How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2021

Nobody's denying that fact.

"... But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short." is what the verse finishes out saying.

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Charlie24 denies this as do others for they do not see the Depth, and Width and Height and Length of Scripture which are the unsearchable Riches in Christ = a Locked Vault of TRUTH that only HS7 has the combination for.
HS7 checks your heart at the Door and will not let you in for self glory or religious purposes.

PEACE and Good Morning Brother

peldom10 · Dec 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

It appears you have concluded that the 2nd advent is not at the rapture...correct?...but at a later time within the trib. period when Christ comes back to fight the fight referred to as the battle of Armageddon.....the battle conflict between good and evil.

AworkINprogress · Dec 12, 2021

RichMan said:

Dear Brother, Much of what you said is true. But even in great confusion there is hope. When Jesus came on the scene, Israel was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of their deep. And then this light came in and the darkness could not comprehend it, it fled away. Darkness was not gone, it just couldn’t stay in the same place as the light, because it couldn’t comprehend it.

In our walk with Jesus, we will find in the body of Christ both this light and darkness going on. As much as we want to get amongst people that we can all agree, there will always be darkness looking to see if it can get a foot hold in and most times it does because we have to know how to recognize it so we can cast it out.

When Paul went into his ”forum” he’d looked for opportunity. When he went to one city, he found all kinds of statutes for every god on the face of the earth, but an opportunity came knocking when he saw an obelisk (just in case a god was missed) “To the unknown god”. Paul stood in front of this ”Unknown God” and preached the kingdom of God.

Paul was in a place of confusion. A centre of ideas and thoughts. But that is the right place to be because Paul was the only light there. We don’t hear the whole story, Paul could have received some negativity during his speech, but it doesn’t say that, but we can assume because that is common among discussions. We pick and choose our forums and some of us avoid debates because no one is really interested in learning anything, just arguing their positions. So we let the gladiators fight it out.

Your welcome in these forums, and search out those who are amicable and love to love God and His people. We want to learn and grow, but not all do. Some have pride and arrogance and we learn to avoid these hard backed dinosaurs.

iTheophilus · Dec 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

Anyone who has died is already in a spiritual body, right?

(read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14)

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

peldom10 said:

Appears??? The LORD is the One who will Appear.

He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Hebrews ch9

iTheophilus · Dec 12, 2021

Did 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 make sense?

Charlie24 · Dec 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

Tired of arguing it. When you can explain how the earth is repopulated with the one resurrection you claim, then we can talk again!

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

iTheophilus said:

YES and AMEN - they are in their spirits and have been given a White Robe which is a Temporary Covering.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. Rev ch6

The White Robe is not the Finished Work of God for the Saints.

The Finished Word is His Second Coming, bringing the Dead in Him(those in White Robes Rev ch6 and 1 Thess 4:13-14)
for the Resurrection and their Transformation into His Likeness.

1 John 3:1-3 Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.

Laura798 · Dec 12, 2021

peldom10 said:

< Sheesh.

You say I urge you to give scriptures a 2nd look less you find yourself infringed from righteousness..[/QUOTE] < Sheesh.
You say 'there is no language to support your thoughts' <really? even though I have quoted numerous bible verses?
You say< 'The only conclusion I can reach from your thought is that it is a way to project a conclusion of a timed arrival of Christ at His 2nd advent and that is strictly prohibited by scripture. <there is nothing I have said that could even imply such a thing--show me where anything I've written has anything with predicting Christ's second coming.

