Does One Receive the Holy Ghost the Moment they Believe in Jesus?

[infinitekhanol]

Are you aware that forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church mandated the removal of the use of the name of Jesus in water baptism and enforced the use of the phrase in 325 A.D.? The attached image shared by a former member of the Catholic Church, shows an acknowledgement of the change. Sadly churches are oblivious to the fact they are following a man-made tradition not what is clearly confirmed in God's word.

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No, I am not aware. Thank you for making me aware of the source of your opinion or understanding on this matter,

I have just googled this image and found out that it is an excerpt from a book someone wrote. I think, it will be foolhardy on my part to base my understanding on this extract without going through the book itself to ascertain exactly what the facts are . This extract is not enough.

I have not come across any bible version that stated anything different in Mathew 28: 19 than we know it today. Even the Catholic bible contains all accounts of baptism in the name of Jesus as recorded in Acts. What if the Vatican insisted on using only the baptismal fomular laid down by Jesus? What is wrong with that? It is still scriptural. The extract says, the practice became customary only in the 4th century -- it became commonly practiced , not that it was not used at all prior to 4th century. It all depends on understanding.

I can see that the former catholic who made the image available to you with an opinion of his, based his conclusion on his wrong assumption of what the Vatican might have done and not what was done or was not done. So, it requires no comment from me for what I need are facts not assumptions.

I believe one can have a Trinitarian baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost OR in the name of Jesus Or the Lord Jesus. It makes no difference. What we need is proper understanding.

 

[Wansvic]

No, I am not aware. Thank you for making me aware of the source of your opinion or understanding on this matter,

I have just googled this image and found out that it is an excerpt from a book someone wrote. I think, it will be foolhardy on my part to base my understanding on this extract without going through the book itself to ascertain exactly what the facts are . This extract is not enough.

I have not come across any bible version that stated anything different in Mathew 28: 19 than we know it today. Even the Catholic bible contains all accounts of baptism in the name of Jesus as recorded in Acts. What if the Vatican insisted on using only the baptismal fomular laid down by Jesus? What is wrong with that? It is still scriptural. The extract says, the practice became customary only in the 4th century -- it became commonly practiced , not that it was not used at all prior to 4th century. It all depends on understanding.

I can see that the former catholic who made the image available to you with an opinion of his, based his conclusion on his wrong assumption of what the Vatican might have done and not what was done or was not done. So, it requires no comment from me for what I need are facts not assumptions.

I believe one can have a Trinitarian baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost OR in the name of Jesus Or the Lord Jesus. It makes no difference. What we need is proper understanding.

The book is a Catholic publication used for teaching. However, the same information is also contained in many historical encyclopedias, etc. I have included a partial list below for your review.

In response to your question: "What if the Vatican insisted on using only the baptismal fomular laid down by Jesus? What is wrong with that?" Throughout history many denominations have distorted scripture and replaced it with tradition. But the removal of the name whereby we must be saved from water baptism is one of the most egregious. (Acts 4:12) Jesus commanded the use of a singular name and the apostles obeyed His command. If this were not true one must conclude the apostles disobeyed Jesus.


Another thing I would like to point out is that the word states that whatsoever is done in word and deed is to be done in the name of Jesus. (Col 3:17) This applies to prayers in general, prayers for healing, casting out of demons, etc. Why are we to assume that this does not pertain to water baptism as well?


THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, 1899 edition, further supports the “Jesus Name” baptism as the original form: From these passages, and from Paul’s words in I Corinthians 1:13 Was Paul crucified for you, or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times “in the name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”

This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of baptismal confession appear to have been single, not triple, as was the later creed” Page 473.

This encyclopedia continues on the subject of the baptismal formula expounding on Paul’s encounter with the Ephesian disciples of John (Acts 19) who stated, “We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost” and also on Paul’s question to the disciples, “Unto what then, were ye baptized?”

Accordingly, Paul’s question simply implies that Christian baptism could scarcely have been given without some instruction as to this gift which was to follow it.

In any case, it would be exceedingly strange that at this point Luke should not have referred to the three-fold formula, had it been in use, instead of simply saying, “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:5) Page 474


ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA, volume 1, page 473, 1899 edition. Under formula: “In the Name of Jesus Christ or of the Lord Jesus.

The former expression is used in Acts 2:38 and 10:48. The latter is used in Acts 8:16 and 19:5. See also Acts 22:16...From these passages, and from Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1:13 (Was Paul crucified for you, or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”), it is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest (times “in the Name of Jesus Christ,” or in that “of the Lord Jesus.”

This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to be single—not triple, as was the later creed The Bible teaches only baptism in the Name of Jesus. Acts 2:38; 4:10- 12; 8:16; 10:47-48; - 19:3-6; 22:16; Colossians 3:17; Luke 24:46-47.

This page also states:
“IT IS NATURAL TO CONCLUDE THAT BAPTISM WAS IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, OR LORD JESUS.”

