New argument for Jesus being God

[TheLearner]

"
The quadriliteral name of God,

, which is thus referred to in Josephus, in the Church Fathers, in the magic papyri, and in the Palestinian Talmud (Yoma 40a, below), whence it has passed into the modern languages. Other designations for this name, such as "Ha-Shem," "Shem ha-Meforash," and "Shem ha-Meyuḥad," have frequently been discussed by recent scholars (see bibliography in Blau, "Altjüdisches Zauberwesen," p. 128, note 1, and, on the terms, pp. 123-128). The term "Tetragrammaton" apparently arose in contradistinction to the divine names containing respectively twelve and forty-two letters and formed likewise from the letters Y, H, W, H(ib. pp. 137-146); for only thus is the designation intelligible, since Adonai likewise has four letters in Hebrew.

...



Meaning and Etymology.
It thus becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself

"I will be," a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term "I will be that I will be," or, as in the English versions, "I am" and "I am that I am." The name

is accordingly derived from the root

(=

), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation "Yahweh"; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of "hayah" = "to be" (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14). Modern critics, some of whom, after the lapse of centuries, correct the Hebrew texts without regard to the entire change of point of view and mode of thought, are dissatisfied with this etymology; and their various hypotheses have resulted in offering the following definitions: (1) he who calls into being, or he who gives promises; (2) the creator of life; (3) he who makes events, or history; (4) the falling one, the feller, i.e., the stormgod who hurls the lightning; (5) he who sends down the rain (W. R. Smith, "The Old Testament," p. 123); (6) the hurler; (7) the destroyer; (8) the breather, the weather-god (Wellhausen). All these meanings are obtained by doing violence to the Hebrew text (Herzog-Hauck, "Real-Encyc." viii. 536 et seq.).
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14346-tetragrammaton
"

 

[soberxp]

Hey boss, what do you think of the below passage? I have logged many, many, many Scriptures that state clearly that the "whole world" will be saved, but what about the following? Have you given it much thought? I haven't . . . yet.

Matthew 8:12 NKJV - 12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

My understanding is that darkness is a bottomless pit, and a bottomless pit also has light to penetrate.
Think about you falling into a bottomless pit. You look at the direction of your fall. There is light, but the light will become smaller and smaller with the fall,but still there is a light always.

 

[peldom10]

Hey boss, what do you think of the below passage?........... I have logged many, many, many Scriptures that state clearly that the "whole world" will be saved,........"

Please show one. I certainly have missed it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Please show one. I certainly have missed it.

Sorry for the format. This is a copy and paste from my Excel Spreadsheet. They are in the order of timeline, chronological. You might appreciate the NT verses more than the OT. I'm not saying that I believe in Universalism, instead, these are verses that COULD support the idea.

Jubil 24:11All Are SavedSeed"And in thy seed (of Jacob) shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thy father obeyed My voice, and kept My charge and My commandments, and My laws, and My ordinances, and My covenant; and now obey My voice and dwell in this land."

Psa 145:08-10All Are Saved777NASB20 - "The LORD is gracious and compassionate; Slow to anger and great in mercy. The LORD is good to all, And His mercies are over all His works. All Your works will give thanks to You, LORD, And Your godly ones will bless You."

Isa 25:06-8All Are SavedNASB - "The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain; A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow, And refined, aged wine. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples, Even the veil which is stretched over all nations. He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces, And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken."

Isa 53:06All Are Saved777Tanakh: "We all went astray like sheep, each going his own way" - The next half of the verse? "And the Lord visited upon Him the guilt of all of us."

John 01:29All Are SavedNLT - "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

John 04:42All Are SavedKJV - "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."

John 11:51-52All Are Saved7NKJV - "Now this he did not say on his own [authority]; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad."

1 Cor 15:22All Are Saved777NASB - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

2 Cor 05:18-19All Are SavedNET - "And all these things are from God who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and who has given us the ministry of reconciliation. In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people's trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation."

Rom 05:18All Are Saved777NKJV - "Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

Rom 11:32-33All Are Saved777NLT - "For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone. Oh, how great are God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!"

Col 01:19-21All Are Saved777NLT - "For God in all his fullness was pleased to live in Christ, and through him God reconciled everything to himself. He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth by means of Christ's blood on the cross. This includes you who were once far away from God. You were his enemies, separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions."

1 Tim 02:04All Are SavedKJV - "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

2 Pet 03:09All Are SavedKJV - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

1 John 02:01-2All Are SavedNLT - "My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world."

1 John 04:14All Are SavedKJV - "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

 

[arthurfleminger]

Another good argument for 'Jesus being God' is that throughout the New Testament, the Word of God claims Jesus to be God. And the New Testament can can be considered to be historical fact through common reason. The New Testament was written by witnesses of what were transpiring at the time of Jesus and after His resurrection. The New Testament Gospels and Epistles were written shortly after Jesus' ministry, not hundreds of years later. So they may be considered historical writings, writings by those who actually observed the happenings of Jesus' time.

