J
JAPOV
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In both ignorance and arrogance, man cannot even conceive of how far removed he is from the perfection that is God.
Does scripture tell us the law of the Lord is dead?
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Right! The law of Moses were fleshly commands and those commands were never the law, they were schoolmasters, taking people to the law.
But God is truth, God always was and is truth. The ten commandments were written by God.
“You are getting truth all mixed up, it is a matter of separating the spirit of the law from the fleshly commands. “
there’s nothing in scripture that gives anyone the authority to seperate a single command of Moses from Moses law it can’t be changed after he died not a single word.
And I’m actually quoting Paul mostly so it Must be the apostle Paul That’s got it all mixed up ?
you know your question is the law of the lord dead ? You have it mixed up
“For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.”
Galatians 2:19 KJV
“Wherefore, brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
Romans 7:4 KJV
“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,
and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:5-6 KJV
he’s not saying re invent the law he’s saying follow the spirit Christ gave us
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63
Not following the letters carved on tablets of stone but those his spirit writes in our hearts because we believe the gospel.
all the apostles decided this early on because the Pharisees insisted “ Moses law is Christian doctrine it’s thier law “
but you reject thoer decision that the law is. Ot christian doctrine and doesn’t apply to Christians.
You insist somehow I just don’t get it but it’s what they say that matters they say “ we do NOt tell Anyone to subvert your soul and insist Moses law Be applied to any believer it’s a yoke and burden no One can bear “
But it’s a choice one makes but this applies to you even though your not accepting it
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
James 2:10 KJV
And this
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
Galatians 3:10 KJV
Your argument that you get to choose which things of the law apply and which don’t is mixed up sister no one has that right the law of Moses is what Moses wrote until the end of the world.
the gospel is what Jesus spoke until the end of the world
We don’t follow Moses word and get Jesus sacrifice you get Moses words and animal sacrifice that does this
“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
Hebrews 10:3-4 KJV
because of course it’s meant to do just that
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
you can look for the “spirit of the law “ in the law and you’ll find this spirit and name
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
We don’t get to overthrow Moses and that angels judgements in the law and claim we’re keeping it lol …..you either learn what’s in Moses book and jeep
All Of it or the law says you are a transgressor like everyone else and need salvstion
im not aware of a law where we choose what we think applies
there’s Moses law and then there is the law of Of Christ that the ot said would come
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
the law of course had been given through Moses many years before but Jesus is saying his law would come later
it’s best sister to die to the law that brings death and be born of the gospel that gives life
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
Jesus and the gospel represents Gods morality for his children . the law is for these folks not for righteous people born of God
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
The law represents what God tells sinners who do these thkngs not to do them it came only Because man became sinners
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
Galatians 3:19 KJV
the gospel is about being born of God the law is about sinners being put to death
“don’t kill” isn’t a reflection of God it’s what you tell sinners inclined to kill each other.
“Don’t commit adultery or you must be stoned to death “doesn’t reflect anything godly It’s what you tell sinners with lustful hesrts and minds And wandering unfaithful hearts .
“Don’t have any other different false gods or You must be put to death “, isn’t something godly it’s what you tell idolaters known to worship idols
the Ten Commandments are a result of what God told Sinful Mankind not to do
The gospel is how we know God and find life
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
1 John 5:20 KJV
The law written on tablets of
Stone brought death to Sinners
“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit:
for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?”
2 Corinthians 3:6-8 KJV
the gospel of the kingdom
Preached in the world As a witness gives life and salvstion the New Testament
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
We have to look at the gospel to see Gods truth
“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
John 1:18 KJV
“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.”
Matthew 11:27 KJV
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
John 14:6-7 KJV
The law that Moses was given can't be changed, but the commands of the flesh that led to that law can be replaced by giving that law to our hearts.
Not a word of scripture can be changed, it is all truth. Yet Christ said "you have been told" and "BUT I tell you". That is a change. Christ also said he did not change the law or the prophets,. What Christ added was giving the law in our hearts when before it had been given in rules written in stone. It was giving the spirit of the law directly to our hearts and minds.
J
JAPOV
Guest
It's true that without Spirit, there is no faith, and without faith there is no redemption. However, the spirit does not control the man, the man still sins... even in ignorance. The Spirit, as long as the man listens, leads the man to discipline and repentance. The man grows in the Spirit, but will never be able to forgive himself.
