New argument for Jesus being God

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference: others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.


I really don't know how Christidelphians think they can get away with "jesus is Savior but not God". It makes as much sense as Jews thinking that their savior was going to be someone besides God.
Christadelphains was started by man with humanist philosophy. They deny many Scriptural Doctrines. The Watchtower AKA Jehovah's Witnesses publishes one of their books.

"
Christadelphians do not believe that anyone is saved now, nor do they believe that anyone can have any sense of assurance regarding salvation in this life. This is connected to their belief in the Bible alone which stresses any ability to change as being linked to scriptural knowledge and personal effort. It therefore has some similarities to Pelagianism. They do not believe that God draws people to him of the Holy Spirit. They do not therefore believe in “salvation by grace,” but believe that there is a process based around knowledge and work that leads to salvation.



The process of salvation put forward is the following:



1. Gaining Correct Knowledge.



The correct set of savings beliefs are considered to be those which are summarised in the historical statements of faith, the most widely used being the Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith. It is for this reason that it is sometimes referred to by Christadelphians as “the basis of fellowship.” The body of Christ (or Christians) are considered to be those who have the gospel, which is seen to be consistent with the statements of faith. One phrase often used by early Christadelphians was “the truth as it is in Jesus” because other churches having “false doctrine” were not seen to have that truth.





Gaining the correct knowledge therefore is the focus of the Christadelphain process of conversion rather than a belief that conversion is the work of God. On the one hand they promote the need for an individual search, whilst doing everything they can to influence that person into accepting their full positions and will not accept anyone who comes to any differing conclusions.



Achieving full conviction is considered necessary and this can be an extended process for those looking at becoming a Christadelphian because of the mental challenge of that process.



The Christadelphian belief in a process based upon independence of thought is a natural consequence of an absolute position of the Bible alone without any need for God’s Spirit and needs some thought therefore about the limits of independence of thought and how far that truly is possible.



2. Baptism Through Full Immersion.



Baptism is believed to be what enables one to become a Christian and is often emphasised above the concept of repentance. This is because intellect through correct Biblical knowledge gained through Bible reading is promoted as the way to conviction and a knowledge of God. Emotion and experience are seen to be subjective, rather than playing much of a meaningful role in true conversion.



Baptism is considered ineffective unless the person baptised (no matter how repentant of sin) has a correct understanding of “the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ.” This belief can be shown from the fact that Christians who join from other denominations are usually required to be rebaptised if they have already been baptised. It is not, however, usually required from those who join from other Christadelphian divisions even if the issues were historically (or are considered) salvation matters.



There is a process involved in this which is called, “preparation for baptism” which is to ensure the candidate is true to the Christadelphian positions. These issues are called by Christadelphians “the first principles” and usually have more to do with accepting doctrinal positions than a preparation for living the Christian life. When a person is considered “ready” (they believe these propositions) and has “requested baptism” they are usually “examined.” This is a formal process usually conducted by “examining brethren” who have been appointed by the congregation for the task and will involve asking the candidate a series of questions about what they believe that revolves around the doctrines considered essential and those they believe should be rejected. If the candidate “passes” then “arrangements for baptism” are made. In practice few fail because no one is “put forward for baptism” without being considered “ready.”
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#22
3. Obedience to the Commands of God.



Finally obedience to the commands of God and Christ are considered necessary for salvation. In the main Christadelphians creeds there is a section called “Doctrines to be Rejected” and one of those - number 24 - specifically requires a rejection of the belief “that the gospel alone will save, without the obedience of Christ’s commandments.”



Since assurance is only possible in Christadalphian terms after Christ returns and a physical judgment of everyone, the emphasis is upon the “need to strive” to be “found worthy.” Many wonder whether therefore they will be found “acceptable.”



But We Do Believe in Grace ....



The consistent claim by other Christians that the Christadelphians do not believe in “salvation by grace” but is work-based has led to some defensiveness on this issue and the claim that “we do believe in grace.”



It should be noted that apologetical positons to counter the “no grace” observation generally promote a synchronised version of grace that is not grace at all. Rather grace becomes what God gives when we have been baptised with the right knowledge and have done our best. Even if accepted it raises questions about whether if God forgives gaps in sinfulness, will he not also fill gaps of doctrinal error too that raises questions about the validity of church authority, the limitations of statements of faith and the whole correct knowledge basis of the community.



The main Christadelphain objection that salvation is fully through grace is that it allows a person to lead an immoral lifestyle if they so wish and still be saved. Sanctification or spiritual purity is therefore seen to be as a result of human effort.



