I have already shown you that the Church is raptured BEFORE the anti-christ is revealed!
What do I have to do for you to see that? Clearly the Church is taken out of the way before the anti-christ can be revealed.
How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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I have already shown you that the Church is raptured BEFORE the anti-christ is revealed!
What do I have to do for you to see that? Clearly the Church is taken out of the way before the anti-christ can be revealed.
This is completely wrong as there is the word 'and' that directly connects to the gathering together to Christ.
TRUTH 101 - There cannot be a gathering together unto Christ until His Coming.
The Apostle Paul is reminding the Church of what he told/wrote to them in 1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
i CLEARLY SEE now what is going on here - You, Charlie24 have no desire for Truth.
You have a idol in your heart and you will do anything to keep it there.
As i said before, you are in a dark place.
This is not the Second Coming! It is the Rapture, the gathering in the air that takes the believers out of the way before the antichrist is revealed. The entire argument is over the coming in the air and the Second Coming when He touches down on earth to destroy the anti-christ.
Oh gee, I didn't know all this would come from disagreeing.
And I showed you that Paul said the rapture happens AFTER the man of sin is revealed. You are wrong and Paul is right.
No he is not. They go together as a single "operative" statement that is later described "collectively" in the phrase/clause 'as that the day of Christ is at hand'.
Paul did not say that! I have shown you that Paul said in 2 Thes. 4 that the anti-christ is revealed after the church is taken away.
Yes he did:
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the rapture)
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, (the day of the rapture) except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul is telling them don't be "troubled" as to the Day of Christ is come by confusing the Second Coming and the Rapture.
Then he tells them the Church will be raptured out before the Second Coming! 2 Thes. 2.
You are totally misunderstanding this scripture. What is it that Paul says "will not come" until the falling away first?
It is the Second Coming of Christ, the falling away is the Rapture! It's the "departure" we discussed in the apostasy interpretation.
Paul says the rapture will not come until after the man of sin is revealed. Denying that means you are not reading the passage correctly. That's Pre-trib in a nutshell.
You are disagreeing with straight forward Scripture that needs no interpretation.
You called the Lord, the Holy Spirit and the Apostles "false witnesses" = your Post #3,929
You have not demonstrated any form of conducive self evaluation of your pre-trib against that which is written.
When studying Scripture, everyone must allow Scripture to correct our position when there is clear contradiction.
The theory of pre-trib is in clear contradiction of the exact words of the Lord, the Apostles and the Prophets.
That is your second-level supposition based on your first-level assumption that the 'falling away' means "the church is taken away"...
You did not arrive at that conclusion; rather, you started with it and wrapped everything around it. (made everything else conform to it)
It is a very common practice among 'pre-trib' folks.
To give the benefit of the doubt would be to say that most of them do not [even] realize that they are doing it.
If you make the falling away the rapture then this is what you are making Paul say
Concerning the rapture that day will not come unless a rapture has come first ... does it make sense?
OK, show us who "he" is in 2Thes. 2:7. This "he" is taken out of the way, and then the anti-christ is revealed.
Who is "he?"
Paul's discussion is only concerned with one 'event' - not two. And, that event is 'the day of Christ'.