The Lord knows this about us, and the Lord gave us the remedy. We are told that our faith is counted as righteousness. We are to have faith in all the truths that God gives us and through repentance, live our lives through that faith. We are not righteous in ourselves, but righteous through Christ.
Couldn't disagree more, all you hear is grace and not of works on every christian TV channel and in most churches.
And look at the state of 'Christians' today? More worldly than ever, adultery is so common place that you'd imagine even atheists are living holier lives, I know of a case where in a SINGLE bible study group, there were TWO cases of adultery going on at the same time, with people who were also in the same bible study group.
Clearly the grace preaching is not working. Joseph Prince and Joel Osteen failed. The Bible doesn't do just 'grace preaching'. When Paul sent the letters to the churches, it wasn't a pure grace message. The book of Revelation letter to the 7 churches most definitely wasn't a grace message.
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Sorry I’m lost . The law of Moses was written in stone commandments and his judgements were all written in a book it’s called the book of the law. In the book are all the regulations pertaining to the tribes of Israel when the lord
Led them Out of Egypt he made a covenant with them through Moses according to everything Moses wrote in his book .
the covenant was conditioned like this and was for isreal In the promised land
“If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
Deuteronomy 30:10, 15-20 KJV
when Moses died just before God had him write his law all he commanded Israel in a book like a will
And testament and then Moses died looking far off into the promised land. His law can’t be changed by us now no one can change it so Jesus fulfilled it by dying for us according to our sins defined by law
for instance Jesus can forgive the adulterer like he does in John chaoter 8
Even though Moses said “ she must be stoned “ because Jesus supersedes Moses he is the one Moses foretold would come speaking Gods word because they rejected hearing it so he promised Jesus
“According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
Deuteronomy 18:16, 18-19
that’s what Jesus was saying here
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
jesus fulfilled Moses prophecy of another to come after Moses whom would speak Gods word , Israel
Prayer not to hear it anymore because they were afraid so they got Moses law.
But in it a promise of a future testator of God
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
Acts 3:22-26
Jesus is who spoke Gods word , Moses spoke a law for sinners Who don’t want to hear anymore of Gods word
The ot is not Christian law
“For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard entreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake”
Hebrews 12:18-21 KJV
that’s a reference to the giving of the Ten Commandments we haven’t come to that law
“And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai. And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.”
Exodus 19:11-13 KJV
“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up. And the Lord said unto Moses, Go down, charge the people, lest they break through unto the Lord to gaze, and many of them perish. And Moses said unto the Lord, The people cannot come up to mount Sinai: for thou chargedst us, saying, Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it. And the Lord said unto him, Away, get thee down, and thou shalt come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest he break forth upon them. So Moses went down unto the people, and spake unto them.”
Exodus 19:16-21, 23-25 KJV
the people plead with Moses to not let God speak anymore to them or they would die so he dropped and promised he would in Christ later. Moses
Law is just The pattern of the reality not the reality but a shadow and temporary glory long past
we didnt come to that law we came to the gospel that invited the sinners to come near and be washed clean by Jesus through faith
“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
Matthew 11:28-
that’s the one Moses promised that would be sent to speak Gods word that they refused to hear
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
The law witnesses this very thing someday the messiah will come said Moses and him you must hear in all thkngs he says those who refuse him will be cut off from the people
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
John 5:39-40, 45-47 KJV
Moses terrified of Jesus many times like that his law always pointed to succeeding authority to Christ when he came forth preaching the gospel of e kingdom
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
Luke 16:16 KJV
Jesus is what they were promising would come with a new covenant and testament
Pilgram said: Sorry I’m lost . The law of Moses was written in stone commandments and his judgements were all written in a book it’s called the book of the law. In the book are all the regulations pertaining to the tribes of Israel when the lord .
My reply: Again, we must know the difference between the law and the earthly commands. The earthly commands were things of the flesh to do to lead them to the law, it was not the law although scripture calls it the law of Moses. These laws ruled the world of those belonging to God until Christ came. Moses wrote the law in stone, Christ wrote it in our hearts. Murder in stone is to physically kill, murder in our hearts is to kill the spirit. Circumcision in stone is to cut flesh, circumcision in the heart is to belong to Christ.