No Born Again Experience for Christadelphians



The difficulty in fitting grace into Christadelphian theology is because the whole emphasis is based upon intellectual certainty emotional needs are not considered and there is no concept of emotional as well as intellectual conversion. Christadelphians do not believe therefore in religious experiences, being “born again” and therefore place little emphasis upon ideas that feature strongly in the New Testament that believers become a “new creation,” “have a new heart” or that Christ is “in them” as emotional or spiritual realities.



A former Christadelphian, Branson Hopkins, in “Unmasking Christadelphianism” traces this to John Thomas and his idea of intellectual rather than heart conversion and it is well worth reading what John

Thomas wrote on repentance. Without God actively helping a person to spiritually grow progress depends on theological knowledge and how much we read the Bible as can be seen from the historical introductory statement of the Bible Companion, a Bible reading plan. It is therefore intimately tied in a Christian sense to a consideration of the influence of the Holy Spirit on the heart of the believer.



Christadelphians find any concept of the Holy Spirit working on the heart of the believer difficult because of their focus on being a rational faith based upon proof. They therefore tie any present day working of the Holy Spirit to the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit” and want signs. In this sense it has been noted that in a way the Christadelphians have a faith which rests upon the concept of a remote God. It has also been related to the period of time called “The Age of Enlightenment” and the “Denial of the Supernatural.



It should be noted too that any acceptance of any present day working of the Holy Spirit leads to some very deep and valid questions for Christadelphians, particularly regarding questions about freewill and predestination that it raises.



Historically few Christian groups have absolutely denied the need for the influence of the Holy Spirit in sanctification, although groups vary in how much emphasis they place on different elements such as church authority, the Bible or the Holy Spirit. An historical precedent can be found for placing the emphasis on human effort and freewill in an ancient belief system called Pelagianism, which despite having some theological differences has some practical similarities.





https://christadelphianresearch.com/process-of-salvation
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#23
I think someone is cherrypicking. A few verses up

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
friend, I only pick strawberries and bananas.

When I quote a verse I keep the full context in mind. Thanks for your input.
 
May 22, 2020
2,382
358
83
#24
New argument for Jesus being God that stump a Christadelphian yesterday at the Library.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

ME: In this text the highlighted parts clearly indicate that Jesus is God.

Please post any new proofs you have, thanks daniel
The KJV Bible says Jesus is God and God is Jesus.
What else is needed?

This is the end times....many new deceptions are on the horizon.
Currently we have these false ones since the 1960's (examples);

OSAS (saved without God's judgement)
Universalism (all will b saved)
Baptism not necessary
same sex marriage is ok
homosexuality is ok
etc.
Also
since the 1960's we have these new age religion bibles (examples);

NIV
ASV
NASB

etc....and I assure ...more coming.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#25
Universalism (all will b saved)
If you know Jesus well.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,015
13,635
113
#26
I think someone is cherrypicking. A few verses up

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
i can't help but laugh when people say things like this, as tho they've 'destroyed' doctrine by 'cherry-picking' verses of their own --

the fact that He is the Son and He is the Father doesn't negate the deity of Christ.
it establishes the trinity.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#28
Universalism (all will b saved)
If you know Jesus well.
Hey boss, what do you think of the below passage? I have logged many, many, many Scriptures that state clearly that the "whole world" will be saved, but what about the following? Have you given it much thought? I haven't . . . yet. :)

Matthew 8:12 NKJV - 12 "But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,472
6,726
113
#29
I hope I am not steppping out of plaace. when I add that it estabishes not only the Trinity but it also shines brilliant light pon the decclaration of God to Moses saying, "I will be what I will be."
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#30
I hope I am not stepping out of place. when I add that it establishes not only the Trinity but it also shines brilliant light upon the declaration of God to Moses saying, "I will be what I will be."
I don't recall God ever saying such. Where is this?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,472
6,726
113
#31
From the Burning Bush........The following is one version of this declaration.

“So I will go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers sent me to you.’ They will ask what His name is — what should I tell them?”

God replied to Moses: “'I Will Be Who I Will Be.’ This is what you should tell the Israelites: ‘I Will Be’ sent me to you.” (Ex. 3:13-14)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#32
From the Burning Bush........The following is one version of this declaration.

“So I will go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers sent me to you.’ They will ask what His name is — what should I tell them?”

God replied to Moses: “'I Will Be Who I Will Be.’ This is what you should tell the Israelites: ‘I Will Be’ sent me to you.” (Ex. 3:13-14)
Thanks! I couldn't find the quite through the link you provided, BUT, the footnotes of the NLT include the phrase 'I will be what I will be."