Let's look at this through common sense. One thing to consider when asking 'Who Wrote the New Testament', the Gospels and letters, it is clear that they were not written hundreds of years after the fact. They are historical documents written at the very latest a few decades after Jesus' death and resurrection. This conclusion can be arrived at with common sense. In the last year of Christ's ministry on earth, around 33 AD, He foretold/prophesized the absolute and utter destruction of Jerusalem, it's people, and the Temple.

That destruction occurred in the year 70 AD, that's an historical fact. Over 1 million inhabitants of Jerusalem were killed and the Temple was destroyed by Roman armies.

You may ask, of what significance is this? It let's us know with certainty that the Gospels and Letters of the New Testament were written before the great destruction in 70 AD. If the Gospels and New Testament were written after 70 AD, the writers would surely have written how Jesus' prophesy had come true.

Yet, for all the importance/significance of the destruction of Jerusalem, not a word or a hint that this event actually happened in the New Testament. That's because the New Testament was written/completed before the destruction of 70AD. Most likely all the Gospels/Letters/NT were written and finished within about 30 years of Jesus death. For sure, they weren't written after the destruction of Jerusalem, they were written soon after Jesus' ascension. This would make them accurate historical records.

Also, scholars agree that the books of the New Testament, as we have them today, are accurate copies of the original writings.

 

[posthuman]

My understanding is that darkness is a bottomless pit, and a bottomless pit also has light to penetrate.
Think about you falling into a bottomless pit. You look at the direction of your fall. There is light, but the light will become smaller and smaller with the fall,but still there is a light always.

dunno why you presume there is light in the pit
the pit you imagine has light, but it's not necessarily so, just because you imagine it that way. in fact it is kinda directly contradictory to the specific terminology here, "outer darkness" -- the 'outer' indicating they are not in the light of the Kingdom.

 

[soberxp]

dunno why you presume there is light in the pit
the pit you imagine has light, but it's not necessarily so, just because you imagine it that way. in fact it is kinda directly contradictory to the specific terminology here, "outer darkness" -- the 'outer' indicating they are not in the light of the Kingdom.

Just because I have seen the bottomless pit and you didn't, so I could imagine it that way.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Just because I have seen the bottomless pit and you didn't, so I could imagine it that way.

Wow. I'd like to hear that story.

 

[soberxp]

Wow. I'd like to hear that story.

Ok, it is a outer darkness, Things that don't exist in this world. Once, I looked at the road from my balcony，and I saw a bottomless pit in the middle of the road,But the strange thing is that cars in this world can still passing through the road,I really saw the bottomless pit in the middle of the road, but the cars passing through the street didn't fall in, but drove past. I also saw workers dedicated to maintaining the bottomless pit.
IT is dark and seems cannot accept light,No light can enter the hole or no light can reach the wall of the hole . It was a whole darkness of monochrome.

But I don't think that can't see the outside light from the bottomless pit inside,because there's always a hole in it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ok, it is a outer darkness, Things that don't exist in this world. Once, I looked at the road from my balcony， and I saw a bottomless pit in the middle of the road,But the strange thing is that cars in this world can still passing through the road,I really saw the bottomless pit in the middle of the road, but the cars passing through the street didn't fall in, but drove past. I also saw workers dedicated to maintaining the bottomless pit.
IT is dark and seems cannot accept light, No light can enter the hole or no light can reach the wall of the hole. It was a whole darkness of monochrome.

But I don't think that can't see the outside light from the bottomless pit inside, because there's always a hole in it.

Interesting. That's a bit hard to understand, but I'm trying to understand it. Did you see this with your own eyes? Was this a physical "pit" that you saw? In other words, were you Blessed, or gifted the chance to see this "pit?" Also, I'm assuming that you were NOT using some hardcore drug like DMT, right?

 

[soberxp]

Interesting. That's a bit hard to understand, but I'm trying to understand it. Did you see this with your own eyes? Was this a physical "pit" that you saw? In other words, were you Blessed, or gifted the chance to see this "pit?" Also, I'm assuming that you were NOT using some hardcore drug like DMT, right?

It was a physical pit I saw with my own eyes,and I don't do drug.It is based on the vision of the physical world, but different. It does not exist in the "real" our world at the same time.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It was a physical pit I saw with my own eyes, and I don't do drugs. It is based on the vision of the physical world, but different. It does not exist in the "real" our world at the same time.

Seeing this pit, did it frighten you? Did it cause you to "wake up" perhaps more than you had already been? Did this experience change your life?

Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread.

 

[soberxp]

Seeing this pit, did it frighten you? Did it cause you to "wake up" perhaps more than you had already been? Did this experience change your life?

Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread.

Well, sometimes I imagine my degeneration, and then I thinking about to fall into the bottomless pit, and then I see the bottomless pit.Does that sound strange?What changed me was that God knew my mind and thoughts.I regret that I didn't go downstairs right away and jump in.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Well, sometimes I imagine my degeneration, and then I thinking about to fall into the bottomless pit, and then I see the bottomless pit.Does that sound strange?What changed me was that God knew my mind and thoughts.I regret that I didn't go downstairs right away and jump in.