 

[Gardenias]

This I know, to whom much is given, much is required..............

If you claim to be so skilled in God's word yet err in one thing, have we erred in all?

We cannot take apart the word and only keep those parts that agree with our own way of interpretation!

How can we say God requires us to be water baptized by such time and formula? How can we say that if you are baptized in the full triune Godhead instead of the given name of Jesus you are wrong?
How do we worship,if we only worship one part?

How can we say oh,that part of the word is for Catholics,and that part pertains to Pentecostals?
Oh wait this says predestined and elect so it must mean those who believe in 5 points of TULIP?

HOW MAY I ASK IS ANYONE PREPARED TO MEET OUR LORD AND MASTER IF WE ONLY RECEIVE OR ACKNOWLEDGE A PART OF GOD?


Who can know the mind and mysteries of God? ONLY the Holy Ghost can reveal the truth to us!

 

[Wansvic]

This I know, to whom much is given, much is required..............

If you claim to be so skilled in God's word yet err in one thing, have we erred in all?

We cannot take apart the word and only keep those parts that agree with our own way of interpretation!

How can we say God requires us to be water baptized by such time and formula? How can we say that if you are baptized in the full triune Godhead instead of the given name of Jesus you are wrong?
How do we worship,if we only worship one part?

How can we say oh,that part of the word is for Catholics,and that part pertains to Pentecostals?
Oh wait this says predestined and elect so it must mean those who believe in 5 points of TULIP?

HOW MAY I ASK IS ANYONE PREPARED TO MEET OUR LORD AND MASTER IF WE ONLY RECEIVE OR ACKNOWLEDGE A PART OF GOD?


Who can know the mind and mysteries of God? ONLY the Holy Ghost can reveal the truth to us!

The word states that all can know if their understanding is correct on any given topic. How? Through the confirmation of at least 2-3 scriptures. Therefore, this principle applies to how a person is to be water baptized. We know Jesus said to baptize in the NAME of... That one scripture that states a name is to be used, is then confirmed by all of the detailed water baptism records in the entire bible. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) To exclude the evidence clearly given regarding the need to use the name of the Lord Jesus Christ in baptism is to refuse to accept the written word as confirmed. Obeying a tradition that was begun some 300 years later is to disobey Jesus' command. Sadly, this is something many fail to understand. The consequence for not obeying God is clearly defined in the word.

 

[lawrence101]

“Jesus was answering Nicodemus' question concerning being born again. Nicodemus asked "how can a man be born a second time when he is old ?”

yeah your argument there doesn’t really hold water

That wasn't an argument, i was simply trying to get you to understand this basic scriptural teaching, you seam to be having a hard time understanding what your reading. That passage has nothing to do with water baptism . Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus what was meant by being "born again". We are all born of the flesh which is referring to the natural birth, we are born again a second time by the Spirit of God.

 

[Wansvic]

That wasn't an argument, i was simply trying to get you to understand this basic scriptural teaching, you seam to be having a hard time understanding what your reading. That passage has nothing to do with water baptism . Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus what was meant by being "born again". We are all born of the flesh which is referring to the natural birth, we are born again a second time by the Spirit of God.

There is a direct parallel concerning the water and Spirit Jesus mentioned in John 3:5. Consider that both obedience to water baptism and receiving the Spirit are stated in each of the messages first given to the Jews, the Samaritans, and the Gentiles. (these groups represent all of humanity) Afterward there are numerous scriptures throughout the word about both topics. Neither ceased to be part of the gospel message.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

That wasn't an argument, i was simply trying to get you to understand this basic scriptural teaching, you seam to be having a hard time understanding what your reading. That passage has nothing to do with water baptism . Jesus was explaining to Nicodemus what was meant by being "born again". We are all born of the flesh which is referring to the natural birth, we are born again a second time by the Spirit of God.

basic doctrine like getting baptized in water for remission of sins ? Yeah that’s a complex one to understand

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water

and of the Spirit,

he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

Pretty basic really how does one get born again ? Gotta be baptized and receive the spirit !!!

 

[lawrence101]

basic doctrine like getting baptized in water for remission of sins ? Yeah that’s a complex one to understand

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water

and of the Spirit,

he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭

Pretty basic really how does one get born again ? Gotta be baptized and receive the spirit !!!

You need to pray for discernment , your understanding of that scripture is way off.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You need to pray for discernment , your understanding of that scripture is way off.

yep We all Should pray for discernment every day brother but , I don’t think so
I think it’s simple. Like this based on believing what the word said

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

…. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They believed what Peter said out baptism “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”

then Again some Christians might respond to Peter “ That’s nonsense apostle Peter no body needs to get baptized in water “

it’s better to not hurt guess at how I want to “ discern” but to just learn what’s already written plainly and believe that

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

……afyerwards Peter says …..Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-44, 47-48‬ ‭

Water and spirit carry two purposes one for remitting sins in death the other for giving new birth in life