Thanks again. :)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,291
1,110
113
#33
The Book of Revelation - is the revealing of Jesus as God. Jesus states this in Rev. 22:16 below:

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." Rev 22:16
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,399
1,094
113
#34
Thanks! I couldn't find the quite through the link you provided, BUT, the footnotes of the NLT include the phrase 'I will be what I will be."

Thanks again.
My understanding is (honestly, I just heard this on the radio the other day) that "i AM that I AM" is in the present-progressive tense.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,399
1,094
113
#35
There is a process involved in this which is called, “preparation for baptism” which is to ensure the candidate is true to the Christadelphian positions. These issues are called by Christadelphians “the first principles” and usually have more to do with accepting doctrinal positions
As opposed to John the Baptist, who was basically like "yeah, Jesus is coming- so, get in the river".
I don't understand how a church could have anything more complicated than Phillip, when he baptized the Ethiopian, he explained that IS.53 was about Jesus, and said to the guy if he believed with all his heart he could get baptized. I don't remember anything about a pop-quiz.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#36
As opposed to John the Baptist, who was basically like "yeah, Jesus is coming- so, get in the river".
I don't understand how a church could have anything more complicated than Phillip, when he baptized the Ethiopian, he explained that IS.53 was about Jesus, and said to the guy if he believed with all his heart he could get baptized. I don't remember anything about a pop-quiz.
To be fair, I think Phillip likely told the Ethiopian about Abraham and how physical circumcision is a reflection of Spiritual Circumcision. If Phillip had that discussion (and likely did because of the duration of their discussion indicated by the fact that Phillip joined "him" in his chariot), then Phillip outlined exactly what that Spiritual Circumcision represented, which was Christ as the Tree of Life and how reaching out and eating from that Tree grants Eternal Life (to begin with). The act of "eating" from the Tree of Life is a reflection of Christ's Circumcision, the Circumcision made without hands. Again, because Phillip joined the man on his journey is an indicator that their discussion was lengthy, hence, a lengthy explanation of the True Gospel.

As for myself, I would never suggest that anyone receive water baptism if they do not understand Spiritual Circumcision? Why? Because I wouldn't want that person to have the same sense of false salvation that I held for about four decades of my life. I thought I was saved because I professed the name "[j]esus" and because I was water baptized. The Truth? I didn't know who [J]esus was at all. I didn't understand the Purpose of Christ (to redeem us of the Curse), nor the Work of Christ (how Jesus redeems us from the Curse), nor the Effect of Christ (the changed heart which results in a total Romans 12:2 Transformation).

Because the "church" didn't teach me squat about Christianity, I, one who believed he was Saved, became a hardcore alcoholic, sex addict that spend inordinate amounts of money in strip clubs, was verbally abusive and without love to my former wife and step-children . . . was a jerk. I was a wreck! But . . . if you asked me then, I would have told you that I was 100% saved, that there was NOTHING that could separate me from the Love of God, not even my complete lack of obedience. I lived this way because no one taught me ANYTHING about the True Gospel of Jesus Christ. In fact, no one ever has. I had to actually use my Microsoft IT background to help me with my understanding. I began reading the Bible in a timeline, chronological fashion and thus began cataloging Scripture, looking for all important matters that I thought I needed to know. As I began to collect, organize, and manipulate my Biblical data, the True Gospel began to reveal itself. For, I refused to stop asking, seeking and knocking. I gave up the ridiculous idea that I was a self-proclaimed "biblical master" on Eternal Security, feeling that I knew more than most on such Biblical matters. I was STUPID!

The eunuch had a tremendous advantage. He likely had mulled over the Old Testament writings back and forth, thus his basic understanding was already intact. He just needed, however, someone like Philip to come along and put things together in relationship with all that had taken place surrounding the life and eventual chaotic nightmare of Jesus's final days and subsequent resurrection.

So again, if I ever have the chance to baptize a person, I would refuse to do so unless they fully understood the lives of Abraham and Sarah and why physical circumcision was instituted within the example of their lives. If a person refused water baptism after realizing the Truth of Abraham and Sarah, I would consider them to be cut off from the Family of Circumcision. After Christ, to refuse water baptism would be the same as a man refusing to be physically circumcised, for they reflect the exact . . . same . . . thing. They are outward expressions and symbols of Spiritual Purity, nothing more . . . nothing less.

Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,674
5,917
113
#37
Christadelphains was started by man with humanist philosophy. They deny many Scriptural Doctrines. The Watchtower AKA Jehovah's Witnesses publishes one of their books.