The Meaning of Numbers: The Number 1000 (also see list of verses using the number 1000)

"First, it should be pointed out that scripture does not speak of “the thousand year reign of Christ.” Revelation 20:4 says, “…and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,…and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Notice that it’s not Christ that reigns 1000 years! It’s those who were killed for God’s sake that reign with Christ 1000 years. There are nineteen (19) Bible verses that declare that Christ’s reign is forever. Revelation 11:15 is one of the nineteen: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”

http://www.scripturerevealed.com/bible-studies/the-meaning-of-numbers-the-number-1000/

"Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”"--John 18:37

"Looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." <seated at the right hand. that means he is reigning NOW. John 18:36

"And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, <we are reigning with him NOW.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever."
_-Isaiah 9:6-7

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

iTheophilus said:

100% Understood and God Glorifying SENSIBLE TRUTH

peldom10 · Dec 12, 2021

RichMan said:

A friend warned me not to come to this forum.
He said there is no discussion, only people preaching what they believe.
A lot of shouting, judging, misuse of Scripture, and very little truth and understanding.
I have not read all the post, but enough that I agree with him.
In Luke, when Jesus sent the 12 out, and again when He sent the 70 out, He instructed them to only stay and teach those who would listen. Those who would not, they were to not waste time on them.
There is a lot of time wasted here that could be better spent.
I have learned over the years that teaching takes time and can not be accomplished when everyone is speaking at the same time.
I have also learned that changing someone's mind on this subject is almost impossible.
Only when a person begins to question what he has been taught and believes will he seek the truth.
I was taught and believe in the imminent, pre-tribulation rapture.
As I began to study, I soon began to doubt what I believed. When I asked those older and wiser, their answers did not satisfy. The Scripture they used was misused, taken out of context, and had their own interpretation placed on it.
Through much prayer and study, I came to the correct understanding.
The anti-christ will come out of Islam.
He will have 1290 days to reign until Jesus comes and the resurrection of all whose name is in the book of life.
There will be no third temple. No 7 year peace treaty with Israel. No pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
I will not debate you. I will not discuss this with you. I will not try to teach you the truth in the atmosphere that is present here. No one will listen. No reason to waste my time.
Just stating what I believe.
This is my first and last post on the subject.

You can state anything you wish but...where is the beef...related to your conclusions of scriptures here?...I speak of Bible support of your conclusions of scriptural meaning.

I conclude you have a weird edition of the Bible as a reference. Try the KJV 1611 edition...the closest thing we have to the original word of God.

Be mindful your conclusion of scriptural meaning is new...never promulgated prior to 1960's....a time of world moral decline beginning in a major way.

iTheophilus · Dec 12, 2021

iTheophilus said:

Hey there, David. Ain’t happening! … cause no pretrib rapture scripture exists.

Those who believe in the pretrib rapture theory and use the 1 Thessalonians 4 verses as proof are just not interpreting these verses correctly.

4:13-18: The subject in these verses is WHERE are the dead (or those who have fallen asleep)? Paul is saying that God’s Word says that everyone who has died is with God (already changed into their spiritual bodies and in heaven—some on the good side of the gulf aand some on the bad side). Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us that all spirits will return to God when we die.

When Jesus returns at the 2nd Coming, all those who are still alive will be changed into spiritual bodies (air). The dead in Christ who have already been changed will, of course, precede those who are still alive on earth in physical bodies because they are already there.

These verses have nothing to do with any kind of rapture theory. They are all about what happens when we die and are words for comfort.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NKJV)

@DavidTree

Does any of this not make sense?

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

iTheophilus said:

All of it 1 Thess & 2 Thess was made very clear by the Apostle Paul and is straightforward without any 'symbolism'.

The only part that does not 'fit' with Scripture is you said the Saints are given their New Glorified Bodies BEFORE the Resurrection.

If that were True then there is no need for a Resurrection - do you understand this?

Here, look again at 1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/died in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Laura798 · Dec 12, 2021

Charlie24 said:

I got back on the forum to respond to Peldom and I see you're up to your old antics again, Charlie--refusing to answer questions. This shows me that you care more about supporting your cockeyed theories than standing on the Word of God. You do know this is why Satan was kicked out of heaven right? Pride was the first sin that ever occurred and I see a lot of that on this forum-- when I call out the prideful and arrogant behavior, they simply turn it around and say it is me--no one will admit it even though their words are here for everyone to see!

