TONGUES false teaching.

[TDidymas]

TDidymas, you clearly have a jibber jabber spirit. Send in you tax free donation for information on how to get rid of it.

Snide comments don't solve anything. Do you have something of value to contribute?

 

[CS1]

Your question is insincere by nature. Both you and I know what Acts 1:8 says. It's your claim that you have attained to it that is what I am questioning. Therefore, stop evading and trying to redirect. Either prove you have the power, or be silent as the apostle Paul commands.

Not at all. It is very much a real question. I do not know what you know about 1:8 Please tell me what was said and who was speaking and what does it mean? If you don't know, fine. I will tell you IF you don't know.

 

[DavidTree]

IMO your questions are not addressing the real issue. The real question is, 'does what people practice today called tongues the same thing as what was done in the NT?' Would you agree with this?

A.) If what is done today is not the same thing as Acts 2, then it is not from God.
B.) The only one I know of doesn't directly say, but has an implication: Heb. 2:4. Since the writer of Hebrews excludes himself from "those who heard," he excludes himself from performing signs and wonders, and ultimately the gift of tongues. Since he also says "those who heard" (directly and literally from Jesus), the implication is that ONLY those people performed those signs. So, by implication, when those people died, it is reasonable to assume that the miraculous gifts died with them.

It's not saying that all miracles ceased, but that those gifts of miracles ceased, which a person had to exercise at his discretion. Gifts given to individuals permanently, not just a one-time event. After all, isn't this the assumption about tongues today? "I have the gift of tongues" means that person has been given a permanent gift to exercise at his own discretion. Do you agree with this?

But then there is the problem of the Corinthian church. Is there any indication that the gifts, including tongues, was given to many individuals? Was it really so prolific as Charismatics claim? Does the scripture anywhere imply it?

I fully AGREE that people are misusing and even counterfeiting Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Let us work together, under the Authority of Christ as our Savior King, and agree with Him who calls us out of darkness.

What we must find out is: Are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for His Body still pleasing and in effect from God for us Today?

PEACE

 

[CS1]

You claim that "they even said Jesus was healed by the power of the devil" - give me the reference, because I think you're making this up.

excuse me the Phaieeses said Jesus healed people by the power of the devil. I had a type-o error

 

[TDidymas]

A.) Intellectually dishonest???
B.) Irrevelent?

Ad Hominen attack are not supportive but undermines your position.

Let's seek to please God and not ourselves.

AGREE = We are not follow false teachers/preachers/religions but only the Truth according to "It is written."

I am only covering what is written for us to embrace and believe in His Word.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

AGREE = We are not to believe what religion says but what God says.

AGREE = misuse of any Gift that God gives us is wrong but that does not make the Gift wrong or the Believer who operates in those Gifts under the obedience to Christ.

I'm not questioning the usage of the gift, I'm questioning the gift itself. If people have false tongues, but are claiming it's the gift of the Spirit, they are taking the name of the Lord in vain. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed and corrected. I ask again, have you read my original post here: https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
?

 

[CS1]

Yet more evasion.

answer my question, you are the poster child of the word.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm not questioning the usage of the gift, I'm questioning the gift itself. If people have false tongues, but are claiming it's the gift of the Spirit, they are taking the name of the Lord in vain. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed and corrected. I ask again, have you read my original post here: https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
?

Before we can even approach the 'analysis' and 'documentation' of spiritual things which very seldom can be measured in physical terms, we must first find out if the Gifts of the Holy Spirit were a 'one and done' outpouring by God.

If, YES - then it's all of satan.

If, NO - then we know, by Scripture, of it's misuse and even fakery.

 

[TDidymas]

excuse me the Phaieeses said Jesus healed people by the power of the devil. I had a type-o error

Ok, did you read what I wrote? It's a repeat of what I said, so what's your point?

 

[TDidymas]

Before we can even approach the 'analysis' and 'documentation' of spiritual things which very seldom can be measured in physical terms, we must first find out if the Gifts of the Holy Spirit were a 'one and done' outpouring by God.

I'm just trying to find out for myself and for millions of other Christians, where does the practice of tongues today come from - is it from God, or from men? We already know the claim. Let's go for the proof. I think this is a good place to start, since tongues is so prominent. If people accepted this task, it could be started immediately. If we had a valid process by which to discern between the real and the fake, I think it would go a long way to solving this controversy. Agreed?

 

[TDidymas]

answer my question, you are the poster child of the word.

You mean what Jesus meant by power?

 

[DavidTree]

I'm just trying to find out for myself and for millions of other Christians, where does the practice of tongues today come from - is it from God, or from men? We already know the claim. Let's go for the proof. I think this is a good place to start, since tongues is so prominent. If people accepted this task, it could be started immediately. If we had a valid process by which to discern between the real and the fake, I think it would go a long way to solving this controversy. Agreed?

You said: "I'm just trying to find out for myself and for millions of other Christians, where does the practice of tongues today come from - is it from God, or from men?"

AMEN - AGREE - Let's find that answer.

Where would you start for the answer?

 

[kaylagrl]

If you haven't read my original post here: https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
please do so, so that you can know where I am coming from. I'm trying to get people to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

So this quote "I spoke in tongues as it is taught by all those denominations," doesn't hold true for A of G. AofG doesn't "teach" people to speak in tongues. While I don't at this moment attend an AofG church, I have most of my life. I have family members that are pastors in the AofG in Canada. If anyone were to "teach" a person to talk in tongues they would lose their licence. Benny Hinn use to be a part of the AofG and he parted ways with them because they didn't hold with many of his teachings. I have never attended the other churches, but I do know Holiness Pentecostal sees tongues as an issue of salvation, AofG does not. I didn't read you post fully because I've heard all the arguments before. I don't see it as an issue of salvation and I don't see arguing with people who have already made up their minds not to change their minds. Waste of time an breath. The only issue I have is when a person says it's done by demonic power or the person is a fraud, then we're going to have a come to Jesus moment. Otherwise, why argue. If it's something you don't want to seek, don't. But don't tar everyone with the same brush, please. That's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[kaylagrl]

So you want people to believe God himself wrote the bible?