"
Christadelphians do not believe that anyone is saved now, nor do they believe that anyone can have any sense of assurance regarding salvation in this life. This is connected to their belief in the Bible alone which stresses any ability to change as being linked to scriptural knowledge and personal effort. It therefore has some similarities to Pelagianism. They do not believe that God draws people to him of the Holy Spirit. They do not therefore believe in “salvation by grace,” but believe that there is a process based around knowledge and work that leads to salvation.



The process of salvation put forward is the following:



1. Gaining Correct Knowledge.



The correct set of savings beliefs are considered to be those which are summarised in the historical statements of faith, the most widely used being the Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith. It is for this reason that it is sometimes referred to by Christadelphians as “the basis of fellowship.” The body of Christ (or Christians) are considered to be those who have the gospel, which is seen to be consistent with the statements of faith. One phrase often used by early Christadelphians was “the truth as it is in Jesus” because other churches having “false doctrine” were not seen to have that truth.





Gaining the correct knowledge therefore is the focus of the Christadelphain process of conversion rather than a belief that conversion is the work of God. On the one hand they promote the need for an individual search, whilst doing everything they can to influence that person into accepting their full positions and will not accept anyone who comes to any differing conclusions.



Achieving full conviction is considered necessary and this can be an extended process for those looking at becoming a Christadelphian because of the mental challenge of that process.



The Christadelphian belief in a process based upon independence of thought is a natural consequence of an absolute position of the Bible alone without any need for God’s Spirit and needs some thought therefore about the limits of independence of thought and how far that truly is possible.



2. Baptism Through Full Immersion.



Baptism is believed to be what enables one to become a Christian and is often emphasised above the concept of repentance. This is because intellect through correct Biblical knowledge gained through Bible reading is promoted as the way to conviction and a knowledge of God. Emotion and experience are seen to be subjective, rather than playing much of a meaningful role in true conversion.



Baptism is considered ineffective unless the person baptised (no matter how repentant of sin) has a correct understanding of “the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ.” This belief can be shown from the fact that Christians who join from other denominations are usually required to be rebaptised if they have already been baptised. It is not, however, usually required from those who join from other Christadelphian divisions even if the issues were historically (or are considered) salvation matters.



There is a process involved in this which is called, “preparation for baptism” which is to ensure the candidate is true to the Christadelphian positions. These issues are called by Christadelphians “the first principles” and usually have more to do with accepting doctrinal positions than a preparation for living the Christian life. When a person is considered “ready” (they believe these propositions) and has “requested baptism” they are usually “examined.” This is a formal process usually conducted by “examining brethren” who have been appointed by the congregation for the task and will involve asking the candidate a series of questions about what they believe that revolves around the doctrines considered essential and those they believe should be rejected. If the candidate “passes” then “arrangements for baptism” are made. In practice few fail because no one is “put forward for baptism” without being considered “ready.”
“Christadelphains was started by man with humanist philosophy. They deny many Scriptural Doctrines.”

every denomination believes they are the ones who understand and all the others deny scriptural truths and doctrines that they understand correctly

but who can agree with the words of Jesus Christ the truth ? To have correct doctrine we only need to do this

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the kingdom of God is all that is going to last of the is world just the people saved through believing the gospel

I’m not saying “ believe he died and rose now your saved “ I’m saying if we believe what he taught and spoke about salvstion about repentance , about entering his kingdom out being saved eternally from death and condemnation ect we’re going to follow those things we believe

we need to let what Jesus taught , shape how we believe in God. It’s truly that simple Of we change our core beliefs our deeds are going to come into obedience because of fixing the root issue in our heart and mind we have to let the teachings of Jesus become how we understand God the father and eternal life

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36-37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that truth frees us from satans snare in our minds and hearts

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be free we have to hear and believe the word of truth

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


to be told the truth from God changes what a believer who hears what he said , thinks about God. It renews our minds and redeems them from sin.


“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭

Hearing and believing Jesus words knowing he is God our savior changes what we think based on the belief part. It means we often have to change what we thought before we heard and learned if Jesus teaches us something we didn’t know and he always does that.

if we don’t go to Jesus and the gospel and believe what he’s saying and promising we’re eliminating his offer to save us by hanging our human sinful mind to a mind like Jesus

The process of hearing and believing the gospel is what allows us to change by faith


“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s hearing and believing Christs word the gospel of the kingdom that renews our mind. He teaches things about God no one else ever taught or knew about God not even Moses. The gospel is the message of Gods salvation offered to us in truth
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,291
1,110
113
#38
...
Genesis 17:14 NLT - "Any male who fails to be circumcised will be cut off from the covenant family for breaking the covenant."
An interesting point about circumcision is it took place on the 8th day after birth. Eight is considered the number of change. And actually the child did not acquire a name until the official act of circumcision. Consider how that factors in with the NT water baptism.

