Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

Yes.



Yes.

I rejoice that we have found higher ground to agree upon.

As stated
The scripture references pertain to what occurs when people obey God's command and are water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Salvation requires that one's sins be remitted. The word establishes that it is through one's obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that this is realized. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

Rom 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,

 

[oyster67]

You may want to study what the word says about water baptism.

You may want to cease your condescension and patronization.

Either way, I still love you.

 

[Wansvic]

You may want to cease your condescension and patronization.

Either way, I still love you.

I love you too! That is why I am sharing the truth in love. You stated that the scriptures presented had nothing to do with water. My appeal is sincere. Please study it out.

 

[oyster67]

Salvation requires that one's sins be remitted. The word establishes that it is through one's obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that this is realized. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

We have already established that these verses say nothing about water baptism. Someone seems to have run out of gas.

 

[oyster67]

My appeal is sincere. Please study it out.

Your appeal has been pealed and studied thoroughly. Blessings.

 

[FreeGrace2]

According to the word people are not saved who have not had their sins remitted.

That is untrue. The Bible says those who believe ARE saved. How many verses are needed so you can believe that?

It is in one's obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that this occurs. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

That's it. Just stick with a group of people who actually SAW Jesus' miracles yet participated in His crucifixion, all of which has no relevance to anyone today.

When a person believes in Christ, their sins are FORGIVEN. But don't believe my word.

But DO believe God's Word.

Acts 19:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

You should know that when Paul refers to "Scripture" or "the prophets", he is referring to the OT. So nothing has changed between the OT and NT.

 

[Wansvic]

We have already established that these verses say nothing about water baptism. Someone seems to have run out of gas.

Sorry. I Just saw this comment. One of the places we see that being baptized in Jesus' name actually refers to being water baptized as seen in the Acts 10 account. Peter states that it is through Jesus name that sins are remitted and later makes the connection of the name with obedience to water baptism.

Acts 10:43-48

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let's just stick with the local context. In THAT context, these workers of iniquity were vainly trying to earn salvation by what they DID.

Man is able to be moral by his own sinful nature. Atheists can and do exhibit morality. However, the Bible is clear about how God views man's "own righteousnesses": as used menstrual rags!! Isa 64:6.

All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

That's why Jesus called them "workers of iniquity". Their "righteous acts" came from their own sin natures and smelled to high heaven.

Jesus said to them, Depart from me, I never knew you, because they were workers of iniquity.

Also because they were trusting in their works to save them.

However, the fact that the latter thing is a factor does not change the fact that the former thing is also a factor.

 

[justbyfaith]

I respectfully disagree.

The OT sprinkling is a foreshadow of what would later become the real thing. John the Baptist introduced water baptism for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3) And as evidenced by Jesus' own baptism it was a total immersion in water. (Matt. 3:16) And after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection water baptism was commanded to be done in His name. (Acts 2:38) And since individuals are buried with Jesus in baptism one can conclude sprinkling is not a form of baptism. (Romans 6:4)

So, what do you do with Ezekiel 36:26-27? Cut it out of your Bible with scissors? Apply white-out to the verses?

What?

 

[justbyfaith]

Well said. I like that one!

itching ears would like that one.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is pure and utter rubbish. The Bible also tells you to wash my feet and give me a holy kiss. None of these things are causal for salvation. Anything that detracts from the efficacy of the power in Jesus's blood is blasphemy in my mind.



Let us have a look at it then...

Acts
2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Acts
22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

No water mentioned anywhere. We are to be washed in Jesus's name and by His blood.

Please stop detracting and distracting from power of Jesus blood to completely save.

You are contending that baptism isn't in water?

What did John the Baptist baptize in?

Was it not the river Jordan?

Is that not the first mention of baptism in holy scripture?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus said to them, Depart from me, I never knew you, because they were workers of iniquity.

Yes, and I explained what Jesus was referring to; good works from one's sin nature, or one's own righteousness. It smells like used menstrual rags to God. Like Isa 64:6 says.

Also because they were trusting in their works to save them.

Which was my point. "their works" comes from their own righteousnesses, which smell like used menstrual rags to God.

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus said to them, Depart from me, I never knew you, because they were workers of iniquity.

Also because they were trusting in their works to save them.

However, the fact that the latter thing is a factor does not change the fact that the former thing is also a factor.

Upon study of the word iniquity, Jesus' statement in the Matthew account becomes clear. Deviating from the correct path established by God is considered iniquity. The idea that the individuals thought their works saved them is speculation. Jesus explains what the problem was in verse 24. Jesus knows only those who hear and obey His sayings. The people were able to do things in the power of Jesus' name but had not themselves obeyed the requirements associated with being born again.



INIQUITY Definition:

(in-ik'-wi-ti) (
±awon
;
anomia
): In the Old Testament of the 11 words translated "iniquity," by far the most common and important is
±awon
(about 215 times). Etymologically, it is customary to explain it as meaning literally "crookedness," "perverseness," i.e. evil regarded as that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion (from
±iwwah
, "to bend," "make crooked," "pervert"). Driver, however (following Lagarde), maintains that two roots, distinct in Arabic, have been confused in Hebrew, one = "to bend," "pervert" (as above), and the other = "to err," "go astray"; that
±awon
is derived from the latter, and consequently expresses the idea of error, deviation from the right path, rather than that of perversion
(from International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright © 1996, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

 

[Wansvic]

So, what do you do with Ezekiel 36:26-27? Cut it out of your Bible with scissors? Apply white-out to the verses?

