How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Laura798]

First you say there is no rapture.
Then you say the Saints rise up at the white horses coming


Now you want the mil to disappear

I've never mentioned the white horses coming. Up until now I have only used the literal verses that clearly and simply state what happens at Jesus' coming. He comes he gathers the elect, he judges, the unbeliever and wicked are destroyed along with the present heavens and earth and then God creates a new heaven and new earth where only righteousness dwells--at that point death is destroyed as we and all that God has created are ETERNAL. There are so many problems with this false doctrine--I pray God will open the eyes of everyone who believes this so they will be ready at His coming--"“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done."--Revelation 22:12

"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. ...1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.""--Matthew 23:29-30

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."--Matthew 24:14

This is Christ's second coming--after this the end comes. We must always test scripture to test scripture--it is in the isolation of scripture that false doctrine originates.

 

[DavidTree]

I've never mentioned the white horses coming. Up until now I have only used the literal verses that clearly and simply state what happens at Jesus' coming. He comes he gathers the elect, he judges, the unbeliever and wicked are destroyed along with the present heavens and earth and then God creates a new heaven and new earth where only righteousness dwells--at that point death is destroyed as we and all that God has created are ETERNAL. There are so many problems with this false doctrine--I pray God will open the eyes of everyone who believes this so they will be ready at His coming--"“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done."--Revelation 22:12

"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. ...1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.""--Matthew 23:29-30

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."--Matthew 24:14

This is Christ's second coming--after this the end comes. We must always test scripture to test scripture--it is in the isolation of scripture that false doctrine originates.

What does the Scripture say the 'End' is?

Is the 'End' literal or symbolic?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Well, let's remember how the LORD often teaches deep truths = from an eternal perspective where HE is the Eternal One.

Since the LORD is from Eternity and is Eternal, time does not effect Him as it does us.

DavidTree, Consider carefully:


Matthew 25:31 - "WHEN the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN [tote] SHALL HE SIT [future tense] upon the throne of his glory:"

--so right there we can establish that this is a "future" event being spoken of ("WHEN" and "THEN" concern TIMING issues);



corresponding with

Matthew 19:28 [see also Luke 22:30,16,18] - "28 And Jesus said unto them [said unto "the 12"], Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration WHEN the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also SHALL SIT [future tense] upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." [note: there are no "twelve tribes of Israel" in the "future tense" sense in the "Amill-teachings" viewpoint, contrary to this Scripture]




So, @DavidTree , this is just a cpl passages among many that showing TIMING and CHRONOLOGY issues that cannot simply be "explained away" by saying, "oh, we just can't grasp GOD'S CONCEPT OF TIME [the GOD-KIND of 'time' we cannot fathom]," because He is actually TELLING us IN SCRIPTURE some very exact things pertaining to that very thing: "WHEN [hotan]... THEN [tote]"<--that means something that we can indeed "understand" when reading what the text actually states.

Since no one is thrown into the Lake of Fire until GWT then HE has a Plan that is not subject to our earthly understanding of Time.

Where does the text of Matthew 25:31-34 (and through to verse 46) SAY that these ("ye CURSED") are "THROWN INTO" that, immediately. It says they "go away unto ETERNAL PUNISHMENT" (i.e. they DIE and the first stop is "HELL / HADES"... and recall that Jesus even had illustrated one being "tormented IN THIS FLAME" at a point in time which clearly PRECEDES the "GWTj, coz there is "STILL TIME" to reach his "brothers" so they wouldn't also "come to this place")...

But yes, as they are told "DEPART [GO / TRAVEL - G4198] away-from [G575] Me UNTO..." this means immediately the SENTENCE being pronounced at that point will be the first leg "of that journey" [G4198] as them experiencing "DEATH" and "HELL / HADES," which at the later time (GWTj) "Death" and "Hell / Hades" DELIVERED UP THE DEAD which were in them (including these "ye CURSED"), to at THAT point be "cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" in particular.