To absolutely verify this we must go to history (history that is truth) to find out what the words law of Moses meant to people of that time, and check scripture to see if it disagrees. It doesn't disagree. The leaders of the Jews had decided that gentiles must obey commands like circumcision and diet. Check scripture telling of Paul's meeting with James over this in Acts. They decided that gentiles must only obey the laws (not commands) that allowed them to be admitted in synagogue so they could learn about the one true God.
My reply: Again, we must know the difference between the law and the earthly commands. The earthly commands were things of the flesh to do to lead them to the law, it was not the law although scripture calls it the law of Moses. These laws ruled the world of those belonging to God until Christ came. Moses wrote the law in stone, Christ wrote it in our hearts. Murder in stone is to physically kill, murder in our hearts is to kill the spirit. Circumcision in stone is to cut flesh, circumcision in the heart is to belong to Christ.
To absolutely verify this we must go to history (history that is truth) to find out what the words law of Moses meant to people of that time, and check scripture to see if it disagrees. It doesn't disagree. The leaders of the Jews had decided that gentiles must obey commands like circumcision and diet. Check scripture telling of Paul's meeting with James over this in Acts. They decided that gentiles must only obey the laws (not commands) that allowed them to be admitted in synagogue so they could learn about the one true God.
J
JAPOV
Guest
Mosaic law was given by the Lord, the Lord does not ever tell man to do something that is against his spirit of the law. The Mosaic laws were fine until Christ came.
The Pharisees' and Sadducees' scripture interpretations did not follow scripture. Christ often scolded them for this. Christ was crucified under their laws, not laws from the Lord.
No. The Ten Commandments are still applicable through the Law of Christ. But the Law of Moses and the Old Covenant are null and void.
That is only partially true. The Law of Moses is NOT fleshly commands at all, since Paul calls the Law spiritual. Misuse or abuse of the Law of Moses is a different matter.
this is what transgressing the law brought the world
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. …..The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6,
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
it holds these folks to account
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane,
for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
that’s what the laws operation is and who it’s for for these folks
“And the Lord said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them:
and I will make of thee a great nation.”
Exodus 32:9-10 KJV
“Ye have been rebellious against the Lord from the day that I knew you.”
Deuteronomy 9:24 KJV
“And the Lord appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.”
“And the Lord said unto Moses, How long will this people provoke me?
and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed among them? I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.”
Numbers 14:11-
They rebelled from the time the commandments were being written by God and Moses broke them in the ground when they built the calf and worshipped it. Until the time every single one of them died and didn’t receive the promise as God decreed in the law to them
The law was for Israel’s intercession not all nations
contrary law for a contrary purpose
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: ( Moses law of exacting equal justice to an offender )
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
Matthew 5:38-39 KJV
it’s contrary commandment to say “ take equal revenge “ and to say “ do not take any revenge “
You can argue it’s not different but that’s different marriage is another perfect example Jesus even tells us why it’s different
“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
Mark 10:2-12 KJV
again that’s different law one says to the hard hearted sinner “ if your not happy when you marry feel free to divorce and remarry “ Deuteronomy 24:1-4
and Jesus says if you do that it’s adultery
It’s contrary because it’s for different purposes the law is meant to make sure you know your a sinner who needs salvstion given by Gods mercy
the Gospel is to teach you the law of light promosed in the prophets you know how we say “ written on the heart “
That’s accomplished by belief if we hear and believe the gospel and let it into our faith it’s going to become part of our conscience because we believe it’s Gods word. It starts to change how we think
“And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
Ephesians 4:23-24 KJV
we want the gospel of the kingdom written on our hearts that’s what it’s for the things written in stone administer death
“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious,
so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”
2 Corinthians 3:
And was for making the word guilty and showing them thier sin destroying self righteousness
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:
that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Pride keeps us from God , the law Shuts that down when we realize we’re sinners too and are condemned by the law. As we see there the law was for giving us the knowledge of sin , holding all
The world guilty and shutting our boasting off the gospel purpose couldn’t be more different it’s about repenting and having sins remitting and forgiven
“And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:47
it’s a new doctrine. NOt the same