Saved by Water

[SophieT]

I would only say to this that as one who has been baptized in Jesus' Name, I do not believe in the above, that a person who does not speak in tongues necessarily does not have the Holy Ghost.

But I do believe in what a careful meditation of the following verses might reveal to you.

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Here, there is a conditional promise given, to as many as the Lord our God shall call, that they will receive remission of sins and the Holy Ghost if they will fulfill the condition of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Now, the next verse.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If anyone is not called, then they were not predestinated and will not be justified and neither will they be glorified. This goes back to the understanding that those who are called are given the promise of the Holy Ghost. Recognize please that this is a conditional promise. So, if the condition is not fulfilled then the promise is not given. Since the promise is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call, this would indicate that if the condition is not fulfilled, the person has not been called.

Therefore, the person in question has not been predestinated and will not be justified neither glorified.

you can believe what you want

but, as you noted, you cannot tell a person if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

and you cannot tell a person that you must be re-baptized if it was not in Jesus name only

you also seem to be persuaded by Calvinism and I am not getting into that

 

[oyster67]

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Clearly after they have been born again and received the Holy Ghost. We all understand that water baptism has it's place, but only you try to make it a requirement for obtaining salvation. We are saved by faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus and not by any work or sacraments that might follow. How did you get so deeply invested in spreading this lie? Are you a baptismal-tub salesman? Getting salvation wrong is no small issue.

 

[oyster67]

You are contending that baptism isn't in water?

What did John the Baptist baptize in?

Was it not the river Jordan?

Is that not the first mention of baptism in holy scripture?

No, I am not contending that water baptism is not in water.

I'm afraid that you have not been tracking our conversation. I am stating that we are saved by faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus and not by any work or sacrament that might come after.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The point being that they were trusting in their works to save them while practicing iniquity on the side

OK, I get it. You are very stubborn. Jesus' comment about being workers of iniquity was in regard to what THEY said about THEIR works.

And I proved it with Isa 64:6.

not realizing that their iniquities would condemn them in spite of the good works that they did (Isaiah 57:12).

Since their "good works" were done in the flesh, they STINK to God.

Do you really think that good works will save anyone?

 

[oyster67]

Not sure who the We is in your comment. I do not agree with your assessment.

I must leave you to your reality denial, then. I have done all I can do for you. I must go now. Fairwell.

 

[Rebel77]

Since their "good works" were done in the flesh, they STINK to God.

Do you really think that good works will save anyone?

No!!! good works won’t save you, only in God through Jesus Christ can you get saved. No baptism will change this!!

 

[Rebel77]

Baptism seals us as Jesus’ children

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, I get it. You are very stubborn. Jesus' comment about being workers of iniquity was in regard to what THEY said about THEIR works.

And I proved it with Isa 64:6.

As I said before, the fact that they were trusting in their works to save them does not nullify the fact that they were condemned for being doers of iniquity (Matthew 7:23).

Since their "good works" were done in the flesh, they STINK to God.

Do you really think that good works will save anyone?

Nope. But then, I don't think of baptism as being a good work, either.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, I am not contending that water baptism is not in water.

I'm afraid that you have not been tracking our conversation. I am stating that we are saved by faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus and not by any work or sacrament that might come after.

And I am stating that if one is not saved, they can in fact receive remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost when they submit to the ordinance of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins. For that is the conditional promise that is related in Acts 2:38-39.

It is an absolute promise given to those who fulfill the condition of the promise.

So, if there is ever any doubt in your mind as to whether you have remission of sins, or the Holy Ghost, you can remove all doubt by fulfilling the condition of the promise.

 

[justbyfaith]

you can believe what you want

but, as you noted, you cannot tell a person if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

and you cannot tell a person that you must be re-baptized if it was not in Jesus name only

you also seem to be persuaded by Calvinism and I am not getting into that

I certainly was not attempting to purport Calvinism; but the verse in question does speak of predestination; whether you consider that to be a Calvinistic doctrine or not.

I would tell a person that if water baptism saves (and we find in 1 Peter 3:20-21 that it very likely does), then it is water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth that will save (Acts 4:10-12) rather than baptism in titles.

 

[justbyfaith]

you can believe what you want

And you can believe what you want...

Though what you believe certainly has no guarantee of saving you to the uttermost;

While what I am believing does have that guarantee.

 

[oyster67]

And I am stating that if one is not saved, they can in fact receive remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost when they submit to the ordinance of baptism

What a bunch of poop you have gotten yourself into.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Baptism seals us as Jesus’ children

Would you provide a scripture to support this?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[oyster67]

Would you provide a scripture to support this?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Aside from the OT seals and the many kinds in Revelation, we have...

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Obviously not a reference to the baptismal tub.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Baptism seals us as Jesus’ children

My stance on baptism is similar to Wansvic's in that baptism is necessary because it's purpose is remission of sins (a necessary aspect of salvation). I just couldn't think of any verses that state the particular purpose you suggested.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[FreeGrace2]

No!!! good works won’t save you, only in God through Jesus Christ can you get saved. No baptism will change this!!

Amen!

 

[oyster67]

baptism is necessary because it's purpose is remission of sins (a necessary aspect of salvation).

Not water baptism.

I just couldn't think of any verses that state the particular purpose you suggested.

Well, here it is again then...

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

We receive the Spirit and It's Seal the moment we place our faith in the soul cleansing blood of the Lamb.

 

[Wansvic]

let me explain it to you

the WE are all the people who have refuted your Oneness Pentecostal errors

in case there is still anyone who does not know them or perhaps a new person who does not know from whence springs your error, your beliefs include but are not limited to, the following:

if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

a person does not receive the Holy Spirit until they speak in tongues

you conflate the Holy Spirit with water baptism

if you are not baptized in water you are not saved

if you were baptized in water but the person baptizing you said in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you must be re-baptized because you do not believe in the Trinity, therefore, you believe a person must be baptized in the name of Jesus only

the above are the main differences from how most people understand the scriptures

the strangest belief you have, is that even if you are speaking in tongues but have not been baptized in water, you are not saved

The point being made is that the scriptures referenced pertain to water baptism. Do you agree?

Acts 2:38 and 22:16 are indeed baptisms in water in the name of Jesus as other scriptures attest. Post #1747 provides additional proof that baptism in name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Clearly after they have been born again and received the Holy Ghost. We all understand that water baptism has it's place, but only you try to make it a requirement for obtaining salvation. We are saved by faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus and not by any work or sacraments that might follow. How did you get so deeply invested in spreading this lie? Are you a baptismal-tub salesman? Getting salvation wrong is no small issue.

I agree with your comment that getting salvation wrong is no small issue.

 

[Wansvic]

No, I am not contending that water baptism is not in water.

I'm afraid that you have not been tracking our conversation. I am stating that we are saved by faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus and not by any work or sacrament that might come after.

See your comment in #1738 -No water mentioned in Acts 2:38 and 22:16 is what you stated. Both scriptures reference remission of sin as the result of obedience to the command.