[recall also my pointing out the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], which, in that text, are SEPARATED BY "TIME"... and the FIRST of those TWO "PUNISH" words corresponds with Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, which is also the context of Matt25:31-46 (and its parallels) under present discussion (note that the "SHEEP"/the "righteous" will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies)]

 

[Laura798]

Humility you lack Dear Sister as you have numerous times refuted clear Scripture to hold unto a religious belief system.

And as far as my Testimony of what God has done for me and you assaulting it with your pride:

#1. His Word and His Spirit the Evidence any believer needs for Salvation and understanding
#2. i do not twist Scripture or add or take away as you claim to support your position
#3. You have never embraced the TRUTH of Scripture as to Luke 16:19-31
#4. You exalt yourself over Scripture by refuting anything that opposes your religious belief system of SYMBOLISM
#5. This SYMBOLISM religion that you trust in is your current blindness and hardness of heart
#6. What God has declared as Literal do not deny it with "Symbolism"

How would it assault my pride for you to say ""i have been filled with the Holy Spirit and understand Scripture very well - here is some help for you."
and #3-- You have never embraced the TRUTH of Scripture as to Luke 16:19-31, <really? How so? because I don't believe YOUR gospel?
and this"#5. This SYMBOLISM religion that you trust in is your current blindness and hardness of heart" <never heard of a SYMBOLISM religion. I do know that much of the bible is filled with symbols and we as believers need to understand the difference.
and this: "#6. What God has declared as Literal do not deny it with "Symbolism"" <You, yourself, David are making this proclamation, not God and it's blasphemy to equate your words to God's.

You have much understanding of scriptures, but in this idea of a literal thousand year reign you are wrong and are twisting scripture to support your false narrative. You really seem to be blind to your arrogance and how unchristian-like it is. You piety is false as evidence by what you have written here.

I believe that we should speak the truth in love, but truth we must speak and not be afraid to do so. Again this is a false and dangerous doctrine and I pray you all will see how truly dangerous it is.

 

[AworkINprogress]

When I became a believer and got around Church folk, I discovered that everyone didn’t want to know if I knew Jesus, they wanted to know what position I took regarding the last days.

I remember I was out walking and talking with the LORD and I saw a group of people going into an apartment and one of them noticed me and came over and said, Hey brother, we are getting together for fellowship, do you want to join us? I, knowing the person, said, sure. I went in and everyone was sitting on the floor, it was pretty crowded and then sheets of paper were being handed out and it was some 666 nonsense and I got up to leave. My friend asked what was wrong,I said, I just I gotta go. I was having a holier time walking and talking with Jesus then spending a wasteful evening talking about an Anti Christ when I was enjoying THEE Christ.

I have found all this end time mumbo jumbo to only satisfying the flesh more than edifying the spirit. However, I have found, that seeing it in it’s hisorical setting and Christ having already returned in spirit at the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel having fulfilled all that “concerned Him”., HALLELUJAH, KING OF kings and LORD OF lords, to be incredibly edifying.

My observation among those who held to any position was fighting, even when they agreed. There is no true fellowship. People separated themselves one from another over whatever position they held. There was a lot of hate even, and I thought, this is ridiculous.

I hear so many people tell me to put things in it’s context and perspective, I am still waiting for believers to wake up and do the same with this end time madness and stop believing in whimsical ideas of men and listen to the Holy Ghost for once.

Listening to the Holy Ghost is not listening to the pastor, or our favourite preacher or even reading the bible. It’s actually listening to God speak. Sure the pastor may have some words that might help, but he is not there to teach us anything, he is there to maintain order.

This is how the ministry of teaching operates. We hear from the Holy Spirit first, then it’s confirmed by a word of knowledge, wisdom, and even in the preaching of the word. But, we are only listening for the confirmation of what we already heard from God. If the first part of a preachers message is confirmed and then he gets off track on the rest of it, ignore the rest and keep the first part or wherever in that message is that confirmation. It’s important to have things confirmed because that is how we grow in grace and faith. The ultimate goal is to completely trust in God without doubting. Then we can walk on the water.

Fast and pray for 40 days and ask the LORD one question, “Have you already returned?”