No, I want people to believe what the Word says and what Gods says in that Word. I posted Scripture of what God says, either you believe His words or you don't.

Are you serious?

Deadly.

Only a naive person would believe that.

Then I could myself among good company, because the men who wrote it, taught it and believed the Word of God believed it was the inspired words of God Himself. And they took that extremely seriously.

People should teach more realistic material, and I think people would have a better understanding of Christ himself.

There is nothing more realistic than Gods words to use though the Bible I can assure you. They are life and death. Within them is how you understand God/ Christ/Holy Spirit. I hope you go deeper in the Word and you'll be glad you did.

 

[kaylagrl]

I just don't see your logic on how you jump from what I said to your questions. You are obviously making assumptions that don't exist in my posts. Did you read my original post here: https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
Can you see that I'm trying to get people to be a part of the solution, not the problem?

Documenting miraculous acts can be very uplifting and edifying. But merely claiming something is miraculous doesn't make it so. I'm a realist, which means I don't blindly accept what any person says, especially since I discovered I was deceived when I did blindly accept it. Fool me once...

There has been much acknowledgement among Charismatics that there is a false tongues, and I assert that it is much more prominent than people care to admit. Do you agree there has to be a major correction among the churches concerning this issue?

My brother, Thomas was a realist till he put his hands on the wounds of the risen Christ!!

 

[ResidentAlien]

Snide comments don't solve anything. Do you have something of value to contribute?

Nope, that's the best I got.

 

[TDidymas]

Before we can even approach the 'analysis' and 'documentation' of spiritual things which very seldom can be measured in physical terms, we must first find out if the Gifts of the Holy Spirit were a 'one and done' outpouring by God.

If, YES - then it's all of satan.

If, NO - then we know, by Scripture, of it's misuse and even fakery.

I don't agree with the progression of logic here. Firstly, that if the gifts were 'one and done', then it's all of Satan today. Fakery (even that done in sincere belief) is a man-originated and man-centered activity, albeit religious. You can't call it 'all of Satan.'

Secondly, "If, NO - then we know, by Scripture, of it's misuse and even fakery." - if Clement of Rome was still trying to deal with the errors of the Corinthian church 50 years after Paul (as in 1 Clement), it's not so cut and dried.

The reason for the disunity is that the scripture is not so clear. If Paul would have just once mentioned a false tongues, then I think we wouldn't have this problem today. But if the Pentecostal and Charismatic (P/C) churches strictly enforced Paul's instruction in 1 Cor. 14, IMO we wouldn't see such prolific error.

I think the root of the problem is how tongues is defined, and that's why I want to have it examined carefully. If we start seeing it examined, and well-define what is Biblical and what isn't, I think people will begin fearing God again, and stop the nonsense. If there is any authentic gift out there, I'd like to know about it. But if it is all (100%) shown to be counterfeit, then the solution is a no-brainer.

 

[Aidan1]

You can have faith and still be a tad bit more realistic dear

Is faith not realistic?

 

[TDidymas]

You said: "I'm just trying to find out for myself and for millions of other Christians, where does the practice of tongues today come from - is it from God, or from men?"

AMEN - AGREE - Let's find that answer.

Where would you start for the answer?

Did you read my original post here:
https://christianchat.com/threads/tongues-false-teaching.196454/post-4737227
?

In that post, I clearly show how to do that.

 

[TDidymas]

So this quote "I spoke in tongues as it is taught by all those denominations," doesn't hold true for A of G. AofG doesn't "teach" people to speak in tongues. While I don't at this moment attend an AofG church, I have most of my life. I have family members that are pastors in the AofG in Canada. If anyone were to "teach" a person to talk in tongues they would lose their licence. Benny Hinn use to be a part of the AofG and he parted ways with them because they didn't hold with many of his teachings. I have never attended the other churches, but I do know Holiness Pentecostal sees tongues as an issue of salvation, AofG does not. I didn't read you post fully because I've heard all the arguments before. I don't see it as an issue of salvation and I don't see arguing with people who have already made up their minds not to change their minds. Waste of time an breath. The only issue I have is when a person says it's done by demonic power or the person is a fraud, then we're going to have a come to Jesus moment. Otherwise, why argue. If it's something you don't want to seek, don't. But don't tar everyone with the same brush, please. That's all I have to say on the subject.

AoG doesn't teach people how to speak in tongues from the pulpit, but in prayer meetings they certainly do it, as I have heard them do many times. It's a systemic problem. If someone says "speak, but not in English" in order to prompt you to start speaking gibberish, and thereby "prime the pump," then that's teaching people to do it. That's exactly how I got started.

I didn't "tar" anyone. If you read what I wrote carefully, you would see that I'm trying to clean up the P/C movement so that authentic gifts can clearly be seen as they were in the book of Acts. I'm sick and tired of all the claims that have no basis in truth. This is part of my agenda posting here. Just because someone makes a claim, doesn't make their claim truthful. I'm just saying "prove it." And haggling over opinions about what verses of scripture means doesn't cut the mustard, as is shown by 56 pages of debating in this thread.

 

[Pureness]

Is faith not realistic?

Yes. God bless