We are here to glorify God, and NOT ourselves. I see thru all this false piety. "And they will be like, God, knowing good from evil."--that was the second sin.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
--Isaiah 14:12-15

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2021

DavidTree said:

I thought you were supplying that as support for how you see it being possible for ppl in the MK age to bear children / reproduce (being in their "mortal bodies"), in support of [what I thought was] your earlier point that "unsaved" ppl will ENTER the MK age upon Christ's RETURN to the earth at Rev19 / His Second Coming to the earth (and not merely the "saved" persons who will ENTER it, according to your view [unless I'm remembering this incorrectly about your viewpoint]).

Why do you say that "Charlie24" denies this? I'm not seeing that he does. But why do you think he is denying it?

peldom10 · Dec 12, 2021

RichMan said:

A friend warned me not to come to this forum.
He said there is no discussion, only people preaching what they believe.
A lot of shouting, judging, misuse of Scripture, and very little truth and understanding.
I have not read all the post, but enough that I agree with him.
In Luke, when Jesus sent the 12 out, and again when He sent the 70 out, He instructed them to only stay and teach those who would listen. Those who would not, they were to not waste time on them.
There is a lot of time wasted here that could be better spent.
I have learned over the years that teaching takes time and can not be accomplished when everyone is speaking at the same time.
I have also learned that changing someone's mind on this subject is almost impossible.
Only when a person begins to question what he has been taught and believes will he seek the truth.
I was taught and believe in the imminent, pre-tribulation rapture.
As I began to study, I soon began to doubt what I believed. When I asked those older and wiser, their answers did not satisfy. The Scripture they used was misused, taken out of context, and had their own interpretation placed on it.
Through much prayer and study, I came to the correct understanding.
The anti-christ will come out of Islam.
He will have 1290 days to reign until Jesus comes and the resurrection of all whose name is in the book of life.
There will be no third temple. No 7 year peace treaty with Israel. No pre-tribulation rapture of the church.
I will not debate you. I will not discuss this with you. I will not try to teach you the truth in the atmosphere that is present here. No one will listen. No reason to waste my time.
Just stating what I believe.
This is my first and last post on the subject.

Sigmund Freud says that approach is a ..."hit and run"...mentality. Caused by fear of validity.

DavidTree · Dec 12, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Matthew 22:29-30
Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven."

Matthew 24:22
And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’

Isaiah 13
Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming—
cruel, with fury and burning anger—
to make the earth a desolation
and to destroy the sinners within it.
For the stars of heaven and their constellations
will not give their light.
The rising sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light.
I will punish the world for its evil
and the wicked for their iniquity.
I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant
and lay low the pride of the ruthless.
I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 12, 2021

^ @DavidTree , jfyi I had added to my post after you had grabbed it to quote it (plz see if there's more I posted there than the part I'm going to re-post below):

[part of what I'd added]

Why do you say that "Charlie24" denies this? I'm not seeing that he does. But why do you think he is denying it?

Because you had said...

Charlie24 · Dec 12, 2021

Laura798 said:

I got back on the forum to respond to Peldom and I see you're up to your old antics again, Charlie--refusing to answer questions. This shows me that you care more about supporting your cockeyed theories than standing on the Word of God. You do know this is why Satan was kicked out of heaven right? Pride was the first sin that ever occurred and I see a lot of that on this forum-- when I call out the prideful and arrogant behavior, they simply turn it around and say it is me--no one will admit it even though their words are here for everyone to see!

We are here to glorify God, and NOT ourselves. I see thru all this false piety. "And they will be like, God, knowing good from evil."--that was the second sin.

"How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.'
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
--Isaiah 14:12-15

LOL, good morning Laura! I now see the error of my way, may the Lord forgive me.

I pray that you never fall to these standards in your own ways.

How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Well-known member

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Well-known member

Well-known member