How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[GaryA]

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Think:

Where were they before they fled away?

 

[ewq1938]

Think:

Where were they before they fled away?

Visually it would look like they fled away like if you were in a fast space ship and you looked out the rear window. In reality they didn't move, John was moving away to the new location where the GWTJ would be held.

 

[Runningman]

I'm sorry Runningman, I can't agree with your buddy on this one!

"From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them" actually means,

The old earth and heaven are passing away, being cleansed, making way for the NEW heaven and earth, Rev. 21:1.

That which was stained by sin, has no more place.

Rev. 12:1 is just 4 verses away and explains what is happening!

So in your view, "From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them" , could be a reference to the day of the Lord?

2 Peter 3:10
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:10-13 is in context of the New Heaven and New Earth also. So the earth and heaven fleeing away could be another way of saying they are destroyed. That would still place the lake of fire (the everlasting fire) somewhere else besides heaven or earth.

Reminder, we're still talking about why Matthew 25:31-46 does not occur on Earth, but is a reference to the GWTJ. It also is about the kingdom on the New Earth, not the kingdom in the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[Laura798]

Dear Sister, i agree that there is some symbolism in Revelation such as the Dragon to describe satan.

The Thousand Year Reign is a literal period of time that God firmly established in Genesis but because of sin, man fell short of it.

PEACE

The hole in that is that Christ comes, He receives His own, He judges the world and IMMEDIATELY after that the heaven's and earth are destroyed based on all the other literal verses. Christ is reigning now and will hand over the kingdom at the end of the age to the Father.--It's as nonsensical to try to fit the 1000 year reign in there as it is to push an elephant thru a keyhole....

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."--Matthew 24: 29-31

"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.--1stCorinthinas 15:24


As I always say, isolation of verses is the breeding ground for false doctrine. I went on at length regarding this in another post. And don't want to be pulled into it again--sorry.

 

[Charlie24]

So in your view, "From whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and no place was found for them" , could be a reference to the day of the Lord?

2 Peter 3:10
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:10-13 is in context of the New Heaven and New Earth also. So the "earth and heaven" fleeing away could be another way of saying they are destroyed. That would still place the lake of fire somewhere else besides heaven or earth.

Reminder, we're still talking about why Matthew 25:31-46 does not occur on Earth, but is a reference to the GWTJ.

You guys are trying the read to much into this! It just simply means what it says.

It's not even a new earth as in brand new, it's refurbished.

"Passed away" in the Greek is "parerchomai" and means to pass from one condition to another.

It never means annihilation. So when Peter said the earth burned up, he was referring to a refurbishing.

 

[DavidTree]

The hole in that is that Christ comes, He receives His own, He judges the world and IMMEDIATELY after that the heaven's and earth are destroyed based on all the other literal verses. Christ is reigning now and will hand over the kingdom at the end of the age to the Father.--It's as nonsensical to try to fit the 1000 year reign in there as it is to push an elephant thru a keyhole....

"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."--Matthew 24: 29-31

"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.--1stCorinthinas 15:24


As I always say, isolation of verses is the breeding ground for false doctrine. I went on at length regarding this in another post. And don't want to be pulled into it again--sorry.

When is the last enemy defeated?

 

[Laura798]

Not sure if it was you or another, I'm thinking Miss Laura, though. See if this rings a bell or sounds a whistle.

John 18:36

"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

Jesus said now is not my Kingdom, but it's gonna be!

Matt. 25:31-32

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This is when His Kingdom will be of this world! Do you recognize when that is?

Ay yai yai--'not from hence' means not from HERE--clearly it is not about time as the subject is the KINGDOM and it says 'from hence'--obviously not talking about time. See the translations below--nearly all say My kingdom is not from HERE or is not of this world or not of this realm.

E
New Living Translation
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

English Standard Version
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

Berean Study Bible
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if it were, My servants would fight to prevent My arrest by the Jews. But now My kingdom is not of this realm.”

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, My attendants would fight that I might not be betrayed to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here."

King James Bible
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

New King James Version
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

NASB 1995
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

NASB 1977
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting, that I might not be delivered up to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

Amplified Bible
Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not of this world [nor does it have its origin in this world]. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting [hard] to keep Me from being handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this world.”

Christian Standard Bible
“My kingdom is not of this world,” said Jesus. “If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I wouldn’t be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible
“My kingdom is not of this world,” said Jesus. “If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I wouldn’t be handed over to the Jews. As it is, My kingdom does not have its origin here.” “

American Standard Version
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua said to him, “My Kingdom is not from this world; if my Kingdom were of this world, my servants would be fighting that I would not have been delivered up to the Judeans, but now my Kingdom is not from here.”

Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, "My kingdom doesn't belong to this world. If it did, my followers would have fought to keep me from being handed over to our leaders. No, my kingdom doesn't belong to this world."

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would certainly strive that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now my kingdom is not from hence.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Good News Translation
Jesus said, "My kingdom does not belong to this world; if my kingdom belonged to this world, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. No, my kingdom does not belong here!"

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus answered, "My kingdom doesn't belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. My kingdom doesn't have its origin on earth."

International Standard Version
Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my servants would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But for now my kingdom is not from here."

Literal Standard Version
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, My officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

NET Bible
Jesus replied, "My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish authorities. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here."

New Heart English Bible
Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I would not be delivered to the Jewish leaders. But now my Kingdom is not from here."