Yes, it does sound strange that you would desire to fall into the pit. I've felt the Holy Terror of the Lord . . . trust me, you don't want to be in any evil pit. The Terror of the Lord is the single most frightening thing imaginable, for it is completely spiritual and at an entirely different level of fear than any fear imaginable on this planet. I've thought I was to be raped and murdered as a little boy, which was terrifying. I thought my own father was going to shoot and kill me as I was trying to save the life of my step-mother. I know what true worldly fear is, but this Holy Terror . . . it makes worldly fear seem like eating cake and ice cream.

So, seeing this pit didn't frighten you in a way that would cause you to change your life? You still find yourself struggling with hard sin?

Please, if you ever see this pit again, don't ever think about jumping into it. It will be the biggest mistake you could possibly make.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

friend, I only pick strawberries and bananas.

When I quote a verse I keep the full context in mind. Thanks for your input.

As Paul woud probably say dingleberries instead! Philip 3:8

You should do due diligence when accusing Paul to be closet trinitarian.

Did he not say Jesus had a God?
Ephesians 1:17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him.
Philippians 2:11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
Galatians 1:1Paul, an apostle— sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead—

Did he not say Jesus was raised from the dead by God?
Romans 4:24but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited— for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
Romans 8:11And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you.

Did he not believe the Shema?
1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

i can't help but laugh when people say things like this, as tho they've 'destroyed' doctrine by 'cherry-picking' verses of their own --

the fact that He is the Son and He is the Father doesn't negate the deity of Christ.
it establishes the trinity.

I will not be able to destroy your prison, walls are high, but I am sure God and Jesus will. Their angel says with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him;

Calling the One God , a 3 person committee - Glory to God? I missed the memo.

 

[posthuman]

I will not be able to destroy your prison, walls are high, but I am sure God and Jesus will. Their angel says with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him;

Calling the One God , a 3 person committee - Glory to God? I missed the memo.

The Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. ​

So he looked, and behold! the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed! Then Moses said, ​

“I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”​

So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, ​

“Moses, Moses!”​

And he said, ​

“Here I am.”​

Then He said, ​

“Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” ​

Moreover He said, ​

“I am the God of your father — the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” ​

And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.​

(Exodus 3:2-6)​

​

The Angel of the LORD is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob
the exact visible image of the Invisible
His name is Jesus, the Christ, the Son, Immanuel, Everlasting Father, the Mighty God.
manifest in the flesh

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[awelight]

The idea that Jesus sinned" Peccable' is profane.

The idea, that Jesus sinned is profane, I would agree.

However, the teaching of "Peccability" is more subtle than that. It goes beyond the question of: Did Jesus sin? It goes to the heart of His perfect and Holy nature. (Luke 1:35).

The present Theological question goes something like this: We know that Jesus did not sin but did He have the capacity to sin? In other words, did He have the ability to sin? This is Peccability.

The definition of Peccable, as defined by these English Dictionaries -

Marriam-Webster = Liable or prone to sin : susceptible to temptation, a frail and peccable mortal— Sir Walter Scott.
Funk and Wagnall's = Capable of sin.

This subject, the Peccability of Christ, has become more acceptable in church teachings today. Ancient church history taught that Jesus was "Impeccable" in His natures, (Both Divine and human). However, in modern times, more and more teachers are proclaiming that Christ was/is "Peccable". He did not sin but was capable of sin, just like the first Adam. Sadly, even men like R.C. Sproul did not believe or teach that Jesus was "Impeccable".

The teaching that Christ could have sinned but did not, comes from a misunderstanding of ".. tempted in all points as we are..." (Heb. 4:15). But this verse goes onto say ".. but without sin". This "without sin", does not simply mean He did not sin but rather had no capacity for sin. Any "temptation" or "invitation" to sin, would find no traction in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus would never entertain even a single thought about committing sin.

Jesus said Himself, even a thought about committing sin, would make one guilty of it. (Mat. 5:27,28). Therefore, in order for Jesus to be the acceptable "Lamb of God" and pay for our sins, He had to be without "spot or blemish". This applies to His Person and Nature. One must ask: How could His Divinity, co-inhabit His humanity, if both were not perfectly Holy?

Another problem this raises, is this: If Christ had the capacity to sin, in His humanity, then He took that capacity into heaven when He ascended. He sits now, at the righthand of His Father, with this Peccable nature. Why? Because His body never saw corruption or decay. Thus, it was never put off because it was never exposed to the sin nature. Scripture tells us, our bodies will be put off because the sin nature resides within it. (Rom. 7:23,24).

I don't know about others but I never believed in a Peccable Saviour from the first day God saved me and I believed in His dear Son. Those who believe and teach a "Peccable Saviour" are guilty of the following verse:

Rom 1:23a and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man,...

 

[Knowledged]

I think someone is cherrypicking. A few verses up

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel

New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel

Thank you somebody knows the Scripture!
1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

That’s called order:
God
Christ
Man
Woman

Matt. 17:5 While he yet spake behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

 

[Knowledged]

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, If ye loved me you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Heb. 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice (Himself) for sins forever, sat down on the right had of God. How many more do you want this is hilarious lol!