What?

The Ezekiel scripture is from the Old Testament and as I said it is a foreshadow of a New Testament reality. Please see my comment that addressed that specifically:

The OT sprinkling is a foreshadow of what would later become the real thing. John the Baptist introduced water baptism for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3) And as evidenced by Jesus' own baptism it was a total immersion in water. (Matt. 3:16) And after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection water baptism was commanded to be done in His name. (Acts 2:38)

And since individuals are buried with Jesus in baptism one can conclude sprinkling is not a form of baptism. (Romans 6:4)

For clarification the last sentence above was meant to point out that when a person is buried they are placed completely under the ground. The parallel of this in water baptism is that the person is completely immersed under the water then brought back up out of the water. Sprinkling someone with water does not have that effect.

 

[Wansvic]

We have already established that these verses say nothing about water baptism. Someone seems to have run out of gas.

Not sure who the We is in your comment. I do not agree with your assessment.

Acts 2:38 and 22:16 are indeed baptisms in water in the name of Jesus as other scriptures attest. Post #1747 provides additional proof that baptism in name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, and I explained what Jesus was referring to; good works from one's sin nature, or one's own righteousness. It smells like used menstrual rags to God. Like Isa 64:6 says.


Which was my point. "their works" comes from their own righteousnesses, which smell like used menstrual rags to God.

The point being that they were trusting in their works to save them while practicing iniquity on the side; not realizing that their iniquities would condemn them in spite of the good works that they did (Isaiah 57:12).

 

[justbyfaith]

The Ezekiel scripture is from the Old Testament and as I said it is a foreshadow of a New Testament reality. Please see my comment that addressed that specifically:

The OT sprinkling is a foreshadow of what would later become the real thing. John the Baptist introduced water baptism for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3) And as evidenced by Jesus' own baptism it was a total immersion in water. (Matt. 3:16) And after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection water baptism was commanded to be done in His name. (Acts 2:38)

And since individuals are buried with Jesus in baptism one can conclude sprinkling is not a form of baptism. (Romans 6:4)

For clarification the last sentence above was meant to point out that when a person is buried they are placed completely under the ground. The parallel of this in water baptism is that the person is completely immersed under the water then brought back up out of the water. Sprinkling someone with water does not have that effect.

I believe that Ezekiel 36:25-27 contains a promise of holy scripture; which is "yes" and "amen" in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20).

It indicates regeneration through a sprinkling baptism.

 

[SophieT]

Not sure who the We is in your comment. I do not agree with your assessment.

Acts 2:38 and 22:16 are indeed baptisms in water in the name of Jesus as other scriptures attest. Post #1747 provides additional proof that baptism in name of the Lord Jesus is in fact water baptism.

let me explain it to you

the WE are all the people who have refuted your Oneness Pentecostal errors

in case there is still anyone who does not know them or perhaps a new person who does not know from whence springs your error, your beliefs include but are not limited to, the following:

if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

a person does not receive the Holy Spirit until they speak in tongues

you conflate the Holy Spirit with water baptism

if you are not baptized in water you are not saved

if you were baptized in water but the person baptizing you said in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you must be re-baptized because you do not believe in the Trinity, therefore, you believe a person must be baptized in the name of Jesus only

the above are the main differences from how most people understand the scriptures

the strangest belief you have, is that even if you are speaking in tongues but have not been baptized in water, you are not saved

 

[justbyfaith]

let me explain it to you

the WE are all the people who have refuted your Oneness Pentecostal errors

in case there is still anyone who does not know them or perhaps a new person who does not know from whence springs your error, your beliefs include but are not limited to, the following:

if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

a person does not receive the Holy Spirit until they speak in tongues

you conflate the Holy Spirit with water baptism

if you are not baptized in water you are not saved

if you were baptized in water but the person baptizing you said in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you must be re-baptized because you do not believe in the Trinity, therefore, you believe a person must be baptized in the name of Jesus only

the above are the main differences from how most people understand the scriptures

the strangest belief you have, is that even if you are speaking in tongues but have not been baptized in water, you are not saved

I would only say to this that as one who has been baptized in Jesus' Name, I do not believe in the above, that a person who does not speak in tongues necessarily does not have the Holy Ghost.

But I do believe in what a careful meditation of the following verses might reveal to you.

Act 2:38, Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39, For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Here, there is a conditional promise given, to as many as the Lord our God shall call, that they will receive remission of sins and the Holy Ghost if they will fulfill the condition of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins.

Now, the next verse.

Rom 8:30, Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

If anyone is not called, then they were not predestinated and will not be justified and neither will they be glorified. This goes back to the understanding that those who are called are given the promise of the Holy Ghost. Recognize please that this is a conditional promise. So, if the condition is not fulfilled then the promise is not given. Since the promise is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call, this would indicate that if the condition is not fulfilled, the person has not been called.

Therefore, the person in question has not been predestinated and will not be justified neither glorified.

 

[justbyfaith]

Since they will not receive the Holy Ghost apart from fulfilling the condition of the promise, it should be clear, since the promise is the Holy Ghost, that the promise will be given only to those who fulfill its condition; for that it is only those who receive the promise who have truly been called; and therefore one must fulfill the condition of the promise in order to receive the promise and thus be counted among them who are called.