If you truly set your heart to that task and truly have a sincere desire to know, it will probably hit you before you know it.

But prepare yourself to be shocked. Prepare yourself to be undone, stripped of all you have come to know. Prepare what it means to rend your clothes and to clothe yourself in sackcloth and sprinkle ashes on your heard. Prepare to be blown away. Prepare to throw all that you have learnt from churchanity. Prepare to be alone with that revelation because you will be rejected by the majority, but you will be received by the few.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

however, the "7 minutes" was only for relative comparison - to make a point.

Yes, I understood you, there. = )

Thank you for your further explanation of your viewpoint on how you are seeing their perspective, at that point. (As to whether or not they will be cognizant of... what I was asking about in that post.)

 

[DavidTree]

How would it assault my pride for you to say ""i have been filled with the Holy Spirit and understand Scripture very well - here is some help for you."
and #3-- You have never embraced the TRUTH of Scripture as to Luke 16:19-31, <really? How so? because I don't believe YOUR gospel?
and this"#5. This SYMBOLISM religion that you trust in is your current blindness and hardness of heart" <never heard of a SYMBOLISM religion. I do know that much of the bible is filled with symbols and we as believers need to understand the difference.
and this: "#6. What God has declared as Literal do not deny it with "Symbolism"" <You, yourself, David are making this proclamation, not God and it's blasphemy to equate your words to God's.

You have much understanding of scriptures, but in this idea of a literal thousand year reign you are wrong and are twisting scripture to support your false narrative. You really seem to be blind to your arrogance and how unchristian-like it is. You piety is false as evidence by what you have written here.

I believe that we should speak the truth in love, but truth we must speak and not be afraid to do so. Again this is a false and dangerous doctrine and I pray you all will see how truly dangerous it is.

WOW - what arrogance and religious blindness you have to now falsely accuse.

Remain in your religion of Symbolism and arrogance by 'adding and taking away' from God's words.

 

[Laura798]

What does the Scripture say the 'End' is?

Is the 'End' literal or symbolic?

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be."--The Mad Hatter

 

[Laura798]

WOW - what arrogance and religious blindness you have to now falsely accuse.

Remain in your religion of Symbolism and arrogance by 'adding and taking away' from God's words.

David, it makes no sense to accuse me of arrogance when your words are proof of yours. And it is you that are adding to scripture--I have only quoted scriptures.

"None of you should be called the leader. The Messiah is your only leader. Whoever is the greatest should be the servant of the others. If you put yourself above others, you will be put down. But if you humble yourself, you will be honored."--Matthew 23:10-12

 

[DavidTree]

David, it makes no sense to accuse me of arrogance when your words are proof of yours. And it is you that are adding to scripture--I have only quoted scriptures.

My words are true and are against your error of religion whereby it adds to God's words and takes away via 'symbolism'

When i stand before the LORD my words will prove me as truthful for they are His words found in His Holy Scripture and, unlike yourself, i do not add or take away from the Revelation of the LORD Jesus Christ.

Your assault on Revelation chapter 20 with 'symbolism' has failed the proof text of Scripture in the Gospels, in the writings of the Apostles and in Revelation.

 

[Laura798]

My words are true and are against your error of religion whereby it adds to God's words and takes away via 'symbolism'

When i stand before the LORD my words will prove me as truthful for they are His words found in His Holy Scripture and, unlike yourself, i do not add or take away from the Revelation of the LORD Jesus Christ.

Your assault on Revelation chapter 20 with 'symbolism' has failed the proof text of Scripture in the Gospels, in the writings of the Apostles and in Revelation.

<proof text, really? what proof text would that be?

Problems With Proof texting / Isolation of Verses

Many times when someone discusses what the Bible teaches what they may use, even though they may be unaware of it, what is called Proof Text. Proof texting uses certain short passages, many times only a single verse, pulled from the Bible in support of a particular belief or doctrine.

The problem with this method is that the person who is Proof texting usually gives their selected verses a meaning that may be entirely different from what the writer intended. The Bible is written in such a way that most verses cannot be correctly understood in a stand-alone fashion. The context of a particular verse, who wrote it, the time period in which it was written, where did they write it, etc. is needed to arrive at what God intended it to convey.

Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof passages is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such special passages in Scripture are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God.

https://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/definition-of-christian-terms/prooftexting.html

Again, equating your own words with God's is blasphemy--only His Word is Truth.

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."--Luke 18:13

 

[DavidTree]

<proof text, really? what proof text would that be?

Problems With Proof texting / Isolation of Verses
Many times when someone discusses what the Bible teaches what they may use, even though they may be unaware of it, what is called Proof Text. Proof texting uses certain short passages, many times only a single verse, pulled from the Bible in support of a particular belief or doctrine.
The problem with this method is that the person who is Proof texting usually gives their selected verses a meaning that may be entirely different from what the writer intended. The Bible is written in such a way that most verses cannot be correctly understood in a stand-alone fashion. The context of a particular verse, who wrote it, the time period in which it was written, where did they write it, etc. is needed to arrive at what God intended it to convey.

Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof passages is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such special passages in Scripture are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God.

https://www.biblestudy.org/beginner/definition-of-christian-terms/prooftexting.html

Again, equating your own words with God's is blasphemy--only His Word is Truth.

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."--Luke 18:13

You said: "Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof passages is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such special passages in Scripture are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God."

And this is indeed the LIE of the Serpent speaking thru your religion = "Has God really said........"

THANK YOU for this evidence against you and your twisted religion - AMEN

PS: as to this statement "Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God."

The FATHER, the Son and the Holy Spirit all say this:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Follow your 'religious scholars' and their religion of 'symbolism' by which you are currently under their spell.

 

[Laura798]

So - it "works for you" as long as you are not the one who is unwilling to have a disussion based on someone else's effort?

Are you [really that] afraid to address/discuss the real meaning of 2 Peter 3:8 - to the point of making the defensive maneuver [to just] "shoot (thumb) it down and move on" - instead of taking the attitude that you might be able to see something 'in a new light'? (your statement from above)

Are you not doing something very similar to that which you "complain about" above?

I can appreciate what you wrote in the above quote; however, if you are going to do the very thing that you detest - what is that all about?

You are bouncing all-over-the-place in a back-and-forth with others --- did what I posted really scare you that much? Why the brick-wall bazooka reaction?

Are you not feeling "confident" enough to withstand a discussion from another person's POV?

If all you want to do (like most) is "spout your bit" - is that not the same thing as "playing your tape"...???

Whether you realize it or not, it was offered with the friendly brotherly-love intent to edify.

You can take it as though it were harsh - but, I really wish you wouldn't - I really am not in this to have a peeing contest - simple, kind, friendly discussion is all I really desire.

Only, when others start throwing mud-and-rocks - well - we all know it just goes down hill from there...

Let us not throw mud-and-rocks - but, rather, discuss in a manner that will edify - or, politely decline...

I think you are the one throwing 'mud and rocks' here--your words are simply an 'attack' and in the light of what I've shared have zero to do with what I shared with you in an earlier post--you say, " it was offered with the friendly brotherly-love intent to edify." I certainly don't see that here.

I liken yours and other assurance of a literal millennial reign of Christ to John F. Kennedy Jr.'s airplane crash--he so confident (and yes arrogant) in his flying skills and was not trusting the plane's flight controls to tell him his position. In consequence of this he lost his spatial awareness, believing he was flying up into the sky when in fact he was flying down and ended up crashing into the ocean taking his wife and his sister-in-law with him. You all by propagating this false teaching are taking others along with you.

 

[Laura798]

You said: "Proof texting can easily lead to wrong conclusions regarding what is the truth of God. An argument or doctrinal stand that relies heavily on proof passages is ultimately considered weak. In fact, those who preach and teach others based on such special passages in Scripture are generally viewed negatively by true Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God."

And this is indeed the LIE of the Serpent speaking thru your religion = "Has God really said........"

THANK YOU for this evidence against you and your twisted religion - AMEN

PS: as to this statement "Biblical scholars and those who seriously study the word of God."