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," Eph. 3:14-15
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,015
13,635
113
#39
Thanks! I couldn't find the quite through the link you provided, BUT, the footnotes of the NLT include the phrase 'I will be what I will be."

Thanks again. :)
this is how you will often find it translated in Jewish writings -- iirc Hebrew grammar does not distinguish between past/present/future tenses, but only perfect/imperfect, that is, actions completed or not yet completed.

we can understand that God is not 'completed' because He is infinite; He is from before the beginning and after the end; the First and the Last. so 'I AM' relats this meaning because He is perpetual, outside of time, time being a creation itself. but "I WILL BE" is also a valid rendering into English, relating His perpetuity in the same way.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,223
1,584
113
68
Brighton, MI
#40
My understanding is (honestly, I just heard this on the radio the other day) that "i AM that I AM" is in the present-progressive tense.
"
The quadriliteral name of God,
, which is thus referred to in Josephus, in the Church Fathers, in the magic papyri, and in the Palestinian Talmud (Yoma 40a, below), whence it has passed into the modern languages. Other designations for this name, such as "Ha-Shem," "Shem ha-Meforash," and "Shem ha-Meyuḥad," have frequently been discussed by recent scholars (see bibliography in Blau, "Altjüdisches Zauberwesen," p. 128, note 1, and, on the terms, pp. 123-128). The term "Tetragrammaton" apparently arose in contradistinction to the divine names containing respectively twelve and forty-two letters and formed likewise from the letters Y, H, W, H(ib. pp. 137-146); for only thus is the designation intelligible, since Adonai likewise has four letters in Hebrew.

...

Church Fathers and Magic Papyri.
The cures, or the exorcisms, of demons in the name of Jesus which are mentioned in the New Testament and the Talmud (see Exorcism) imply that Jesus was regarded as a god and that his name was considered as efficacious as the Tetragrammaton itself, for which it was even substituted. It was in connection with magic that the Tetragrammaton was introduced into the magic papyri and, in all probability, into the writings of the Church Fathers, these two sources containing the following forms, written in Greek letters: (1) "Iaoouee," "Iaoue," "Iabe,"; (2) "Iao," "Iaho," "Iae"; (3) "Aia"; (4) "Ia." It is evident that (1) represents
, (2)
, (3)
, and (4)
. The three forms quoted under (1) are merely three ways of writing the same word, though "Iabe" is designated as the Samaritan pronunciation. There are external and internal grounds for this assumption; for the very agreement of the Jewish, Christian, heathen, and Gnostic statements proves that they undoubtedly give the actual pronunciation (Stade's "Zeitschrift," iii. 298; Dalman, l.c. p. 41; Deissmann, "Bibelstudien," pp. 1-20; Blau, l.c. p. 133). The "mystic quadriliteral name" (Clement, "Stromata," ed. Dindorf, iii. 25, 27) was well known to the Gnostics, as is shown by the fact that the third of the eight eons of one of their systems of creation was called "the unpronounced," the fourth "the invisible," and the seventh "the unnamed," terms which are merely designations of the Tetragrammaton (Blau, l.c. p. 127). Even the Palestinian Jews had inscribed the letters of the Name on amulets (Shab. 115b; Blau, l.c. pp. 93-96); and, in view of the frequency with which the appellations of foreign deities were employed in magic, it was but natural that heathen magicians should show an especial preference for this "great and holy name," knowing its pronunciation as they knew the names of their own deities.

Meaning and Etymology.
It thus becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself
"I will be," a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term "I will be that I will be," or, as in the English versions, "I am" and "I am that I am." The name
is accordingly derived from the root
(=
), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation "Yahweh"; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard "Ehyeh" and "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of "hayah" = "to be" (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14). Modern critics, some of whom, after the lapse of centuries, correct the Hebrew texts without regard to the entire change of point of view and mode of thought, are dissatisfied with this etymology; and their various hypotheses have resulted in offering the following definitions: (1) he who calls into being, or he who gives promises; (2) the creator of life; (3) he who makes events, or history; (4) the falling one, the feller, i.e., the stormgod who hurls the lightning; (5) he who sends down the rain (W. R. Smith, "The Old Testament," p. 123); (6) the hurler; (7) the destroyer; (8) the breather, the weather-god (Wellhausen). All these meanings are obtained by doing violence to the Hebrew text (Herzog-Hauck, "Real-Encyc." viii. 536 et seq.).
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14346-tetragrammaton
"