Weymouth New Testament
"My kingdom," replied Jesus, "does not belong to this world. If my kingdom did belong to this world, my subjects would have resolutely fought to save me from being delivered up to the Jews. But, as a matter of fact, my kingdom has not this origin."

World English Bible
Jesus answered, "My Kingdom is not of this world. If my Kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight, that I wouldn't be delivered to the Jews. But now my Kingdom is not from here."

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.'

 

[Laura798]

When is the last enemy defeated?

When Christ destroys everything else at the judgment.

The Order of Resurrection
…25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

Cross References
2 Timothy 1:10
And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel,

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:4
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,' and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

 

[iTheophilus]

Every bit of what you posted in mat 24 is preflood.

What makes you think this, @Absolutely ?

 

[DavidTree]

When Christ destroys everything else at the judgment.

The Order of Resurrection
…25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

Cross References
2 Timothy 1:10
And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel,

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:4
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,' and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

AMEN - After the Thousand Years are expired whereby satan is loosed from being gagged, bound and locked up in prison.

When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

SIN temporarily derailed God's Plan in Genesis for man to live and walk with Him for a literal One Thousand Year Period of Time.

GOD will fulfill His Plan thru JESUS and His Wife beginning with His Second Coming.

 

[Absolutely]

If they had dirty robes at the time of his coming, then were they actually saved to begin with?

How did they wash their robes? Aren't we washed and clean in the blood of the Lamb the instance we are truly saved?

It says they washed their robes in the blood.

The blood is "now" blood, not just " past".
It is called repentance.

Jesus talking to christians.. Blood bought believers;

Rev 2
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent

Think of it.
" lost their first love"
Ran out of oil.
Jesus even invokes that very dynamic " candlestick".

It actually reads " lampstand"

Interesting and fascinating once we turn over all the "rocks"

 

[Absolutely]

What makes you think this, @Absolutely ?

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

preflood...just like it says
prejudgement
pre 4 horsemen wrath
pretrib

not at all rev 19
the second coming is not the rapture.

 

[DavidTree]

When Christ destroys everything else at the judgment.

The Order of Resurrection
…25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

Cross References
2 Timothy 1:10
And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel,

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:4
He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,' and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

And since we are all waiting for His Second Coming, then we absolutely know that this literal Thousand Year Period has not yet begun.

 

[DavidTree]

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

preflood...just like it says
prejudgement
pre 4 horsemen wrath
pretrib

not at all rev 19
the second coming is not the rapture.

The four Horseman are not the Wrath of God so there will be no Second Coming there just as Revelation commands us.

 

[Absolutely]

What I don't get is:

You have people saying because the word "virgin" is used that means the 5 foolish are saved.

Even though, the bridegroom said He didn't even know them.

Yet, some are saying they were "virgins", so they were saved...holy, clean, undefiled, unspotted etc....

And then they say... they were "left behind" because their robes were dirty and had to go clean them....Then the bridegroom is going to come back and get them.... Even though the scripture says nothing at all to that effect.

So, what kind of sense does that even make????...I mean really.

Why do you mischaracterise what i am saying?

Jesus DOES NOT RETURN for the foolish. Nowhere does it say that.
Nowhere have i said that.

They are the innumerable number.in heaven, that John saw before the throne.
They are martyrs.
They all die refusing the mark.
They CAME OUT OF the gt.
That AUTOMATICALLY makes them martyrs.

 

[Absolutely]

There is no valid reason to tell people virgins with an S means it is plural. Everyone already knows what the S means.

Yes
David is the fore runner of Jesus.
David had many wives.
Jesus will have us as wives.
No brainer

 

[iTheophilus]

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

preflood...just like it says
prejudgement
pre 4 horsemen wrath
pretrib

not at all rev 19
the second coming is not the rapture.

Matthew 24:37-39

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Absolutely]

I didn't miss it.

I've stated in past posts that "Abs" believes in the "PARTIAL rapture theory" which I've stated I believe does NOT hold up under scrutiny and is not biblical.

I disagree with Abs. = )


...and I did say there are some "pre-tribbers" (not being "partial-rapturists") in this thread who see this passage as a "rapture passage"... but a great many pre-tribbers (such as myself) do NOT believe this passage speaks to "our Rapture," but to His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19) instead... and their ENTRANCE (or not) into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom ("the wedding FEAST / SUPPER," the context of this passage--not who He is coming to "MARRY" [there is NO "bride / wife [singular]" being spoken of in this passage... He is not coming to MARRY *FIVE* VirginS]... This is not the "MARRIAGE" itself [which pertains to the "Virgin [SINGULAR]" 2Cor11:2 who is the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" Rev19:7])

You have no point.
The 5 wise went into the marrige bedroom
Chamber
Room
Or whatever you want to call a structure with a door.

I know what you are getting at.

But it is so complex and it is, amazingly, hinged on " when the groom returns from the wedding"

Well in the pretrib rapture ,Jesus comes FROM THE WEDDING IN HEAVEN, to earth, to fetch his bride.

So yes the groom comes from the wedding to earth.

There is no millineal wedding.
It is in heaven as Jesus declared at the last supper.

 

[iTheophilus]

…. In other words, @Absolutely, the events of Genesis 6 will repeat themselves in our generation!

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24:37-39

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

wow it really is after the flood that noah gets in the ark.
So wow..the "one taken" is at the second coming on horses AFTER the flood.

Oh wait

You left out context


Even though i blew it up for you.