The FATHER, the Son and the Holy Spirit all say this:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Follow your 'religious scholars' and their religion of 'symbolism' by which you are currently under their spell.

You say, "THANK YOU for this evidence against you and your twisted religion - AMEN.

I can't see how anyone could argue against the article I posted--it's academic, not a a doctrinal point of view.

"Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time."--1st Peter 5:6

 

[DavidTree]

I'm sorry ewq,this should be a HUGE Red flag for all of you.There are countless old testament prophecies about the end times and the apostles asked Jesus what the signs of His coming would be and He told them. There is no way Jesus would leave out something like a 1000 literal year reign. Again neither He nor any of the apostles or the old testament prophets make mention of it.
Again--that should be a HUGE RED FLAG. View attachment 233881

You say, "THANK YOU for this evidence against you and your twisted religion - AMEN.

I can't see how anyone could argue against the article I posted--it's academic, not a a doctrinal point of view.

"Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time."--1st Peter 5:6

Man's 'academics' to the Holy Spirit is like comparing the RCC to the True Church of Christ.

One is visibly seen by the carnal mind as 'christianity' while the True Bride is undiscernable to the carnal eye/mind of academia.

Your 'academia' condemned and crucified the Messiah and still does to this day.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm sorry ewq,this should be a HUGE Red flag for all of you.There are countless old testament prophecies about the end times and the apostles asked Jesus what the signs of His coming would be and He told them. There is no way Jesus would leave out something like a 1000 literal year reign. Again neither He nor any of the apostles or the old testament prophets make mention of it.
Again--that should be a HUGE RED FLAG. View attachment 233881

Laura, turn away from this heresy of which you speak, for the LORD Himself, spoke of the 1,000 Year literal time period in Genesis.

Genesis is the Foundation of Truth for ALL Truth that follows.

If you fail to understand Genesis then your understanding of the REST of Scripture will also be misconstrued and or misplaced.

 

[lamad]

How would it assault my pride for you to say ""i have been filled with the Holy Spirit and understand Scripture very well - here is some help for you."
and #3-- You have never embraced the TRUTH of Scripture as to Luke 16:19-31, <really? How so? because I don't believe YOUR gospel?
and this"#5. This SYMBOLISM religion that you trust in is your current blindness and hardness of heart" <never heard of a SYMBOLISM religion. I do know that much of the bible is filled with symbols and we as believers need to understand the difference.
and this: "#6. What God has declared as Literal do not deny it with "Symbolism"" <You, yourself, David are making this proclamation, not God and it's blasphemy to equate your words to God's.

You have much understanding of scriptures, but in this idea of a literal thousand year reign you are wrong and are twisting scripture to support your false narrative. You really seem to be blind to your arrogance and how unchristian-like it is. You piety is false as evidence by what you have written here.

I believe that we should speak the truth in love, but truth we must speak and not be afraid to do so. Again this is a false and dangerous doctrine and I pray you all will see how truly dangerous it is.

I guess you have not read these:

The Talmud comments:
R. Katina said, “Six thousand years the world will exist and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate (haruv), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11)... R. Katina also taught, “Just as the seventh year is the Shmita year, so too does the world have one thousand years out of seven that are fallow (mushmat), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11); and further it is written, ‘A psalm and song for the Shabbat day’ (Ps. 92:1) – meaning the day that is altogether Shabbat – and also it is said, ‘For one thousand years in Your [God's] eyes are but a day that has passed.’ (Ps.90:4) (Sanhedrin 97a).”

The Midrash in Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer comments:
Six eons for going in and coming out, for war and peace. The seventh eon is entirely Shabbat and rest for life everlasting.[

The Zohar states:
In the 600th year of the sixth thousand, the gates of wisdom on high and the wellsprings of lower wisdom will be opened. This will prepare the world to enter the seventh thousand, just as man prepares himself toward sunset on Friday for the Sabbath.[13]

The Zohar explains further:
The redemption of Israel will come about through the mystic force of the letter “Vav” [which has the numerical value of six], namely, in the sixth millennium…. Happy are those who will be left alive at the end of the sixth millennium to enter the Shabbat, which is the seventh millennium; for that is a day set apart for the Holy One on which to effect the union of new souls with old souls in the world (Zohar, Vayera 119a).

