2022

Examples of tongues as human languages. I used to hear Mark Rutland on the eadio and I met him once.

https://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/Issues/2015/Winter-2015/In-Our-Own-Tongues

CS1 · Jan 4, 2022

presidente said:

I speak in tongues. What I am asking about is where the Bible teaches that the content of what is spoken in tongues is intercession. We know of one instance in the Bible where others understood speaking in tongues and related what was said. They spoke of the marvelous works of God.

1cor 14 &Romans (8:26-27)

Edify · Jan 4, 2022

presidente said:

1Cor 14:13Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsiderb say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
Intercession is only one of the things those with the gift can do.

DavidTree · Jan 4, 2022

presidente said:

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
1 Cor 14:1-5

Holy Spirit language known only to God for our own edification = prayer to God that God delights in and in turn HE edifies us thru it.

JTB · Jan 4, 2022

Just fyi, this thread is resurrected from 2017. There is another, more current thread available.

TheLearner · Jan 4, 2022

CS1 said:

stopped at post 1,036 my wife found me sleeping and is kicking me off the computer.

Today, I hit my head on payment, have the virus and flu, keep falling asleep even while taking a walk.

Tongues???

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