How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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HI Itheophilis,
The verse in Thessalonians is a bit strange, especially when isolated from the rest of scripture--all believers are seated with Christ in the heavenlies now, spiritually.But literally, All the dead are asleep in the ground and we see that clearly in other verses. Furthermore scripture says no one has ascended to heaven except for Christ.
"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."--John 3:13
"“Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day."--Acts 2:29
What does the rest of this section say?
…15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.…
No one gets to go to heaven prior to the judgment--the Virgins do not go to the wedding' until the bridegroom comes. The wedding clothes are not put on until the wedding--our imperishable bodies are not given to us UNTIL the judgment when the 'sheep and goats' are separated.
How important it is to see all of scripture as one large tapestry and never isolate verses--I say this often, but it is in the isolation of verses that false doctrine originates.
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Biblical Understanding 101 - If they are asleep in the ground, as you say, How does Christ bring those who died with Him???
1 Thess 4:13-14
Brothers,, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
1 Thess 4:13-14
Brothers,, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
'kay... 
... and so you are saying the (instead of this idea ^ ) that you believe "UNsaved" ppl will ENTER the MK age, having survived the "wrath of God" and all that?? Or what?... what are you saying is YOUR viewpoint instead??
[btw, Charlie24 is pointing out the flaws in the "POST-trib Rapture" viewpoint; How will there be "few" by the time of the end of the trib, to ENTER the earthly MK age... and yet at the END of the earthly MK age there be MANY?? They kad "kids," right?? How? in your viewpoint? Are you suggesting that tons of UNbelievers ENTER the MK age??]
... and so you are saying the (instead of this idea ^ ) that you believe "UNsaved" ppl will ENTER the MK age, having survived the "wrath of God" and all that?? Or what?... what are you saying is YOUR viewpoint instead??
[btw, Charlie24 is pointing out the flaws in the "POST-trib Rapture" viewpoint; How will there be "few" by the time of the end of the trib, to ENTER the earthly MK age... and yet at the END of the earthly MK age there be MANY?? They kad "kids," right?? How? in your viewpoint? Are you suggesting that tons of UNbelievers ENTER the MK age??]
I'm not going to repeat myself--I made myself perfectly clear in my post. Your problem is you are isolating that verse from what the rest of Scripture clearly states. ALL the dead are in the ground until Christ's return.
"26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?”28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! 29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”"--John 9:26-28
"26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?”27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples too?”28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! 29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.”"--John 9:26-28
'kay...
... and so you are saying the (instead of this idea ^ ) that you believe "UNsaved" ppl will ENTER the MK age, having survived the "wrath of God" and all that?? Or what?... what are you saying is YOUR viewpoint instead??
[btw, Charlie24 is pointing out the flaws in the "POST-trib Rapture" viewpoint]
... and so you are saying the (instead of this idea ^ ) that you believe "UNsaved" ppl will ENTER the MK age, having survived the "wrath of God" and all that?? Or what?... what are you saying is YOUR viewpoint instead??
[btw, Charlie24 is pointing out the flaws in the "POST-trib Rapture" viewpoint]
i am making a fresh pot of Organic Whole Bean, Fresh Ground right now, Coffee - you coming over?
Now, back to the question: How does Christ from Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???
You are preaching a very serious error, in direct opposition to the Words of Christ - now dwell on that and hopefully you will open your heart to Scripture and be Set FREE from the spirit of error and religion.
You said: "I know your religious belief system Laura and how it works."
Here you go again David with your false accusations--I always use scripture to support my position--my position does not come from some doctrinal indoctrination as yours does--I have not attended the institutional church in several years. I attended a non-denominational church for a good many years--their problem, along with others, is they are too man centered, however they fortunately do not have all this man made gobbledygook--you are far more religious David, as you are stuck on your denominational false doctrine of the literal 1000 year reign of Christ. Your attempt to call me 'Religious' is a feeble one--I know it makes you feel righteous to send down your 'proclamations' on people and equating your words as the very words of God, but it is a false righteousness--a true believer knows righteousness comes from Christ alone.
Here you go again David with your false accusations--I always use scripture to support my position--my position does not come from some doctrinal indoctrination as yours does--I have not attended the institutional church in several years. I attended a non-denominational church for a good many years--their problem, along with others, is they are too man centered, however they fortunately do not have all this man made gobbledygook--you are far more religious David, as you are stuck on your denominational false doctrine of the literal 1000 year reign of Christ. Your attempt to call me 'Religious' is a feeble one--I know it makes you feel righteous to send down your 'proclamations' on people and equating your words as the very words of God, but it is a false righteousness--a true believer knows righteousness comes from Christ alone.
I'm guessing you believe this passage refers to His JUDGMENT... and I think you believe this occurs on the "24-hr day of Christ's RETURN" at His Second Coming... i.e. Rev19... right?? If so, then how does it come about that 1000 yrs later there are ppl "the NUMBER of whom is as the sand of the sea"--a great many of them... but HOW?? How could such a thing be possible IN YOUR VIEWPOINT? is the question being asked of you... but your answers are not real clear (yet... at least not to me = ) )
Here you go again, David equating Christ's words to yours. I've quoted BIBLE VERSES --open your spiritual eyes and read them.
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."--1st Corinthians 2:14
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."--1st Corinthians 2:14
Laura, no one here is guilty of first degree insults, it all happens in the frustration of the arguments.
No one sits around planning how to insult Laura, it just flows with the disagreeing.
You've got to be the Laura I first met here who appeared to fire back and let it go with her points being nailed.
Easier said than done for sure, but I have seen you do before without taking offence.
Water off a ducks back if we try.
No one sits around planning how to insult Laura, it just flows with the disagreeing.
You've got to be the Laura I first met here who appeared to fire back and let it go with her points being nailed.
Easier said than done for sure, but I have seen you do before without taking offence.
Water off a ducks back if we try.
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Every Bible verse is LIFE to me - even the ones you think are against me, when in fact they support me - Amen.
Love your Brothers, my Sister, just as i am loving You right now.
Now, back to the question: How does Christ from Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???
Love your Brothers, my Sister, just as i am loving You right now.
Now, back to the question: How does Christ from Heaven, bring with Him the Saints who have died and there bodies are in the Graves???
Apparently you have read none of other's comments to me on this forum. I have apologized to you in another forum as well as to others. I know who I am is not wrapped up in me having to be right. And if you go back and look at those forums I have never attacked you or anyone else personally. I do take a hard line on ad hominem attacks as well as Scripture taken out of it's context--and of course all doctrine that I believe to be false.
Shake hands, brother? (I think I need to stop checking the forum before my morning has even begun...time to get some things done--I'm signing off for now!)
Shake hands, brother? (I think I need to stop checking the forum before my morning has even begun...time to get some things done--I'm signing off for now!)
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Did not the LORD start with just Two individuals = one marriage = one pair of male and female.
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
Genesis 6:1
Now if the world multiplied with just Two - how much more will the world be repopulated with (suggestive) a few thousand pairings.
AND - the LORD said that seven women will lay hold of one man = How many babies can come from seven women?
In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
Isaiah 4:1
Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
Genesis 6:1
Now if the world multiplied with just Two - how much more will the world be repopulated with (suggestive) a few thousand pairings.
AND - the LORD said that seven women will lay hold of one man = How many babies can come from seven women?
In that day seven women will take hold of one man and say, “We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!”
Isaiah 4:1