There is a kabbalistic tradition[14] that maintains that each of the seven days of creation in Genesis chapter one corresponds to one millennium of the existence of natural creation.

The tradition teaches that the seventh day of the week, the Sabbath day of rest, corresponds to the seventh millennium, the age of universal 'rest' - the Messianic Era.

Why is it so difficult for some to believe Jesus will have a REAL, literal, 1000 year reign? The Jews and Hebrews have believed this since perhaps the days of Moses or before.

 

[Laura798]

I guess you have not read these:

The Talmud comments:
R. Katina said, “Six thousand years the world will exist and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate (haruv), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11)... R. Katina also taught, “Just as the seventh year is the Shmita year, so too does the world have one thousand years out of seven that are fallow (mushmat), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11); and further it is written, ‘A psalm and song for the Shabbat day’ (Ps. 92:1) – meaning the day that is altogether Shabbat – and also it is said, ‘For one thousand years in Your [God's] eyes are but a day that has passed.’ (Ps.90:4) (Sanhedrin 97a).”

The Midrash in Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer comments:
Six eons for going in and coming out, for war and peace. The seventh eon is entirely Shabbat and rest for life everlasting.[

The Zohar states:
In the 600th year of the sixth thousand, the gates of wisdom on high and the wellsprings of lower wisdom will be opened. This will prepare the world to enter the seventh thousand, just as man prepares himself toward sunset on Friday for the Sabbath.[13]

The Zohar explains further:
The redemption of Israel will come about through the mystic force of the letter “Vav” [which has the numerical value of six], namely, in the sixth millennium…. Happy are those who will be left alive at the end of the sixth millennium to enter the Shabbat, which is the seventh millennium; for that is a day set apart for the Holy One on which to effect the union of new souls with old souls in the world (Zohar, Vayera 119a).

There is a kabbalistic tradition[14] that maintains that each of the seven days of creation in Genesis chapter one corresponds to one millennium of the existence of natural creation.

The tradition teaches that the seventh day of the week, the Sabbath day of rest, corresponds to the seventh millennium, the age of universal 'rest' - the Messianic Era.

Why is it so difficult for some to believe Jesus will have a REAL, literal, 1000 year reign? The Jews and Hebrews have believed this since perhaps the days of Moses or before.

No, I wouldn't have read those--I read only the bible and trusted commentaries. I realize you haven't read my other posts--but Christians who believe in a literal 1000 year reign are in the minority--mature believers do not isolate scriptures but test scripture against scripture. The literal verses do not support this doctrine.

 

[Laura798]

Laura, turn away from this heresy of which you speak, for the LORD Himself, spoke of the 1,000 Year literal time period in Genesis.

Genesis is the Foundation of Truth for ALL Truth that follows.

If you fail to understand Genesis then your understanding of the REST of Scripture will also be misconstrued and or misplaced.

David, I feel like I am speaking to a mormon or a jehovah's witness--no true believer would call me a heretic by believing what Christ said would happen at His coming to the apostles in literal language. You'd be calling 80% of Christians heretics, because there are so few who actually believe in a literal millennial reign. In fact, this is the first time for me to encounter Christians who actually believe it.

It's simple, He comes after the tribulation and IMMEDIATELY, comes His Judgment wherein the unbeliever and the wicked along with the heavens and earth are destroyed. Furthermore, there is nothing in Genesis about a millennial reign.

 

[Laura798]

Laura, turn away from this heresy of which you speak, for the LORD Himself, spoke of the 1,000 Year literal time period in Genesis.

Genesis is the Foundation of Truth for ALL Truth that follows.

If you fail to understand Genesis then your understanding of the REST of Scripture will also be misconstrued and or misplaced.

This has become a fruitless endeavor and is neither edifying to us or others and certainly brings no glory to God. I'm sure he is frowning on both of us now. I won't be responding further to this forum.

"So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another."--Romans 14:9